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#117595 - 12/02/18 09:42 AM National Socialism
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
I have had an interest in the third reich for well over 20 years. Now I do not mean that I am a nazi, this is a genuine interest.
A lot of the philosophy of the nazi party, I agree with. In fact, probably the only part I disagree with is the racism.
Now, a nation that was on its knees for years and grew strong enough to almost rule the world in the space of a few years? Pretty efficient and effective political strength.
I'm not sure how many of you have read Mein Kampf, which is a very interesting read by the way, but some of Hitler's ideas were fantastic. One of my favourites was his idea of imprisoning anyone to lazy to work, and sending them to a Labour camp. Once released, they were expected to get a job within a certain time period, and if they didn't, back to the labour camp to work for free. The same went for those constantly resigning from jobs with little reason.
The other thing I like was the justice system of nazi Germany. Basically, if you had committed a crime, you were no way going to walk free due to some legislation error or slight element of doubt. If you were found guilty by 2 members of the nazi party and 1 lay person, that was that. You were going to receive your just punishment.
Now, don't get me wrong. The idea of death camps and mass executions etc were absolutely terrible, but would it be such a bad thing to have all these nasty little fuckers who attack people with hammers to steal their stuff, have never and never intend to hold legitimate jobs, bring no benefit to society whatsoever, sent to some very nasty place, never to be seen again?
Society is pretty shit when the majority think that it's okay to pay for these parasites who choose to live a life of crime, and piss off every grafter.

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#117596 - 12/02/18 10:15 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
Why do you see value in punishing people who don't want to work? Isn't that some rubbish from the Bible about eating bread by the sweat of your brow?

I thought the point of working is to get enough money together so you can kiss that boring stuff goodbye? Unless you have a specific talent that allows you a career you find personally rewarding, like my late husband did. Getting paid for doing what you love is pretty cool.

I last worked in 1989, but haven't been on the dole taking money from the taxes of people who do work. I just live a pleasantly simple life disconnected from "The Man". Of course, most people might not be able to live for decades unsupervised without getting into trouble.

Think of how much better the 20th Century would have turned out if Adolf Hitler had been forced to get a job, instead of showboating around making speeches and dreaming about being Holy Roman Emperor.
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#117597 - 12/02/18 10:24 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
Whether we like it or not, Hitler had the art of speech mastered. As I say, he brought a nation from its knees and very nearly ended up being the world superpower.
That couldn't have happened, and rocket science etc would be much less evolved now if Hitler "had been forced to get a job".

If you don't want to work, but support yourself completely, of course there is no problem, but expecting others to pay your way? No thanks.

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#117604 - 12/02/18 10:13 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
We'll, I say we have too many restrictions. If the police are ordered to stand down and do nothing while antifa tries to attack me, OK. Just don't come arrest me if a few chumps loose a few teeth in the process. More freedom, the better.

And fuck socialism of any kind.

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#117605 - 12/02/18 11:40 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Socialism in the Scandinavian flavor reflects a pre-existing social compact that is often lacking in newer nations. The related but distinct idea, so important in Puritan thought, that people covenant with each other to make a church for their ecclesiastical polity, was extended to their secular polity. We have as a result a uniquely gratified existence, the best of both worlds. This naturally attracts misanthropes with feeble intent.
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#117606 - 12/03/18 02:02 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
If you are so interested in the Third Reich, then you probably heard about the People's Court. It dealt with the so-called political offenses, even if those "crimes" merely meant distributing anti-government pamphlets. The People's Court played a major role in sentencing to death the White Rose members. The accused barely had a chance to speak in their defence. I wouldn't call that justice.

Hitler indeed reduced unemployment and the living conditions of Germans were much better than during the Great Depression. But here is a thing. The economy fluctuates. The times of economic slowdowns come and go, just like the times of prosperity. Some regulation by the government can help, just like it happened in the US, but whether it was worth the war hecatomb is disputable.

If Hitler had been such a strategic genius, had a long-time vision and could predict the consequences of his actions, he wouldn't have repeated the mistake of Napoleon Bonaparte. And we know that the biggest mistake of Napoleon was attacking Russia. The harsh climate has always worked in favor of Russians.

He was convincing enough to the masses, I will give you that. Mainly because he told people what they wanted to hear, he appealed to their primitive instincts and sentiments.

If you managed to read Mein Kampf, kudos to you. I read only bits and pieces. This shit is unreadable. The guy was crazy, and not at all in the positive sense.
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#117608 - 12/03/18 04:22 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Your little Scandinavian countries have no backup in case your leaders decide to cut you off. None. A pact? If its a pact you need, look elsewhere.
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#117609 - 12/03/18 04:46 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
Rob Taylor Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
 Originally Posted By: Czereda


If you managed to read Mein Kampf, kudos to you. I read only bits and pieces. This shit is unreadable. The guy was crazy, and not at all in the positive sense.


Really? I thought it was a very good read. I know what you mean though, it's worded strange, but that could Also be down to the translation.

Yeah ok, the guy was a nut, but he knew how to attract the masses.

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#117610 - 12/03/18 09:32 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
Yes, Hitler knew how to "attract the masses" and he led them to their deaths.

It's one thing to wipe out your enemies quickly, with a minimum of losses on your side, but something else entirely to slog it out fighting unwinnable battles. Hitler never had much of a chance of winning WWII, but he was too fascinated by how he was reflected in the masses to be bothered with the cold hard realities of economics, logistics, history and science. That's what happens when an occultnik chooses kook beliefs over reality.
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#117611 - 12/03/18 10:53 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
Yes, Hitler knew how to "attract the masses" and he led them to their deaths.

It's one thing to wipe out your enemies quickly, with a minimum of losses on your side, but something else entirely to slog it out fighting unwinnable battles. Hitler never had much of a chance of winning WWII, but he was too fascinated by how he was reflected in the masses to be bothered with the cold hard realities of economics, logistics, history and science. That's what happens when an occultnik chooses kook beliefs over reality.


That was because his philosophy didn't cause people to affirm their humanity in the face of tyranny. When people see that love and peace is possible without oppressing their true selves then that is true revolution. Hitler himself was no different then any other masculine aggressor that came before him because his "success" depended on mundane power and too much respect for the "hiddenness" ideal so that his ideology just became a mundane death trap with no real success. The true occultnik is someone with too much respect for order. Such a person is incapable of thinking for themselves and incapable of affecting real change because they would rather fuel their narcissism by embodying the machine then actually thinking for themselves.

That fatal flaw is what embodies Nazi stupidity right there.

The amusing irony is that such people go about making his identical mistakes while diluting themselves to be any better then him.

You're not different. You're just the same kind of crazy obtuseness in a different package banging your head against the same wall.


Edited by samowens84 (12/03/18 10:56 AM)

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#117613 - 12/03/18 12:10 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Labor camps for the people that refuse to work? Why would they need to in a Socialist system?

You also agree with allowing two people decide your fate? Do you also believe that people are inherently good? You can't be serious!

You disagree with racism, but find classism just dandy then? What's the difference?

Who are the parasites and what makes them thus? What are crimes without laws?

Do you even understand Socialism brah?
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#117614 - 12/03/18 12:20 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
That was because his philosophy didn't cause people to affirm their humanity in the face of tyranny. When people see that love and peace is possible without oppressing their true selves then that is true revolution.


Love and peace have never been possible on a national scale for any meaningful length of time. There are too many rough edges where differences in culture rub at the status quo until it seems that something must be done to end the friction. There is no "true self" just as there is no "false self"; we can all be different people, at different times, depending on the necessity of circumstances.


 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Hitler himself was no different then any other masculine aggressor


Wait...what? Hitler wasn't "masculine". He was the product of close inbreeding of two low-born people, who needed a Papal dispensation to marry. He could play the aggressor since he grew up being beaten by his abusive father, and hiding behind his mother's skirts (probably literally). Women in the Party found him attractive because of the gender dynamic among the common people, like the one Hitler grew up with.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
that came before him because his "success" depended on mundane power and too much respect for the "hiddenness" ideal so that his ideology just became a mundane death trap with no real success. The true occultnik is someone with too much respect for order.


Order of an artificial, not an organic, kind. Occultniks are typically conservative in a sense much broader than political, and hunger for what James Webb called "rejected knowledge". Hitler, and several of his top level cronies, were obsessed the study of "rejected knowledge", sometimes to the exclusion of practical knowledge.

 Originally Posted By: samowens84
Such a person is incapable of thinking for themselves and incapable of affecting real change because they would rather fuel their narcissism by embodying the machine then actually thinking for themselves.

That fatal flaw is what embodies Nazi stupidity right there.

The amusing irony is that such people go about making his identical mistakes while diluting themselves to be any better then him.


How can you "dilute" yourself? Maybe you mean delude, as in self-delusion?


 Originally Posted By: samowens84
You're not different. You're just the same kind of crazy obtuseness in a different package banging your head against the same wall.


Perhaps you think that because, unlike you, I don't consider myself a professional victim.
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#117615 - 12/03/18 02:01 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
[quote=samowens84]That was because his Perhaps you think that because, unlike you, I don't consider myself a professional victim.



Lol you sure about that? Or do you just embody the "pay victimhood forward" cliche to mask the fact that you feel powerless. Most of your other shit is gobbldygook that you're too smart to actually believe. And if you do then you truly are hopeless.

I don't consider myself a victim because I feel I've actually worked toward a solution and enjoy life and have seen results. If you don't then I feel sorry for you because then you truly are clinging to a victim identity because its all you have left.

To give up on a future for yourself and family while making yourself comfortable may feel like "not being" a victim to you. But I see it differently.


Edited by samowens84 (12/03/18 02:03 PM)

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#117617 - 12/03/18 03:49 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
[quote=samowens84]That was because his Perhaps you think that because, unlike you, I don't consider myself a professional victim.



Lol you sure about that? Or do you just embody the "pay victimhood forward" cliche to mask the fact that you feel powerless. Most of your other shit is gobbldygook that you're too smart to actually believe. And if you do then you truly are hopeless.

I don't consider myself a victim because I feel I've actually worked toward a solution and enjoy life and have seen results. If you don't then I feel sorry for you because then you truly are clinging to a victim identity because its all you have left.

To give up on a future for yourself and family while making yourself comfortable may feel like "not being" a victim to you. But I see it differently.


Actually, you don't know anything about this user so you're talking out of your ass right now. Nobody mentioned giving up on the future. Perhaps, you would do better if you spared yourself the wacky attempt at psychoanalysis and focused on the topic at hand.
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#117618 - 12/03/18 03:56 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
[quote=samowens84]That was because his Perhaps you think that because, unlike you, I don't consider myself a professional victim.



Lol you sure about that? Or do you just embody the "pay victimhood forward" cliche to mask the fact that you feel powerless. Most of your other shit is gobbldygook that you're too smart to actually believe. And if you do then you truly are hopeless.

I don't consider myself a victim because I feel I've actually worked toward a solution and enjoy life and have seen results. If you don't then I feel sorry for you because then you truly are clinging to a victim identity because its all you have left.

To give up on a future for yourself and family while making yourself comfortable may feel like "not being" a victim to you. But I see it differently.


Actually, you don't know anything about this user so you're talking out of your ass right now. Nobody mentioned giving up on the future. Perhaps, you would do better if you spared yourself the wacky attempt at psychoanalysis and focused on the topic at hand.


I have my opinion. Why not pursue a dialogue with the original user instead of policing my shit?


Lol seems like my "psychoanalysis" carries some weight with you.

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#117620 - 12/03/18 09:16 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
We have no "leaders" like your tyrannical ones that catastrophise everything. The pact itself is a safety net in the unlikely case of anything uncouth. Study Marx more, and I'm sure you'll arrive at more cogency.
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#117622 - 12/04/18 03:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
I actually have studied this stuff, as well as Russian history. I think you don't even know what kind of Government you have, but go ahead and take a look on the Wikipedia page for Denmark.

And fuck Marxism, it is about as far from Satanism as you can get. Its essence, being one and the same with everyone, is what Satan genuinely pukes upon.

Satanism, even in its faggy LaVeyan incarnation, is a capitalist American born practice.

For reasons.

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#117635 - 12/04/18 09:39 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
I concede to you that many Satanists happen to be from usa. Could that be because you have so many more injustices to rebel against? Your insolence suggests it's true.

When you have nothing else to rebel against, there may be no point in Satanism. The point becomes as redundant as water dripping. It then takes on eventually a different unspoken label. The label of the pact.

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#117636 - 12/04/18 09:52 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
I concede to you that many Satanists happen to be from usa. Could that be because you have so many more injustices to rebel against? Your insolence suggests it's true.

When you have nothing else to rebel against, there may be no point in Satanism. The point becomes as redundant as water dripping. It then takes on eventually a different unspoken label. The label of the pact.


Either that or you're just docile. Satanism isn't about rebelling against some "other," unless that "other" impedes your personal evolution in some way. That you feel a placid society makes spiritual evolution irrelevant says something about you. And begs the question if you don't value yourself enough to evolve what are you doing here? People far along don't give a shit about what you think unless its entertaining. You might cull away someone new and naive, but why waste your time serving such a low purpose and demean yourself that way? Its kind of sad.

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#117638 - 12/04/18 10:06 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
You conveniently ignore the topic at hand.
Both you and creatura have singled yourselves out as downtrodden americans, perhaps clever and spiteful, but always grasping at straws you'll eventually destroy. The bully syndrome you espouse will be your undoing.

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#117640 - 12/04/18 10:32 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
You conveniently ignore the topic at hand.
Both you and creatura have singled yourselves out as downtrodden americans, perhaps clever and spiteful, but always grasping at straws you'll eventually destroy. The bully syndrome you espouse will be your undoing.


*sigh* I'm not "grasping at straws," I'm rising like the phoenix.

And in this case I wasn't bullying. Perhaps I was telling you things you don't want to hear and that depresses you.

Enjoy your night though. I'm at open mic night and enjoying myself. Find something you enjoy doing and different opinions might not hurt your feelings so much.

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#117642 - 12/04/18 10:59 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
I'll agree to disagree.
But peace, enjoy the mic.

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#117644 - 12/05/18 03:20 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
No one cares about Denmark or your life there.
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#117650 - 12/05/18 10:10 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Utopia is a mere ideal for most of the world. That the grass is greener on the other side at first bedazzles them with a coveted land. Then it enrages them when they can't implement it on their side despite many feeble attempts. Hating the message and the messenger gets you into the collective predicament you find yourself in. At this point I see no way out.
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#117651 - 12/06/18 12:56 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Utopia is a mere ideal for most of the world. That the grass is greener on the other side at first bedazzles them with a coveted land. Then it enrages them when they can't implement it on their side despite many feeble attempts. Hating the message and the messenger gets you into the collective predicament you find yourself in. At this point I see no way out.


lol you're sad. I made bank and my life gets better by the day. It kills you inside doesn't it.

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#117652 - 12/06/18 09:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Dark Light 444 Offline
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Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 365
Why would words on a screen kill anyone inside here?
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#117654 - 12/06/18 11:50 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dark Light 444]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: Dark Light 444
Why would words on a screen kill anyone inside here?


It shouldn't if they decide it won't. However, a guy who is persistently annoyed with other people's success does make it fun to gloat and say shit like that. So consider that a completely selfishly gratifying response.

Perhaps your question is best directed inward. Just saying.

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#117656 - 12/06/18 02:47 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Since you keep getting off of the thread topic, any envy lies rather on your end. An obvious and deluded imbecile like you would be ostracised and ridiculed here, with all your personal deficiencies. We have afterall no vast population of "damaged people" like I witnessed in the usa.

ON topic:
Marx himself was somewhat more ambiguous about anticolonial politics. In his early career, he tended to support the struggle against colonial power only if it seemed likely to promote the goal of Socialist revolution. Certain nationalities, he scandalously declared, were "non-historic" and doomed to social collapse and extinction: consigned to the ash can of history.

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#117658 - 12/06/18 11:17 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
And which race would you want to be exterminated?
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#117659 - 12/07/18 12:21 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
The ironic thing is that you are exterminating yourselves. How do you account for all your damaged irate masses? Again you're off topic. Also, you clearly don't travel much or else your approach would be more global. What languages do you speak, do you live in a trailer, tenement, or teepee? Do you have medical insurance? Are you proud of your president? For your fragile state these are all rhetorical for you to ponder.
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#117660 - 12/07/18 12:35 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
The ironic thing is that you are exterminating yourselves. How do you account for all your damaged irate masses? Again you're off topic. Also, you clearly don't travel much or else your approach would be more global. What languages do you speak, do you live in a trailer, tenement, or teepee? Do you have medical insurance? Are you proud of your president? For your fragile state these are all rhetorical for you to ponder.


No. We're not. At least not anymore. And that is what scares you and why you are hooting and hollering.

You came here and your emptiness and weird worship of Marx, like who gives a fuck about him anyway?

That blacks and whites are healing and coming to balance with each other is exactly what frightens foreign powers. They're irrelevant here except as useless idiots. And if they're in the know, they just want a part of the positive energy that's going on.

And to challenge you again, I wasn't off topic. You mentioned Marx enjoying the idea of some people being in the "scrap" or whatever. That was the topic.

I asked you a straight question and you don't have the balls to answer with a definitive yes or no. You're a fucking coward who wants to bask in the refractive glow and pretend other people's struggles have something to do with you. You're a parasite.

I'll ask you again, and I dare you to answer definitively.

Which race would you like to see exterminated? I'll put this in blunt terms and force you to face the ethics of what you're supporting.

Which children would you like to see slaughtered? Which women would you like to see raped and abused?

Which children do you feel deserves to be shot in the head?

Would you have the guts to do it?

I bet you would just hide behind you're intellectualism in your comfortable office because you have no moral courage or integrity.

Are you a fucking coward who supports hurting women and children as a means to make your life feel less empty while pretending it has something to do with "civil rights," or are you just playing pretend?

Bet you don't have the balls to answer definitively.

Go on. Quote Marx again. It's easier to hide behind him then take responsibility for your actions, right?


Edited by samowens84 (12/07/18 12:36 AM)

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#117661 - 12/07/18 01:02 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
With balls, I have already answered your daft question twice over.
I and most in Europe have the unfortunate but surmountable task: dealing with oblivious americans who mostly have a "pave the earth" ethos. Not to mention their frequent mental neuroses that come with the package. You can be spotted a kilometer away with your sad rags and pitiful affect/mannerisms and demands.

I shall not bother you with any more Marx.

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#117662 - 12/07/18 01:37 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
Lol no you haven't. You dissembled. I want to see if you can say you like killing women and children as long as they're white. But you can't. You shrank. You can't even say it bluntly because you are incapable of owning your opinions and their implications.

Like I said. A coward.

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#117663 - 12/07/18 01:41 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
You haven't answered my questions from above either. Do you even remember them?
I don't believe in genocide if that was what you were seeking.

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#117665 - 12/07/18 02:39 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Hilarious. IT won't answer poignant questions because it knows the answers would implicate itself. Now we know who the coward is.
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#117744 - 12/14/18 04:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
Aeon6...
You are sounding like a dick.

National Socialism, Marxism, Communism,... they have had their shot and failed.

In the end, politics and economics are still doing the same thing as they did back in the colonial days. Taking the resources they need. The difference now is making trade deals and other virtual administration structures instead of shooting up the locals and exploiting the land.

A whole less of obvious bloodshed, but still royally screwing things over. And now everyone is involved with a big smile and moral righteousness.


Edited by Dimitri (12/14/18 04:30 AM)
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#117745 - 12/14/18 10:07 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 253
Loc: High Peak, UK
Of course he won't answer you, he has no interest in you; his only interest is spouting whatever version of Watchtower he happens to be peddling.

I have to admit he's quite good at it, probably had some training but his aim in his responses is to build a platform for him to preach from.

Look back in this thread, the classic Straw Man; & from that moment on it's all about him.

The man is an ignorant dick.
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#117747 - 12/14/18 10:44 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: RT
A lot of the philosophy of the nazi party, I agree with. In fact, probably the only part I disagree with is the racism.


Then you have no idea what it is you're reading. Cultural preservation is very much a part of Third Reich Germany. The Germans just had to learn to be better at propaganda than their enemies were.
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#117751 - 12/14/18 09:12 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: SIN3]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
The pervasive use of propaganda by the Nazis is largely responsible for the word "propaganda" itself acquiring its present negative connotations. Sort of like paparazzi. The principle of Gleichschaltung endures but racism does not. However a new dimension is unfolding after they recently took in ca. 1 million arab refugees. It's not much reflected in their news but is in the music coming out of Germany.
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#117753 - 12/15/18 02:35 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
active member


Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
Nazis died. We killed them. Germany lost because they didn't do it right.

America and all of our glorious capitalism rules the roost of the modern world.

A country without the right to bear arms to protect its foundation against tyranny is living on borrowed time.

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#117754 - 12/15/18 05:14 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
Sure thing, CN (wink, wink)

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
Nazis died. We killed them. Germany lost because they didn't do it right.


Something like 50 million humans died in WWII, not all of them "Nazis". The Russians were the Nazi-killing machine. Since Russia was one of the Allies, I am guessing that you include them in "we"? Not that the American military wasn't brave and tough, but the Germans and Russians were fighting for their homelands, which adds a ferocity factor. I may be wrong about this, but I think the last foreign war the USA won was the Spanish American at the end of the 19th Century. As for not doing it right, well...the war was lost when Hitler was allowed to become commander-in-chief.

 Originally Posted By: Ceatura Noptii
America and all of our glorious capitalism rules the roost of the modern world.


As if. And I am a capitalist, living on passive income.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii
A country without the right to bear arms to protect its foundation against tyranny is living on borrowed time.


Unfortunately, all nations and political systems have an expiration date, with or without the firearms.
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#117755 - 12/15/18 07:41 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton


Unfortunately, all nations and political systems have an expiration date, with or without the firearms.


I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but most systems "fail" because they fail to adapt to human nature. Usually because they are overly aggressive and overreach, and the tide recedes. Capitalism, Islam, Communism, Nazism, and other such isms are problematic because they inevitably fail to know their limits and self-destruct.

Perhaps I agree with you that all systems have an expiration date. Including global hegemony.


Edited by samowens84 (12/15/18 07:42 AM)

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#117757 - 12/15/18 03:35 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Rob Taylor Offline
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Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 58
Loc: England, Surrey
All systems fail, but that could take a lifetime. Every system is good in theory, but all systems are exploited. The problem is, no matter what the philosophy, if a human has power, it'll eventually corrupt.
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#117762 - 12/15/18 09:45 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
The temporary utopia we forge hinges on the nordic model: heavy voluntary taxation. "Upward mobility" is of no concern, there being no "down" from which to come up from. What I gather from this thread so far is a grotesque ignorance of Socialism in its modern and functional forms. You're still relying on misnomers, though I do learn from some insights.
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#117763 - 12/16/18 04:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
I know Russia played a big part in defeating the Nazis, but the USA still killed them plenty \:\)

Nothing lasts forever, no, but let me tell you, even if you are living on a small wage in the USA, you still have more opportunity than a lot of other people do in other places. Not saying our nation is perfect or anything, but I'll keep it at that.

The one true thing to keep in mind about human nature, is that we build and destroy. To prevent something from failing, you have to have your fail safe plan. In the USA that's guns.

@aeon6: Or maybe you just refuse to learn. I really wonder why you're here. Do you think being socialist makes you Satanist? Your country has no fail safe, taxes don't make you a 'better' or 'safer' country. You sit there and denounce everything people tell you here, maybe because you don't want to learn or just don't want to see the truth. This is all too common a trait, and definitely one of the so called downsides to human nature.

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#117765 - 12/16/18 10:35 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Creatura Noptii]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Dominion over one's world is indeed a Satanic tenet, so why ask me how socialism relates?
Forming collective entities for the mere sanctification of human existence is not an irrational solution. To build and destroy with guns, as you put it, lands you in the predicament you find yourself in. What I find UNsatanic about you is your IQ.

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#117766 - 12/17/18 09:42 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Creatura Noptii Offline
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Registered: 01/02/16
Posts: 950
1 Your country isn't even socialist. You have a government that heavily taxes your population.

2 Taxation is theft. Taking people's money without permission is always theft. Your government steals from you on a regular basis, making sure they have the majority of money first. Yours just does it a lot more than others because it knows it can get away with it.

3 Your government has final say over everything. You rely completely on them to survive. Your private sector is unstable. How the fuck do you persuade people to do anything when there is no up or down, when doctors get paid as much as the bag boy at the grocery store?!

4 You have NO FAIL SAFE. NONE. If your government sinks, you sink right on down with it if they decide to take you with 'em!

CONCLUSION: Your so called "pact" isn't one. There is a reason no other country will allow gun rights the way The United States does, because the real predicament is for the government, not the people. In spite of all our flaws, there is still a good chance for us to rebel and make serious change, and to have an ability to truly defend ourselves if necessary.

I demand bullet points. Since you won't go away, since you keep up the faggot attitude, go ahead. Make a bullet point motherfucker, do it. Tell me exactly how Socialism makes for personal dominion over your own life. I swear to fuck I've heard some bullshit before, and I don't care if you're trolling, this site was made to "put your intellectual metal to the test" and be held to that standard. If all moderation wants to say fuck all, that's OK. I'm here to show you what a fucking idiot you are because that's just one of my favorite passtimes. Especially when little cuck shit faggots like you don't want to fess up. You want to tell me my IQ sucks? Prove it! Fuck! Prove it you cocksucking little shit! Do it!

Yeah. Sure. I'm aggressive. I'm hot headed. I'm stubborn and persistent. One thing I am NOT is a complete fucking fool. I show my nasty attitude to little shits who try talking down to me who really don't know a fucking thing what they're talking about because they fucking deserve it.

Fuck you.

Fuck your arguments.

Fucking bullet points. Prove me wrong.

I've got my claws and teeth ready motherfucker, give me something I can at least sink' 'em into for a little while before I rip these ideas of yours to fucking shreds.

Bullet points.

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#117769 - 12/17/18 10:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
The pervasive use of propaganda by the Nazis is largely responsible for the word "propaganda" itself acquiring its present negative connotations.
I think you're confusing matters here. It already had negative connotations, it was already in use by Americans and Political Jews. That some of those Jews happen to live in Germany is moot.

 Quote:

Sort of like paparazzi. The principle of Gleichschaltung endures but racism does not. However a new dimension is unfolding after they recently took in ca. 1 million arab refugees. It's not much reflected in their news but is in the music coming out of Germany.


Racism certainly does. Racism is just a modern term for a component of our species, it's a survival mechanism that has to be nurtured over its nature. Technology also plays a role. We are less tribal than we used to be, but we certainly have tribalism that is constant. "Community" by any other name is just Tribalism.

You're calling the Asylum of foreign refugees a new dimension of xenophobia, but you're ignoring that this has always been the case when the 'New World' was seeing foreigners in droves, and an uptick with Refugees taken in from various war-torn areas more aggressivly in the early 70's.

I think you have a very myopic world view on this subject.
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#117770 - 12/17/18 11:11 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: SIN3]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Have it your way SIN. There is no refuting you.
Enjoy your victories.

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#118896 - 03/11/19 08:58 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 580
you know how germany was a mess after 1st WW. ever read 1984? about the communists? you should. I'm not even sure if people nowadays are familiar with the meaning of words like "communism" or/and "nazism". People like my mother and my father, who LIVED through Nazi occupation through 1940-1945 are gone now. With them all they've seen passed away. She told me of a story, the Nazi cook threw away food while there were children starving. her mother (my grandmother) offered to do job in the kitchen in exchange for giving away surplus food to starving kids. and taking two portions for her children.
I mean, the meaning of words is lost with the people who had the experiences. I, am still aware. but, I wonder about other people. Do you really understand what you're talking about?
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#118897 - 03/11/19 10:39 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: fiendish]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
1984 was epitomized by the DDR: Deutsche Democratische Republic. There, even until the very end in 1989, you would contend with the intrusiveness of the Stasi. You couldn't change your mind without first closing the blinds. Weird art that came out of East Germany was definitely worth buying, perhaps more valuable than grafitti-blessed Berlin Wall chunks. Now all mere relics of an aftermath.

The memories and experiences of the deceased are not amiss. Because the calamity in question left an eternal imprint that will never escape the collective psyche. My few older family members are dying off lately. The legacy they leave is the bed of moss I sleep on.

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#118900 - 03/12/19 11:47 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
RJ9000 Offline
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Registered: 10/03/18
Posts: 18
the USA MIC's efforts to implement a Chinese-style social credit system would make the Stasi's efforts look endearingly quaint.

The memories and experiences of deceased East Germans are merely a set of case studies to direct the improvement of social engineering.

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#118962 - 03/21/19 07:24 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 580
You see, collective memories tend to fade in a way they are made part of what it is usually thought as part of it. Complex understanding, complex thought, complex in every way. It's like asking from someone to make it clear by redoing the math. 1 plus 1 is two, give us an example. That simple.
I sense people wouldn't hesitate remaking parts of history just to feel how it was. That's the only incentive I could barely think when coming up to some ways of thinking. Which is not wrong at all considering there's a world full of references about something people do not have any experience about! At some point I might even think they wish to live what they've been told about.
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#118968 - 03/21/19 10:09 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: fiendish]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Forget about wishing, we *are* living what we had been told about: its aftermath, namely beyond math of 1+1 but rather calculus. It would take such a formula of society to withstand temporary belligerence of neighboring folk who are suffering a neurotic fit sociopolitically. Ambulance or hearse?
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#118970 - 03/22/19 05:42 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
SagittariusA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/19
Posts: 9
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Czereda

If Hitler had been such a strategic genius, had a long-time vision and could predict the consequences of his actions, he wouldn't have repeated the mistake of Napoleon Bonaparte. And we know that the biggest mistake of Napoleon was attacking Russia. The harsh climate has always worked in favor of Russians.

Actually no, he and his generals agreed that it was the best time to attack the Soviet Union. The red army was in a very bad condition and Stalin had almost killed all of his generals. There were also plans on the part of the SU to attack the west which Hitler wanted to forestall. The winter was planned and just because of Napoleon they tried to reach Moscow as fast as possible. In fact the Wehrmacht was in the Suburbs of Moscow and could even see the city. Stalin had actually intended not to leave the capital like Hitler did later. Only this year's winter came earlier than expected and it was unusually hard. The attack on the SU wasn't the mistake itself, rather there were some things that went wrong during the campaign, for example the splitting up of some armies etc.

 Originally Posted By: Rob Taylor

All systems fail, but that could take a lifetime. Every system is good in theory, but all systems are exploited. The problem is, no matter what the philosophy, if a human has power, it'll eventually corrupt.

"if a human has power" that can be changed (someday)
"Poll: 25 Percent of European Adults Think Maybe Robots Should Be Calling the Shots, Not Politicians"
https://gizmodo.com/poll-25-percent-of-european-adults-think-maybe-robots-1833454667

"no matter what the philosophy"
Thats a problem too, no philosophy is perfect for ruling. In business you are using diffrent leadershipstyles as you need them.
This is what we schould use in politics too. Some systems broke because they set the philosophy over logic.
If your system is purely based on logic there should be just external factors that are threatening you.

 Originally Posted By: Creatura Noptii

2 Taxation is theft. Taking people's money without permission is always theft.


I think you give them permission as soon as you use a service offered by the government.
Now you can of course argue about the way which your money is spent.
I think the best example of this would be defence.
Of course a few thousand people can get together with their weapons and try to defend their country against another one, but it makes more sense to combine and invest in a fighter plane. The costs for reasonable defense are so enormous that you can only finance them via public.
And defense is everybody's business, because with the state almost all people are attacked at once.
The freedom to have a health insurance or not? Your decision and your problem if you get sick.
But in case of an attack by another state, you will be compulsorily protected.
As long as there are other systems that have a centralized military, you mostly can't get around it yourself.

"always" is a bad word, because there are always (yep, I know that I used the word here too) some exceptions.


What I noticed during the whole discussion... why reduce national socialism only to Hitler?
"real socialism has never been tried"
Yes, he is the most prominet example, but there were far fewer attempts than with communism/socialism.
If you want to talk seriously about it, you should see it independently of war and Hitler himself.
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#118971 - 03/22/19 10:16 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: SagittariusA]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
No shit. The weather often takes humans by surprise. Part of any long term planning should be preparing for the unpredictable. The lack of foresight can often be observed in politics and in casual daily life and is a primary reason why generally good ideas turn to shit.

Oh I'm so sorry I'm two hours' late. I didn't know there would be such a big traffic. At 7 a.m. I thought I would be on that road alone. Not my fault. What could I do? *shrugs*

Our law is good. We had good intentions. We just didn't predict that the bad unscrupulous people will start abusing it.

There is this saying: When the blind lead the blind...

And of course, we can discuss ideas without any references to facts and experience but it's nothing more than mental masturbation. The problem with the utopian ideologies is that they don't make allowance for shitty human nature. That's why any attempt to put them into practice always turns out to be unsuccessful.


Edited by Czereda (03/22/19 10:18 AM)
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#118972 - 03/22/19 01:25 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
No shit. The weather often takes humans by surprise. Part of any long term planning should be preparing for the unpredictable. The lack of foresight can often be observed in politics and in casual daily life and is a primary reason why generally good ideas turn to shit.

Oh I'm so sorry I'm two hours' late. I didn't know there would be such a big traffic. At 7 a.m. I thought I would be on that road alone. Not my fault. What could I do? *shrugs*

Our law is good. We had good intentions. We just didn't predict that the bad unscrupulous people will start abusing it.

There is this saying: When the blind lead the blind...

And of course, we can discuss ideas without any references to facts and experience but it's nothing more than mental masturbation. The problem with the utopian ideologies is that they don't make allowance for shitty human nature. That's why any attempt to put them into practice always turns out to be unsuccessful.
I kept trying to find a few choice words to quote, but every time I read this post it's all gold.

Holy fuck guys, Russia is sometimes extra cold. Who could've predicted that?

The Allies would've been totally screwed without the Soviets. Way to ensure defeat by pissing them off.

Pearl Harbor only gets the silver in the derp Olympics that was the Axis in WWII. Valiant effort, for sure.
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#118974 - 03/22/19 07:20 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
SagittariusA Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/19
Posts: 9
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Czereda

No shit. The weather often takes humans by surprise. Part of any long term planning should be preparing for the unpredictable.


You're kind of putting it there like there's no risk in war.
Either attack the still weakened enemy or wait until he has upgraded accordingly and beats you while you are still busy in the west. And alone that it was not like Napoleon a total desaster, but at the key point was unbelievably sharp shows how well everything was prepared. In fact, the approaching winter had been the biggest worry of the german general staff at any time, but there was no other option than to push further because a standstill and the following reinforcement of the SU would have definitely led to the disaster.
Under all aspects, the best decision was to carry out the attack and continue, but some keypoint (the weather) was not as hoped.

The same could have happened with D-day or the air battle over England and it doesn't matter if it's about "odds" in the weather or against humans. In fact, many key points of the second world war as well as many other wars depended on pure chance and luck.

To counter misfortune with "preparing for the unpredictable" does not work in reality due to recourses limitation. It was simply not possible to stop one half for the winter and keep pushing forward with the other half at the same time. And only one of the options contained a acceptable chance of victory.

I think we've drifted a little too far into warfare now. If you are interested in a more detailed discussion about warfare you are welcome to send me a pm.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda

And of course, we can discuss ideas without any references to facts and experience

I think there's been a misunderstanding.
 Originally Posted By: SagittariusA

(...)independently of war and Hitler himself.

I meant the prewar economy, productivity and the other stuff that either worked or didn't and why or why not, and what can we learn from it?
When you talk about communism, you don't just talk about war or Lenin.
How effective or good/bad a system is can be said most badly in war, because that is the state of emergency and not the normal state of the system.
Therefore we should see it seperated from the war.
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#118975 - 03/23/19 03:40 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: SagittariusA]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: SagittariusA
I think we've drifted a little too far into warfare now.

Fair enough. Back to the main topic...

 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Socialism in the Scandinavian flavor...

Is not "socialism." What the Nordic countries have is a robust welfare system. Many people use the term "socialism" in reference to such, but that's not what the damn word means. I'm of this obstinant mind that words have meaning and ought to be used accordingly.

On that note...
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Labor camps for the people that refuse to work? Why would they need to in a Socialist system?

Because that's what socialism is, FFS.

 Originally Posted By: aeon6
...reflects a pre-existing social compact that is often lacking in newer nations.

It's almost as though a shared identity is vital to the rapid mobilization of a people via romanticism--hence, why OP's "Hitler, but minus the racism" premise is as infeasible as a tripod with two legs.

 Originally Posted By: Rob Taylor
Yeah ok, the guy was a nut, but he knew how to attract the masses.

So did Jim Jones. Very similar, those two, down to the chikenshit euthanasia bullet instead of sharing the agony of their compatriots' poison.

 Originally Posted By: Rob Taylor
All systems fail, but that could take a lifetime. Every system is good in theory, but all systems are exploited. The problem is, no matter what the philosophy, if a human has power, it'll eventually corrupt.

Correct. Hence, the best system is the one that relies the least on the lack of corruption. That ain't socialism.
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#119130 - 04/24/19 08:52 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 580
Sometimes what we think is what happens. If what you think is that if a human has power will eventually corrupt, he will. What you want is to get power and use it the way you like. So, you think the whole world is that way. And you make it that way. What makes the change is thinking differently. Thinking what you want is the first step towards making it real. Except if you really like corruption?
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#120222 - 09/17/19 11:05 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Drebin001 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 27
Loc: Cleveland, OH, USA
If people learn how to manipulate a broken system, then more power to them. If the system needs reform, then these people might be inherently obstructing the reformation of that system, so that's another take.

However, all being said and done, I don't really care if someone manipulates the government for welfare money. It doesn't affect my life in any direct way. I'll survive, regardless.
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#120228 - 09/17/19 06:19 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Drebin001]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1823
Loc: New York
The problem is not with a few individuals manipulating the welfare system to receive benefits, but that the government is making it more attractive and easier to get on benefits, as well as encouraging the immigration of people from outside of the USA who will end up on the welfare system. A few thousand people milking the system might not affect us, but when millions of people from other countries get on it, it might be a different story.
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#120249 - 09/19/19 03:08 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Asmedious]
Drebin001 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 27
Loc: Cleveland, OH, USA
Well, if your problem is with the system itself. Good luck with changing that. If you care to fight that fight, being a political activist, then more power to you. I have little interest in that, personally.

I'm here for a short amount of time, maybe 100 years if I'm very lucky. I don't care to spend the better part of my days climbing uphill in a mudslide.
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#120256 - 09/20/19 12:58 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Asmedious]
Kori Houghton Offline
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Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
The problem is not with a few individuals manipulating the welfare system to receive benefits, but that the government is making it more attractive and easier to get on benefits, as well as encouraging the immigration of people from outside of the USA who will end up on the welfare system. A few thousand people milking the system might not affect us, but when millions of people from other countries get on it, it might be a different story.



The majority of USA dole bludgers are rural WASPs whose ancestors came to North America centuries ago and spoke English (well, some dialect thereof) as their native tongue. The real life typical "welfare queen" has very pale skin and became a mom for the first time after dropping out of school as a young teen, at the demand of their parents.

They are habitually unemployable because they can't read at even the 8th grade level, can't get a driver's license (which is a must have in rural areas where there is no PT), often have behavioral (they have criminal records) and/or addiction issues, and are as stoopid as can be without being medically developmentally disabled.

Their numbers are slowly, but steadily, increasing since the women have 3-5 children -- more than the average. And their generations are closer together: women become grannies before age 35.

Of course the propagandists who hype on the vast numbers of foreigners coming here to sponge off of the tax base have no issues with the true recipients of multi-generational welfare getting all that they do.
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#120276 - 09/22/19 01:50 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
The elephant-in-the-room crisis has meant that the word "capitalism", usually disguised under some coy pseudonym as "the modern age/ industrialism/ the West", has become current once more. You can tell that the capitalist system is in trouble when people start talking more about capitalism. It indicates that the system has ceased to be as natural as the air we breathe, and can be seen instead as the historical rather than recent phenomenon that it is. Whatever was born can always die, which is why social systems like to present themselves as immortal.

As a bout of dengue fever makes you newly aware of your body, so a form of social life can be perceived for what it is when it begins to break down. Ambitious as Marx was, he never foresaw the dismal demographic you pointed out.

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#120279 - 09/22/19 06:40 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
It could be the matter of tribal mentality. A nation is a modern tribe. People are more likely to tolerate the members of their own nation milking the welfare than foreigners, who are often perceived as the Other. And even if it pisses them off, people regard it as somewhat natural that the state helps its less lucky citizens, especially if the children are involved. Even if the mother is perceived as a lazy parasite, children are thought not to be guilty of the mother's actions and therefore eligible for help. Not sure how it is in the US, but here in Poland there is a considerable number of people who think that the society should take care of all of its children regardless of their parents' behavior. Because you know... all children are ours. But it only refers to Polish children.
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#120282 - 09/22/19 02:45 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
The elephant-in-the-room crisis has meant that the word "capitalism", usually disguised under some coy pseudonym as "the modern age/ industrialism/ the West", has become current once more. You can tell that the capitalist system is in trouble when people start talking more about capitalism. It indicates that the system has ceased to be as natural as the air we breathe, and can be seen instead as the historical rather than recent phenomenon that it is. Whatever was born can always die, which is why social systems like to present themselves as immortal.

As a bout of dengue fever makes you newly aware of your body, so a form of social life can be perceived for what it is when it begins to break down. Ambitious as Marx was, he never foresaw the dismal demographic you pointed out.


Everything has a natural element to it.

The gem in every system is immortal as wisdom per se. But the structure built on a genuine gem must be dynamic in order to survive. Often a structure may have collapsed in history only because the gem the system depended was founded on the false assumption that it had to crowd out other gems of wisdom in order to prop up an unstable structure that seemed to depend on fractured wisdom by it's very nature couldn't sustain itself.

The history of the world until recently had been built on passing one incomplete bit of wisdom just to substitute one unstable structure with another.

As wisdom has become more harmonized, as it generally is now, though some might be reluctant to admit it, I find myself in partial agreement with Marx.

The state will dissolve away as nature is evolving into a more natural harmonious society.

My joke on communism is that many self proclaimed "communists" had advocated the same unnatural substitution of one incomplete thought structure gem with another while seeming to be oblivious to the irony.

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#120287 - 09/22/19 07:00 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Kori Houghton
The majority of USA dole bludgers are rural WASPs whose ancestors came to North America centuries ago and spoke English (well, some dialect thereof) as their native tongue. The real life typical "welfare queen" has very pale skin and became a mom for the first time after dropping out of school as a young teen, at the demand of their parents.
...
Of course the propagandists who hype on the vast numbers of foreigners coming here to sponge off of the tax base have no issues with the true recipients of multi-generational welfare getting all that they do.
Yes and no.

I dealt with welfare recipients in the panhandle. In cities like Amarillo and Lubbock, there was a roughly even split of 1/3 whites, 1/3 blacks, and 1/3 Hispanics on the dole. Asian, Middle Eastern, and African (immigrant, not black American) recipients were a relative rarity, despite there being a remarkably high number of refugees in the panhandle. The more podunk, far-flung little towns that had all of one Dairy Queen, one gas station, and a population in the triple digits were either overwhelmingly white as Wonderbread, half-and-half, or practically Mexican enclaves.

Many of the Hispanic recipients were from families that used the border as a revolving door. There's a mottled gradient of culture and race from Mexico up to the US. The border is there only in theory.

The thirteen-year-old rural brides were very common among both whites and Hispanics. There really wasn't much difference, in practice.

If a majority of welfare recipients are white, it's because a majority of the population is white. But whites make up a lower percentage of the dole than they do of the general population. So yes, those entrenched in the welfare system are often natural-born American citizens. But blacks and (often undocumented) Hispanics were disproportionately represented among them.
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#120313 - 09/26/19 09:33 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Czereda]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Agreed. While I do also like National Socialism having grown up a white South African and also on a different side of history than most, I think it did have flaws.

National Socialism as it was didn't work then, and can't work now. It can be evolved though. And to some extent it's becoming apparent that it will reemerge soon, Italy is a great example of how Fascism is becoming popular again.


I don't agree that Hitler was crazy though. I hardly think anybody that doesn't share your opinions qualify as crazy. This isn't the Dark Ages.
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#120314 - 09/26/19 09:35 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
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Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17

If a majority of welfare recipients are white, it's because a majority of the population is white. But whites make up a lower percentage of the dole than they do of the general population. So yes, those entrenched in the welfare system are often natural-born American citizens. But blacks and (often undocumented) Hispanics were disproportionately represented among them.


Somehow this logic always seems to escape low IQ individuals. Well said.


Edited by Ubermensch23 (09/26/19 09:37 AM)
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#120322 - 09/27/19 12:36 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Ubermensch23]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Welfare, the bad word in america because it supports a largese underclass with orbiting children, is an entirely different entitlement in different lands. Find yourself in a utopia, quest is done.
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#120327 - 09/27/19 04:56 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Welfare, the bad word in america because it supports a largese underclass with orbiting children, is an entirely different entitlement in different lands. Find yourself in a utopia, quest is done.
Well yeah, if you live in a country that routinely deports people for being on the dole, I imagine it can afford to be fairly generous with its own citizens.

Unfortunately, being on the dole is not grounds for deportation in the US, even if you aren't a citizen. Someone should tell Trump to get on that.

It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...
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#120335 - 09/28/19 01:14 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1556
Loc: Ca
 Originally Posted By: XG
Well yeah, if you live in a country that routinely deports people for being on the dole, I imagine it can afford to be fairly generous with its own citizens.

Unfortunately, being on the dole is not grounds for deportation in the US, even if you aren't a citizen. Someone should tell Trump to get on that.

It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.


Collective bargaining, unionized workforce? Value added tax? As long as there is a Republican party that would never happen. 

This country can't even get mostly immigrant rideshare drivers to want to unionize in California and be considered employees. 

Good luck with anything Nordic.

 Quote:

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...


Anti-Green Tirade begin:

Renewable energy is such fucking bullshit. Like with Iceland you either have natural resources to do it (geothermal) or want trade in it (China).

https://www.clickenergy.com.au/news-blog/12-countries-leading-the-way-in-renewable-energy/

 Originally Posted By: 12-countries-leading-the-way-in-renewable-energy


Costa Rica

Because of its small size (just 4.9 million people) and unique geography (67 volcanoes), Costa Rica is able to meet a large part of its energy needs from hydroelectric, geothermal, solar, and wind sources. The country aims to be completely carbon-neutral by the year 2021 and has already achieved some impressive results, running on 100% renewable energy for more than two months twice in the last two years

China

They may be the world’s largest polluter, but China is also the world’s biggest investor in renewable energy, with huge investment levels both at home and overseas.  China now owns: five of the world’s six largest solar-module manufacturing firms; the largest wind-turbine manufacturer; the world’s largest lithium ion manufacturer; and the world’s largest electricity utility. China is fully committed to reducing fossil fuel consumption and with its heavily polluted cities has every incentive for doing so.


That last one, China, is the biggest tell of all. They make all the solar panels, build the hybrid batteries, and are probably buying up all the platinum and iridium they can to position themselves to be leader in hydrogen electrolysis.

And that is the future, the glorious capitalist future of Gr€€n energy. Chinese wholesale.

Renewable energy to provide the massive power requirement needed to remove the hydrogen from water to power the fuel cells to replace internal combustion engines, along with lithium ion batteries, and all associated mining and manufacturing operations of not only lithium, but zinc, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, nickel, copper, and pretty much every transition metal.

But it's all about carbon and methane, and those horrible greenhouse gasses.

Which is total bullshit IMO, and here is why.

There are positive feedback loops and negative feedback loops.

Increases in CO2, NO2, and CH4 and other non-condensable gasses increase the temperature increasing the water vapor, further increasing the temperature...  but then the increases in water vapor increases the amount of cloud formation. Increased cloud cover then lowers the amount of sunlight which cools the temperature. The increases in atmospheric non-condensable gasses are the architects of ice ages following a significant warming event. The planet melts and freezes continuously.

And sorry once mindful hybrid driver, earth is no where near the maximum greenhouse related historical high temperature (Not even close) and the ocean is no where near as deoxygenated as it was after a period of flood volcanism life on this planet survived.

And in the most recent 6% of its existence too.

At the Permian-triassic line (250 million years ago) the Siberian Traps were formed. These are MASSIVE fucking flood basalt deposits (about the size of Brazil) that in an extremely protracted eruption released more methane and greenhouse gasses than all industrialized human civilizations together over their entire history could produce, and raised the sea temperature to 104 degrees, completely starved it of oxygen, and killed 95% of life. 

That said.

All you green ecotards are wallets with global concern and no concept of this planet's more recent geological history. 

Subsidies and slushy kickbacks of pork barrel commerce assures contracts to provide the panels to give you the tax rebate.

And Oklahomans are fine getting more earthquakes than San Francisco.

Anti-green tirade End.

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#120336 - 09/28/19 04:13 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Ubermensch23 Offline
member


Registered: 03/11/14
Posts: 146
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17


It always makes me laugh when American progs say we should follow the policies of Nordic countries. They have a very selective, idealized understanding of what those policies are.

When I spoke of the impracticality of the entire energy grid being 100% renewables, someone touted Sweden as a prime example of a nation that had a high percentage of its electrical energy from wind. He shut up when I pointed out that Texas was even higher...


They also never seem to mention that Nordic countries are largely homogeneous societies. And Sweden's recent aversion to the welfare state coincides with mass migration.

It's fine to learn from other economic models, as long as you don't nitpick based on your political ideology.
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#120340 - 09/28/19 10:27 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Ubermensch23]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1341
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Ubermensch23
It's fine to learn from other economic models, as long as you don't nitpick based on your political ideology.
One I frequently hear is that we should imitate the Nordic countries' relatively gentle, rehabilitation-focused criminal justice systems.

That works in relatively homogeneous, close-knit societies that aren't terribly urbanized, where everyone knows everyone and there's a sense of shared community. Your average criminal in that scenario is a hurt individual who's troubled and needs help.

It's far less practical in massive urban areas where there's an utter lack of any sense of family or community because everyone's part of a teeming anonymous crowd and it's every man for himself. It's one thing to restore a sense of social responsibility and empathy in a person who has lost his way. It's another to try to build it from scratch where it never existed because there's little if anything the criminal has in common with society.

Many in one group I frequent described, e.g., Sweden's response to migrant sexual assault cases as "cucked." I pointed out that the real issue wasn't that the Swedish criminal justice system was deliberately going light on migrants in particular. Rather, the Swedish criminal justice system overall was designed for Swedish criminals, who were relatively mild. They didn't have mechanisms in place to handle a different sort of crime--one where the criminal is utterly lacking in empathy due to alienation.

The US once had a very conscientious criminal justice system, as well. The harsh mechanisms we now how in place--the criminal justice meat grinder--is a direct result of a shift in the structure of society. Industrialization and urbanization caused a crime wave, and the public made an outcry to do something about it. Next you know, there's police brutality and mass incarceration.

Another example that I've frequently heard liberals parrot is that the government should pay for college in America like many European countries do.

Okay, are we going to do everything else Europe does with respect to college?

Are we going to have stringent standards for admission? If we want to have the taxpayers foot the bill for college degrees, maybe we shouldn't be lowering admission standards in the name of diversity and inclusion, such that borderline illiterate students are going to college.

Are we going to have rigorous criteria for what qualifies as a legitimate degree program? If we're going to ask the taxpayers to invest in educating the next generation, maybe we should be expecting marketable skills that will offer a return on that investment. The people who say we should follow the European model and have taxes cover degrees are rarely STEM majors or people seeking trade certifications. It's usually Lesbian Studies or some shit.
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#120341 - 09/28/19 12:52 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
I think a narcissist with a God complex can be just as toxic as someone who to their eyes "lacks empathy."

The narcissist only mirrors, and often gets wrong, what other people's expectations are, because other people's expectations are often centered around a quality that is necessary for empathy, and that's integrity.

Glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

What kind of response were you hoping for?

It feels like you're looking for someone to challenge you in some way?

I mean, it's kinda fun to spar a few rounds, but... don't you think this is kinda childish?

Haven't we outgrown this?

It feels cathartic in one way, and from my point of view poking me to get my attention seems to be wasting valuable time you could spend adulting.

So what gives?

I mean, even my above jab feels more relevant to you three years ago. I doubt you should even be hurt by it.

So if you want lay down on the couch and tell me what's really bothering you. ;\)


Edited by samowens84 (09/28/19 12:54 PM)

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#120345 - 09/29/19 10:36 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
I agree there.

Each country has their own systems and economy in place.
What works in one country does not necessarily work in another due to economic structural and historic reasons.

"Imitation is the highest form of flattery".
Doesn't say anything about shooting in the own feet when doing so.
Just the original getting some respectable credit.

Many liberals "see" and want the advantages.
Generally being blind to the costs and fees in order to achieve that. The mentioned example of education carries the hindsight of lowering studentloans on short term but increasing the interests on these loans in order to create sufficient cashflow in order to make the thing work.
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#120371 - 10/02/19 03:23 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dimitri]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
What I take relatively for granted, you may consider utopian in ambition and attainability. So I'd never flatter you with even pale imitation. The economic, structural and historic reasons you mention for places are vast yet brief (paleolithically) but despite that are forces to contend with. To address education there directly, it's truly becoming the meatgrinder of the world: you love to violate your own kind...right down to the medications and services that save your lives.


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#120374 - 10/02/19 04:30 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
What I take relatively for granted, you may consider utopian in ambition and attainability. So I'd never flatter you with even pale imitation. The economic, structural and historic reasons you mention for places are vast yet brief (paleolithically) but despite that are forces to contend with. To address education there directly, it's truly becoming the meatgrinder of the world: you love to violate your own kind.



Just like any other impulse.

Things can take many different manifestations depending on the context.

An addiction is just the shame that can come from a momentary act of weakness.

It's a moment where there's a potential danger of human authentic fulfillment that comes from love, kindness and compassion, and the compulsive act that false guilt can create out of shame.

Trying to make the shame acceptable by assuming that emotion has anything to do with the act that inspired the shame is what had the potential to make the act cyclical.

That shame has nothing to do with the act. Once I understood that I learned how to instantly escape a potentially dangerous cycle.

Because any effort to try and make it about someone forgiving me or finding an objective reason for the action in objective terms is a distraction from the shame mechanism inside me that wants fulfillment as a human being but found that difficult when I didn't understand the shame principle.

The illusion was that I thought I needed society to forgive me to escape shame. And the illusion can be compoumded by bad karma, and the bad karma fed the illusion that I needed the permission of society to exist.

Underneath that though, I discovered a secret.

Underneath the dirt and disapproving eyes and personal shame, my soul did dissociate because of the shame complex, but I was able to breath for a while. And beneath that I was able to be ignored as not being a "threat" because society thought I was comfortably "trapped" in karma and illusions. But not at that moment, and not now either.

I found other souls who had just as pure loving hearts under dirt that dissociation nurtured purity and love.

And I was witness to the most incredible epiphany.

I'm not alone.

And I found I was the only one in my way.

I found a collection of beautiful loving people underneath dirt who understand the impulse of it, and knew we had the power because we alone had the wisdom to understand the nature of dirt and love.

And don't require the approval of those lost in their ignorance.

Because love, God, and empathy and grace and discernment evaperates illusions, and purposes understands that wounds and communal responsibility may divide us, but they also provide clarity and discernment so that love and grace shows that hatred and illusions don't exist.

And that those who try to make it about something outside of ourselves instead of the genuine shame mechanism that it is has a connundrum.

We own our shit, which means we've escaped it through wisdom.

If you believe that any of us likes violating our own people, rather than just playing devil's advocate to bring the truth out, then you would be in danger of feeding the cycle I'm describing.

Not admitting to your own addictive tendencies so as to escape them.

That's the difference between people pleasing and karmic cleansing.

Karmic cleansing feeds my humanity and breaks the shame cycle.

People pleasing, by contrast, feeds the illusion that shame and karma has anything to do with pleasing the people I hurt, instead of doing the right thing that nurtures my humanity.

I've done cleansing and sometimes found the illusionist on the other side to sometimes just be a huckster, but the universe only allowed that equalizing knowledge once I purged myself from dirt and shame by nurturing my humanity.



Once that work was done, the equalizing information of perverted motives on the other end of that karma set me free.

Sometimes though I've also found a lot more grateful loving people than the so called CoS would have me believe.

Dirt clogged loving souls grateful for release from shame cycles were more common than ignorance.

Which challenges many ideological assumptions made by CoS.

Karma cleansing and self human affirmation is a freedom only I am able to give myself that replaced the shame cycle that made a people pleasing person eternal prey.

In that space is the eternal protection of love.


Edited by samowens84 (10/02/19 04:38 PM)

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#120375 - 10/02/19 04:40 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
You speak so much of shame, it's a shame you don't live in 200 years earlier puritan era.
But wait, there are legions of you here and now. What is your theory on that?
You can mix sex and NS if you traverse the synapse.

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#120376 - 10/02/19 04:52 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
This reminds me of a book my dad gave me called "How to beat your dad at chess."

I read some of the book and played my Uncle.



It was a simple checkmate with a bishop and a knight.

He underestimated me and just kept playing.

And in that game I beat him.

He was shocked. He was like "I thought I had them comfortably trapped back there."

And another moment I beat him when he was one move away from beating me and he threw a fake tantrum.

Some Jungian shit. Ha.

I wonder who was the priest and who was the knight?


Edited by samowens84 (10/02/19 05:04 PM)

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#120377 - 10/02/19 04:56 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
What I said about NS was honest, but far be it from me to push it down your prude throat.
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#120382 - 10/03/19 01:48 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2118
Loc: Poland
Pray tell me what anything you've written so far has to do with the topic at hand? Did Aeon6 write anything about shame? Your associations and reactions to specific posts are really peculiar. Everything you write here reeks of insecurity and emotional problems you haven't yet worked through. Go visit a therapist. Seriously. She will be more interested in your compulsive and self-absorbed rants than random forum users.

Edited by Czereda (10/03/19 01:56 AM)
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#120391 - 10/04/19 11:23 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
Standards and all.

Globalization only goes that far.
Imitation is the art of copy and paste.
Implementation is restructuring to achieve a common goal.

The first is dumbfounded.
The latter the knowledgeable one.
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#120568 - 10/23/19 03:28 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Rob Taylor]
Wotanson Offline
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Registered: 10/23/19
Posts: 3
I think the idea of strength and the very early goals of the SS are noble. I however think that Socialism of any strain to be rather restricting on individuality especially in the totalitarian vein that NS came out of. It was very puritanical in it's legislation and banned many Occult schools so while the Aesthetic of the NSDAP is "cool" I can't really understand why one on the Left Hand Path would gravitate towards the ideology other than some of the more Occult leanings and the aesthetics itself.

I won't go as far as saying Mein Kampf is unreadable I rather enjoyed it.


Edited by Wotanson (10/23/19 03:29 PM)

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#120586 - 10/24/19 01:45 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Wotanson]
aeon6 Offline
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Loc: København, Denmark
Marxism itself and NS can be mutually exclusive under ideal conditions. To extricate the first from the latter's extremes or from thin air, in order to avoid Stalin or Mao murderous pogroms executed in the name of socialist future. If there is to be justice in the future, there must have been injustice in the past- or so a fatalist would have you believe.

There is a difference between doing evil in the hope that good may come of it, and seeking to turn someone else's evil to good use. Socialists did not perpetrate capitalism and are innocent of its crimes, but since it exists it seems rational to make the best of it. All while understanding that the system breeds freedom as well as barbarism, emancipation along with enslavement.

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#120597 - 10/25/19 08:32 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Marxism itself and NS can be mutually exclusive under ideal conditions. To extricate the first from the latter's extremes or from thin air, in order to avoid Stalin or Mao murderous pogroms executed in the name of socialist future. If there is to be justice in the future, there must have been injustice in the past- or so a fatalist would have you believe.

There is a difference between doing evil in the hope that good may come of it, and seeking to turn someone else's evil to good use. Socialists did not perpetrate capitalism and are innocent of its crimes, but since it exists it seems rational to make the best of it. All while understanding that the system breeds freedom as well as barbarism, emancipation along with enslavement.


Lotta squirming in there.

Everyone had a crime before them.

And everyone can be labeled "guilty."

You either can own your actions and let the results speak for themselves, or some may attempt to try and seem less heinous by attempting to point out the crimes of others to compensate for a weak vision.

One should not start pleading their case until the results can speak for themselves.

If they can't, then it's best to just do, and wait till they can.

Or if it's a past failure one's compensating for, then accept that failure and understand that a philosophy doesn't matter as much as the results.

The artist doesn't matter as much as the creation.

Feelings of intellectual or artistic inadequacy isn't the responsibility of others.

People want to live simply. To love their families, and provide a better future and not concern themselves with crimes of the past.

Everyone has some dirt in their past, but the strong don't look for someone with the cleanest past, but with the best chance at a clean future.

Where they're loved ones are safe and have a bright future.

Arguing for who's got more blood on their hands or who deserved more blame is someone arguing for an inferior future.

That's transparent weakness.

Looking for the "bright side of defeat" isn't strong.

On the other hand, accepting a personal darkness isn't the same as defeat. It's admitting you have more work to do.

Not accepting personal darkness is a defeat.

And that's a choice.

With still no one to blame but oneself.


This is a choice some have.

To either A: Beg others to drown themselves so you don't have too, or B: Accept your personal moment under water and swim to the other side.

For someone who understands themselves well, will understand option B is the only option.

Weakness and strength isn't about having the courage to do what's right, but having the mental strength to see the options clearly and being able to accept that the "hardest" option is actually the easiest one available and being able to make the decision and take action.

The alternative is to look around for someone to convince you why you don't have too.



Edited by samowens84 (10/25/19 08:41 AM)

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#120605 - 10/25/19 05:11 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Wotanson]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
I think the idea of strength and the very early goals of the SS are noble.


What is "noble" about bogus racial science? Trying to create a fantasy world according to some aesthetic works as entertainment, but that's not a good model for structuring society.

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
I however think that Socialism of any strain to be rather restricting on individuality especially in the totalitarian vein that NS came out of.


The NSDAP only came to power with the help of wealthy business owners (who weren't socialists). The basis of German Nationalism was always restricting individuals and cultural elements that the various nationalist groups didn't like. It was the typical bully point-of-view that you yourself will be happier when you have the power to restrict liberty of people whose pursuit of happiness heads in a different direction from yours.

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
It was very puritanical in it's legislation...


To be expected for a social standard derived from the Old Testament, by way of Protestant Fundamentalism.

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
... and banned many Occult schools...


This is surprising?

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
so while the Aesthetic of the NSDAP is "cool"...


Do you mean the stuff that was part of the Art Moderne movement happening at the time, or the bad boy Clockwork Brown Shirt dress code? Not to say that NS Germany didn't have some great designers. Allach made some fab Art Deco dinnerware I saw in an online image from one of their print catalogs.

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
...I can't really understand why one on the Left Hand Path would gravitate towards the ideology other than some of the more Occult leanings and the aesthetics itself.


If by LHP you mean the traditions of several East Asian cultures, I doubt that there was (or is) any attraction. If you refer to the so-called "Western Left Hand Path", that's a late 20th Century construct, with about as much substance as the Merry Marvel Marching Society of about the same age. You may not be aware, but people have been discussing the attraction of Hitler and his gang for the "Western LHP" online for over 30 years now! Which pre-dates access to the internet.

 Originally Posted By: Wotanson
I won't go as far as saying Mein Kampf is unreadable I rather enjoyed it.


No, not unreadable. My dad read it for a high school research paper on totalitarianism in the late 1930s, along with the Communist Manifesto. Dunno, but you might get suspended from public school these days for even admitting to having touched the book, much less read any of it.
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#120606 - 10/25/19 06:43 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
samowens84 Online
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
Cross racial relations are often sentimental naive self-destructive relationships when children are typically the victims.

Races aren't just skin color. Even in terms of materialistic concerns, it's different family dynamics, different social concerns, and if in some cases when one race were more well off than another, just a war stratagem. When the motherhood of another race might have been targeted for unfeeling vengeful purposes.

I'll mention white/black racial relations because I've seen both sides.

When some black men talked about the black female womb having been exploited by my ancestors, and then watching some white women almost having died or having nearly betrayed their family while having had offspring from black men, had found themselves thrown under the bus when it came for a black man to choose between the mother of their child and years of cultural resentment.

I've had black men point blank tell me that splitting the father from the daughter was just a cynical war strategy, and nothing more.

Others had told me that because of what they thought was success of this kind of strategy, that love was simply a weakness, and nothing more.

This demeaned love and motherhood of both communities, while robbing black motherhood of faith in their responsibilities.

Having children by these unions makes for a hard life for them who may not know who to love when both families might conceivably if not hate each other, were at least at war.

And it worked the other way too. Black women had mentioned to me in private that they preffered white men because, in their words, were more "considerate" and acted more like a "gentleman" than the black men in their communities.

It may or may not seem harmless, but that's black women who gave up on their men and decided to jump ship and gave up trying to nurture good men.

These were things that concerned and still concern both black and white folks in terms of potentially destructive influences that cross ratial relations can nurture when both communities were still damaged and suspicious of each other.

It also invited other racial groups that came to try and exploit those differences in divide and conquer strategies.

As one black man once said, the only thing he felt changed were the clothes.

If one defines "National Socialism" as respecting and avoiding poisonous dynamics that hurt both communities, then the only point made in the above response, though it may appeal to some former popular opinions, didn't even address the legitimate concerns.

The above post is mainly a red herring that brings up abuses that implied that there was no solution, but that isn't the case.

More people agree that some racial separation is healthy, even if it goes against an ideology of doing whatever.

There's a head in the sand attitude that advocates those kind of relations that ignore painful hostilities that make such unions irresponsible.

It's one thing to address racial sensitivities with respect that helps to solve problems and compassionate understanding, and another to avoid the issue and rationalize toxic behavior.

I've seen a lot of progress on this issue also, where those who had this kind of pain owning it and taking responsibility and limiting the damage done by focusing on healing our own immediate families. And I've seen a lot of healthy healing and dialogue and the world seems better for it.

Good things happen when people care more about a better future and taking responsibility for healing pain from the past. And optimistically I've seen this have positive healing results.

And so to go against the grain of what may have been said, people seem to have taken the insights of national socialism in a way that created positive results.


Edited by samowens84 (10/25/19 06:49 PM)

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#120611 - 10/25/19 09:27 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
You're neglecting your offspring by being here.
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#120612 - 10/25/19 09:34 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
No.

I'm not.

But ignorance has no power and so hating it is unnecessary.


Edited by samowens84 (10/25/19 09:36 PM)

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#120613 - 10/25/19 10:30 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
If you insist.
I agree that hating ignorance is a waste, but to despise it is a different flavour for needed action. Putting tolerance to the test involves dealing now with you know what.

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#120617 - 10/26/19 08:19 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
If you insist.
I agree that hating ignorance is a waste, but to despise it is a different flavour for needed action. Putting tolerance to the test involves dealing now with you know what.


There's a difference between loving truth and despising ignorance.

For instance, a question you can think about if you want.

Do you care about getting better or are you only interested in looking for excuses to not get better?

That involves the peculiar position of despising the ignorance of those who may or may not understand you as a distraction from facing your own truth.

The logic is as follows, and this doesn't manifest anything, just want you to look at the logic on a mundane level.

If people don't understand you then you can afford to be stupid.

If no one lives up to the strength you need then you can afford to be self-destructive and cynical.

And of course this logic is stupid. Like a child looking for a parent to take care of them.

You probably know this, but sometimes truths need to be said. Growing up is deciding to be your own parent.

You have the ability to reject that logic and face your own truth with strength and claim your own personal honor in spite of other opinions of your character.

Whether you choose too is up to you.

You can choose to be stupid or wise with no one to blame but you.

You gotta know where you want to get too and look beyond people and be the strength and love you need. And accept the truths that others say, even if you think your a hypocrite, and take responsibility to live up to it instead to shame cynicism and hypocricy.

That's the best revenge. That takes real grit though.

The anger at hypocrites I find is rooted in deep rooted fear of moving beyond the comfort zone of people you might consider authority figures. Looking to find a womb to crawl back into because the world might seem too scary for you and perhaps resent when someone might suggest that you resist that impulse and create your own womb.

Healing vibrations in that genuine womb in the earth are naturally connected to people who's healing is naturally connected to your own, but when this is avoided it typically manifests into finding another place to express that natural impulse that lead to trying to heal those you might have no business healing.

People pleasing with no end game.

But the earth provides healing vibrations with healthy boundaries.

The earth provides rules of courtesy and self-respect that allows for people to respect and shield oneself from the toxic differences of others.

When this is avoided, one had previously lost the ability to trust that and instead relied on fusing and codependency that blurs those boundaries that may open you up to harm.

There's a very subtle distinction between healthy self respect and mutual healing, and temporarily comfortable self-destruction.

The "phoenix" path of death and rebirth is like skipping rocks across the pond. If the rock doesn't make it to shore, it sinks.




Edited by samowens84 (10/26/19 09:01 AM)

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#120618 - 10/26/19 09:40 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
This whole "bros before hoes" made me laugh, because mostly I've only challenged a woman to do the right thing, and the "bro" was just a person who enabled them to avoid doing the right thing.

I may love you and know I'm not meant to be with you.

If such a person comes to me they won't find sex, but a gate for them to find themselves.

A gracious friendship, some undercurrent of romance. (Some experiences make that impossible to avoid.)

But you have a home you need to build. Bottom line, otherwise you'll end up homeless.

You're not a master or a slave.

I mean, if you're a leader.

People follow courage. People follow moral integrity.

I do sometimes get a vibe from you that seems to suggest you think you're too weak to do that. That anxiety and self-destructive energy will stay with you until you prove yourself wrong.

If you don't have that, you'll end up used up and alone.

On another note, I don't think you need to go to as deep of dark waters as I had too to get to the same place, but that potentially your sense of narcissism might associate what you think I gained with how much shit I had to take.

Narcissistic logic can fuck you every time.

Separate the need for glory from getting to a good place, and you'll be all right.

You taught me humility.

(Maybe it doesn't look like I'm showing it now, but perhaps all this is just my sense of protective instincts that seem to have been well formed over the past few years, but that doesn't make it wrong.)

Point is, that quietly navigating relationships and perhaps taking a more grey middle approach to healing your actual twin, not just your karmic one.

(If you wonder why I say these things to you so point blank its because you seem to have a self-toxic way of avoiding personal evolution unless someone just tells you. It's not that I think you're stupid, or don't already understand these things. It's that you're sometimes prone to weakness and getting stuck in a comfortable rut and needed someone to actually believe in you to get your but in gear, like someone did for me. I used to resent that person, until suddenly I started believing in myself and being more confident in my abilities.)





Edited by samowens84 (10/26/19 10:33 AM)

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#120639 - 10/27/19 04:54 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
I'm glad you've got me more figured out than you have yourself.
Check mate. Because your function in any NS construct would be menial- or is it not already? You give a servile drift.

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#120640 - 10/27/19 05:12 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
samowens84 Online
active member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 660
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
I'm glad you've got me more figured out than you have yourself.
Check mate. Because your function in any NS construct would be menial- or is it not already? You give a servile drift.


If you imagine I don't, that's only because of the limitations of your own psychology, a personal need.

What that personal need is, that's your business.

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#120643 - 10/28/19 12:35 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: samowens84]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4016
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Why is this guy still here.

I feel like the standards of this place have fallen so far the very last standard left has rusted away to nothing.

It's sad remembering what this place once was.
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#120644 - 10/28/19 12:44 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 339
Loc: SoCal
lol... I know. This place died like back in 2012. It's now rotting, and the users here are just maggots. Did I say maggots? I meant faggots.

As a side note:

I was just thinking a moment ago, while I was making my coffee and trying to breathe out of my stuffed nose from allergies, that if God didn't make mouths for us, and we got the common cold where our nose was stuffed: it'd be a life and death situation. Because we'd have no mouth as an alternative means of respiration!

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#120645 - 10/28/19 09:45 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Caladrius]
Spida Offline
member


Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 203
Loc: Maine
What you said reminds me of a few years ago when I had a cold or something. Stuffy nose, but not only that I had a sore throat, maybe it was strep or something. I could actually feel and observe on the inside that my throat was beginning to swell a bit. Scary, and most likely not a fun way to die, plus I despise hospitals.

Only happened once in all my years. I suppose ears, nose, and throat are all connected so any or all of those could be affected. Once in a while my ears used to get fucked up from the common cold. Fluid gets in the middle ear and messes with your hearing, not anymore though.

I would think tea would be better than coffee. The Yerba Mate is pretty good. It's an alternative stimulant for those of us who have become tolerant to caffeine over the years.

So get well. I'm sure you still have a lot of writing to do.
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#120646 - 10/28/19 10:32 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Spida]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 339
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Spida


So get well. I'm sure you still have a lot of writing to do.


Thank you Spida.

I enjoy reading your posts here. You're the only one here who's on the same wavelength as me! Observation. Verification. Replication.

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#120647 - 10/28/19 11:54 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Caladrius]
Kori Houghton Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/15
Posts: 182
Loc: East Coast USA
For allergies, I recommend a negative ion generator.

My late husband bought me a room-sized air cleaner with an optional generator for my cubicle in a "sick building" back in the 1980s. I still have it in my bedroom. Am considering another one for my office because my cat sleeps in there, and he snores something fierce when the weather is sunny, windy, and dry.

For allergy symptoms, I swear by green tea (or coffee), a single dose of 200 mg ibuprofen, and my negative ion generator.
_________________________
Only Man cares for Man; the Universe doesn't give a shit. -- Marcelo Ramos Motta

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#120648 - 10/28/19 01:04 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Caladrius]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Neti pot is very helpful.
But use purified water or you risk Naegleria fowleri, a brain eating amoeba.

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#120649 - 10/28/19 02:27 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Caladrius]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
Considering this purely hypothetical situation I'd dare say many will survive.
Many talk from their ass anyways.
Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to have them breath the same way.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#120650 - 10/28/19 02:33 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Kori Houghton]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 339
Loc: SoCal
Thank you everybody. I love green tea actually. I'll be fine!
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#120656 - 10/29/19 02:03 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dan_Dread]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1556
Loc: Ca
 Quote:
Why is this guy still here.

I feel like the standards of this place have fallen so far the very last standard left has rusted away to nothing.

It's sad remembering what this place once was.


Because everything that made it fun was deemed hurtful and/or unwanted bully behavior, rounded up, and flushed down a toilet of following along. For people ganging up on others, and most heinous of all, noticing differences.

Based on all that happened and the end result of everyone huffing freon, it is my determination it was killed deliberately for being an environment that thrived on belittling difference and underscoring mutual exclusion.  For that it was subversively condemned and destroyed from within.

Apart from that...

 Cult of Personalities are needed to bring life to places and make people want to post. 

Like it or not, You could bring back interest just by misanthropic style and being Dan Dread. (See Caladrius response) You said it yourself, you are interesting, and there needs to be an heir apparent to Diavolo for this site to return. Unfortuneately no one has come close. And if they could would they even want or take that role?

And those who do strive to be a cult of personality are so entitled, toxic, or annoying that it's more or less varying degrees of Samowens.

Sadly, that which could bring it back is the reason it was so easy to dismantle. (See world political stage for example)

Too much deference to where minds are like.
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#120661 - 10/29/19 01:09 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: CanisMachina42]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 365
Dan’s too much of a pussy, too busy enjoying the smell of his own farts.
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#120685 - 10/31/19 08:32 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dark Light 444]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4016
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Hah.

Maybe.

Or maybe the sort of interesting dialogue that draws me out to post seriously just doesn't exist here anymore. Gone with all of those capable of producing it.

So now, on some of the days that I remember this place even exists, I'll occasionally stop by and shoot a tin can off of a fencepost as I mosey on by.
_________________________



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#120690 - 10/31/19 10:29 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dark Light 444 Offline
member


Registered: 08/02/17
Posts: 365
Fair enough. I still show up here in hopes to see you do just that, or to see if the old Set Master has a new interview to share. Not much of anything else to see here.
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#120742 - 11/06/19 11:24 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Dark Light 444]
Bartho LeMule Offline
member


Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 133
The Anagrammic Gematria of "National Socialism."

Rearranging the letters of 'national socialism' gives:

"Silicon as to animal."
"Coitional, anal miss."
"A maniac instils loo."
"Insomniac, tail also."
"I am a colossal tin in."
"It, in colossal mania."
"I am a collisions, ant."
"Colonial saint aims."
"Lilac as to insomnia."
"I an animalist cools."
"Cool! A sin animalist."
"I colonialism Satan."
"I'm satanic loon ails."
"In a satanic, slim loo."
"An oscillations aim."
"Lost maniac liaison."
"Alas! To inimical son."
"Is coital animals on."
"Coital mania in loss."
"I'm a son's coital nail."
"Is coital as nominal."
"I'm coital nasal in so."
"Coital liaison mans."
"Oil an anal stoicism."
"It is nasal, I'm a colon."
"Coital, anal mission."
"Coital moans in ails."
"I'm anal as to silicon."
"O Man! Is coital snail."
"Illicit ass on a moan."
"Alas! It is main colon."
"I'm cool, is anal saint."
"Oi! Local in Satanism."

These are the longest words/phrases that use some of the letters:
"national socialism", "localisations", "socialisation",
"assimilation", "oscillations", "localisation",
"animalistic", "allocations", "anomalistic", "association",
"colonialism", "colonialist", "oscillation", "nationalism",
"anti-social", "collisions", "allocation", "anatomical",
"animations", "coalitions", "insomniacs", "ionisation",
"nostomania", "annalistic", "talismanic", "animalist",
"coitional", "insomniac", "collision", "maintains."
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#120748 - 11/07/19 04:31 AM Re: National Socialism [Re: Bartho LeMule]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1556
Loc: Ca
I Like Anagrams too.

Only I chose Liberal Welfare State for mine.

Restartable freewill
Few relatable realist
Reliable waste, falter
Raw teets are fallible
Ai, We'll tee feral brats
Elite warfare ball sets
Fertile ratable walls
Fertile Lew Alabaster
All beer, we're fatalist
All awe, bestial ferret
A labeler waste filter
A sterile wafer ballet
Refillable sweat, tear

And so on...

Too tired, longest esoteric word found, "Restartable"...
_________________________
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Sea level
11:56 PM July, 1st 2019
Wrote Signature

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#120786 - 11/12/19 12:56 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: CanisMachina42]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Fun and vaguely revealing as anagrams are, acronyms are more pervasive in a state of NS or otherwise. The funniest ones were not intended to be so and become the most endearing for political purposes. They are signifiers now as pretzels and knives indicated bakeries and butchers in the middle ages for the illiterate.
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#120846 - 11/22/19 06:29 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: aeon6]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 580
You are all completely retarded. Totally retarded.
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Medulla oblongata

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#120848 - 11/22/19 07:15 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: fiendish]
Spida Offline
member


Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 203
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: fiendish
You are all completely retarded. Totally retarded.


Yeah, but in a Rain Man kinda way.
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#120856 - 11/23/19 09:07 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Spida]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: København, Denmark
Funny underwear and lots of money. I'm innocent of the first but what a mixed blessing.
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#120906 - 11/30/19 01:33 PM Re: National Socialism [Re: Spida]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 580
No, you are all retarded in the way you should be locked up and suffer electric shocks until your consciousness comes back from Hell. Or where the fuck it was.
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