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#117720 - 12/12/18 12:58 AM insomnia super villains and bible quotes.
Strange Eden Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 19
Loc: Baltimore
For the last week and a half I've been stuck between three thoughts that keep my eyes wide open in the wee hours of the night.

The first is Matthew 13:10 where jesus's boys ask him why he speaks to the villagers in parables rather than giving them the straight uncoded doctrine. He says to his homies "because these people wouldn't accept it as it is, if they hear it in a story and are able to see the point, than they will be wiser for it. If not, I told them a good story". Pretty much something like that.

The second thing is Harley Quinn from the Batman franchise. There are so many things that keep me awake about her. The way she is misrepresented as a positive female role model when she is in fact a victim of abuse and psychological torment. She is not something to idolize nor is her relationship with the joker anything to aspire to. Another aspect of her character is the fact that she was written into the franchise much later and given an origin that rewrote a time line in the evolution of the joker. She started out as a small role in the animated series in 1992 and was brought into the comic book by demand of fandom. She is not actually "Cannon" in the classical sense of the word...

The third thing that has been eating at me this last couple of weeks is the idolization and worship of the Lilith concept. In the alphabet of Ben Sira (written well after the torah and said to be a work of satire) Lilith wants absolutely nothing to do with man, or his ideas of who gets on top so she says the name of god takes the fuck off and curses herself to dead babies and lame sex forever. All because she was far too focused on her own gratification. What's to venerate about that? personally I can't see much.

When I think of a strong willed woman I think of Eve. Her only sin was the desire to know and understand existence. If you wanna play the "religious text is real game" than Eve is in fact the first human to become truly aware of her place in the world.

There now you can stay up thinking about weird shit when you gotta go to work in 3 hours...


Edited by Strange Eden (12/12/18 01:02 AM)

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#117721 - 12/12/18 03:49 AM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Strange Eden]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 457
Everyone has different perspectives. I don't have any feeling regarding your perspective regarding Matthew.

In general it sounds like you seem a bit sad and are coming to grips with personal torment. May to find restful sleep and peace of mind.

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#117729 - 12/12/18 03:02 PM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Strange Eden]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2090
Loc: Poland
I don't know too much about Lilith myth but I wouldn't treat archetypes as some sort of role models. If Eve embodies the nurturing side of nature, Lilith along with other chtonic goddesses and demons represent its destructive side. In my view, they are two sides of the same coin. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, there is no mention of Lilith in the original Bible although it mentions Adam's first wife. However, there is nothing about her being evil. The myth developed later, I think.

Let's not forget that Jesus' audience were simple and illiterate people, not a bunch of sophisticated philosophers. In addition to that, certain esoteric wordless truths can only be hinted at. They cannot be taught or explained.

As for HQ, I think some people might simply regard her as an interesting character, someone thoroughly fucked up but intriguing at the same time. Her life was full of passion, disastrous passion, but passion nonetheless.


Edited by Czereda (12/12/18 03:03 PM)
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#117730 - 12/12/18 03:19 PM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Czereda]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 457
I disagree with your view on Lilith and Eve. Its not nurturing versus destruction. Its independence and responsibility versus dependency. Lilith is just as capable of light as darkness. Just as Eve is capable of both. (Who was it that tempted Adam?) The difference is in the motive for temptation. From my understanding Lilith found it abhorrent that due to Eve's dependency on Adam she was incapable of holding him accountable. When Eve fell, rather then accept responsibility and ask Adam to help her reconcile with God, she was afraid of losing him due to her dependency and instead tempted him to fall so she wouldn't be alone. And Adam, being weak, succumbed, thus justifying Lilith's criticism that men are incapable of being the sole guardian of righteousness.

Lilith was holding Eve accountable for her moral laziness and dependence on Adam. To remove her Rib from Adam so she would be more capable of acting in love and accountability rather then co dependency.

She showed Eve the true nature of dependency. That its weak, destructive, and selfish and that she needs to be more independent so that she might be more able to love Adam, rather then merely depend on him. Eve's dependence on Adam caused Adam to be dependent on Eve, so that neither were capable of taking responsibility for leadership, which is necessary to maintain balance in paradise.

And yes, Lilith may have been a woman scorned. By abandoning her and replacing her with Eve, it was as if she was being told she wasn't good enough. That her independence is selfish. She shows Adam and Eve that she wasn't the problem. That neither Adam nor Eve could run away from themselves by exiling her, because her soul is a mirror for Adam, and to exile her is to exile himself, because his actions, as previously mentioned, proved that her independence was as healthy for him as much as for her. That by refusing her wish to be independent that he was afraid to be independent and own his power also.

My understanding is that Lilith loves Adam and just wanted to show him a better way to love. That she was more interested in balance in paradise, and to save Adam's soul.

Lilith abandoned paradise in order to save Adam and risk being a demon and evil in order to save Eve and Adam. Likely the fall was inevitable, best be done by someone who loved them who can put positive intentions behind the inevitable, rather then risk someone more malevolent to do it instead. She likely tamed the devil by doing so and forced Satan to work for salvation rather then evil because she was quicker off the mark.

Paradise Lost is an alternative history written by a butt hurt patriarch who couldn't stand taking orders from a woman.

Aw above, so below.

My poem "Eve's Apology" never referred to Eve's literal death, only the death of her false persona that her dependence momentarily kept her from achieving.


Edited by samowens84 (12/12/18 03:40 PM)

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#117790 - 12/20/18 09:41 PM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Czereda]
Strange Eden Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 19
Loc: Baltimore

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
I don't know too much about Lilith myth but I wouldn't treat archetypes as some sort of role models. If Eve embodies the nurturing side of nature, Lilith along with other chtonic goddesses and demons represent its destructive side. In my view, they are two sides of the same coin. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, there is no mention of Lilith in the original Bible although it mentions Adam's first wife. However, there is nothing about her being evil. The myth developed later, I think.

Let's not forget that Jesus' audience were simple and illiterate people, not a bunch of sophisticated philosophers. In addition to that, certain esoteric wordless truths can only be hinted at. They cannot be taught or explained.

As for HQ, I think some people might simply regard her as an interesting character, someone thoroughly fucked up but intriguing at the same time. Her life was full of passion, disastrous passion, but passion nonetheless.


The first wife myth comes from the fact that there are some differing versions of creation of humans in genesis. There is an account of a single androgynous being that was split in to two and then there is the myth of two people of opposite gender being created at the same time. The Lilith Myth comes in waaaaay later in the aphabet of Ben Sari (as I said) and some people view that particular work as satire or parody. With that knowledge on the table, as I look at groups and people and rituals they have made honoring Lilith I must raise an eyebrow and think a little too hard about it.

I don't really have a point to prove or an aim to change minds I just had a weird observation that wouldn't leave my head..

For HQ.. In my "line of work" (I draw and make things for other people) I run into a lot of "horror housewives" and "lil spookies" who elevate the living snot out of her because well... She's got an exciting life and doesn't have to change diapers or take midterms. She gets seemingly do whatever pleases her at the moment and that makes people forget what she really is. An abuse victim...

If you look at Lilith I mean really really take a deep look at the mythology behind her she too is an abused woman. All she wanted was a little equality and she got turned into a baby killin' demon.

Either way we just had a serious conversation of fictional beings that effect the psyche of women in ways that they were never originally designed to do.
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#117877 - 12/31/18 08:09 AM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Strange Eden]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3311
So it is banality that keeps you awake.
Get priorities straight. The ideas of others are nothing to lose sleep over.

An indication you're not doing things properly.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#117887 - 01/01/19 02:46 AM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Dimitri]
CanisMachina42 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1352
Loc: CA
#1 - It is a writing device to cover a plot hole.

"Why don't you be strait forawrd, Jesus" is a cop out used to cover for the ambiguity and ensure its use thereafter.

Nostradamus exploited the same thing. The River Hister is an archaic name for The Rhone River, but it's so ambiguous a two letter discrepancy makes him the prophet that predicted Hitler.

#2 - Antihero. The damage is always ripped from society. Harley is archetype of the 14 year old dating a 29 year old drug dealer.

#3 - Is it any wonder most associate Lilith with comfortable footwear and dog kennels? The sapphic rejection of men is apparent. That also may be its appeal.
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#117965 - 01/08/19 08:12 PM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Dimitri]
Strange Eden Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 19
Loc: Baltimore
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
So it is banality that keeps you awake.
Get priorities straight. The ideas of others are nothing to lose sleep over.

An indication you're not doing things properly.



During the waking hours, my mortgage is paid, home, yard, pets and self are cared for, my business is maintained and all the while i am paying extremely close attention to all of the news. Real, fake, mainstream or peer sources. Every second of my waking life i am BOMBARDED with death, doom, gloom, and stupidity beyond words. I am so fucking aware of what "i should be thinking about" that i get told to calm the fuck down before i have a heart attack... So excuse me for letting a tiny little bit of pleasurable nonsense into the world.
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Do what you gotta. Just don't fuck up my hair.

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#118009 - 01/10/19 11:44 PM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Dimitri]
Strange Eden Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 19
Loc: Baltimore
One more thing. I'd like to thank you very very much for coming onto a topic you had no intention of adding anything at all to just to tell us all how offended you are that someone you do not know has enough brain power to think past whatever you consider "priorities". So yeah thanks for rollin' on up and fucking up what could have been a perfectly nice conversation meant to divert people from what they can not change in life....
So very swell of ya.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
So it is banality that keeps you awake.
Get priorities straight. The ideas of others are nothing to lose sleep over.

An indication you're not doing things properly.

_________________________
Do what you gotta. Just don't fuck up my hair.

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#118010 - 01/11/19 12:26 AM Re: insomnia super villains and bible quotes. [Re: Strange Eden]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3311
Solutions never stem from delusions.
Shoot straight and you'll hit target.

That and grow some fucking skin.
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