Page 1 of 2 12>
Topic Options
#118411 - 02/04/19 09:06 PM Defection
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1250
Loc: Austin, TX
Honor is loyalty, and loyalty is handling shit internally. Disputes within the group stay in the group.

But all too often, "handling shit internally" leads to shit not getting handled at all. The Catholic church just shuffles around its kiddie-fiddlin' priests. Cops do jack about internal corruption, yet hate a snitch as much as any other group of thugs when said snitch is ratting out one of their own.

Every group has its butt-monkey, and the only self-respecting thing for said butt-monkey to do is say, "Fuck this group; I want out." Or heck, maybe even if you've got it made within the group, there's some reason not to like it.

So where do you draw that line? When does self-respect trump the concept of honor and in-group loyalty?

What is Satan, if not a defector?

_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lšsst

Top
#118412 - 02/04/19 09:45 PM Re: Defection [Re: XiaoGui17]
samowens84 Online
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 460
You will meet someone who you fall in love with. Not in the mundane way that people understand that people redirect for growth to depersonalize it. You will meet someone who will make you forget every ideology and purpose of everything you thought you knew.

I had met someone once who showed me there was no path, no culture, no group that could ever matter in place of complete surrender to this one person. One night I was in a position where I had to choose between death or abandon love. I had chosen death, and found life. Because I decided any world that outlawed love was not worth living in, and I couldn't understand anyone else who thought differently.

If you don't find this, you haven't loved.

All other bullshit aside, anyone who punishes another people or person for love is wrong. End of. Period. Everything else is just a bullshit excuse.

Find this, and nothing else will be as important as making love possible in your world, because nothing else matters.

You will find this, and it will awaken you and make life worth living for you again. All else is ignorance and bitterness and defeat.

In plain terms this kind of love provides understanding that separates you from the rest of the world while making you understand how connected everything and everyone is.

Once you know that, there will be a permanent divide between you and most of the world. It provides peace and independence, even through sadness, loneliness and strife.

The only way I can describe it is that everything the world thinks is so important will suddenly seem small to you.


Edited by samowens84 (02/04/19 10:07 PM)

Top
#118414 - 02/04/19 11:14 PM Re: Defection [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 207
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
 Quote:
Once you know that, there will be a permanent divide between you and most of the world. It provides peace and independence, even through sadness, loneliness and strife.


It seems you've created the divide between self and world. And the more forlorn aspects of existence. How is peace/independence augmented through the despairing metaphors you propose? No need to answer but I suggest you take valerian root for a night, then a long hot bath with pine needle oil as a camphorous agent. You'll sleep like a comatose infant and awake anew.

Why divorce and divide yourself from the world at large? It's a garden of flesh.

Top
#118415 - 02/05/19 02:19 AM Re: Defection [Re: XiaoGui17]
Phoenician Offline
member


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 125
Loc: CA
 Quote:

So where do you draw that line? When does self-respect trump the concept of honor and in-group loyalty?


Unlike society at large, a group worth being loyal to operates on the same page. The one place you can use "like mind". If you are the only one NOT on that same page, that group is NOT YOURS.

When you are treated like the meme monkey it is time to clang out of that shit, or realize you are not respected and keep the salt shaker handy.

And because you said "Honor is loyalty" I am reminded of that social experiment a few years back.  Remember all the folk not knowing what was up in the slightest still showing "loyalty" in hope they might get a pat on the back?

Honor in a situation like that really is beating someone with a pool cue until they have detached retinas. Empathy being reserved for the strait-up.
_________________________
This is reckoning day
Yesterday is dead and gone

Top
#118416 - 02/05/19 02:41 AM Re: Defection [Re: Phoenician]
Tom Satanic Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 41
@aeon: You know what your brain is? A garden of shit, and so are your writings. GTFO.

Same with SamOw: Take your diary entries somewhere THE FUCK ELSE.

As for the topic, these things often have pre-established rules, but those are always treated more like "guidelines" whenever possible. While everyone is in a frenzy over left vs. right, and superbowl sunday, The Boogeyman is watching your pathetic ass...

https://youtu.be/loLSdh26V5I

For some who coven foundational values, treating it like a "guideline" just doesn't work. One has to wonder about the personal gain one acquires in the act of whistle-blowing. Fame, admiration, and public praise, but at the same time, punishment, and resentment. Some kind of personal trait here is to be scrutinized for sure, one that is persuaded differently than all the others.


Edited by Tom Satanic (02/05/19 03:11 AM)

Top
#118417 - 02/05/19 02:56 AM Re: Defection [Re: Tom Satanic]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 207
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
tom the "satanic": either you are jealous of a phenomena alien to you and have no recourse other than to flout your impotence, or are simply inept at deciphering more subtle messages of your environment. Which I suspect is limited to mundane things, PITY.
Top
#118418 - 02/05/19 03:07 AM Re: Defection [Re: aeon6]
Tom Satanic Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 41
You'd do well to learn English grammar a little better before typing, just saying.

Mundane, like yourself? There is hardly any substance in what you new people are writing here, save for making an example of prime retardation. You think your speaking in some higher code that people have to "decipher?." Are you Twelve years old?! GTFOH.

I have yet to see you, SW, or DL make anything that constitutes a rational thought. Even that weirdo Fiendish has managed a few posts with more insight than all three of you combined, and that's really pathetic.

You don't offer anything to me except an opportunity to bait you into showing what a complete ass you are. Certainly nothing of substance that would warrant pity.

*Look, I don't even like bashing people all the time, believe it, or not. I am sincere when I say, that the new people are just lacking on intellectual foundation. Read, look into things, offer something that isn't a shitty attempt at insult, or some random bogus crap that doesn't make any sense.


Edited by Tom Satanic (02/05/19 03:20 AM)

Top
#118419 - 02/05/19 03:20 AM Re: Defection [Re: Tom Satanic]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 207
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
It's quite revealing of you to tell me to gtfo.
Am I such a threat? You must be american, the whole us vs them mentality. Look at your country, full of angst and irreversible putridness.

Top
#118420 - 02/05/19 03:28 AM Re: Defection [Re: aeon6]
Tom Satanic Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 41
Ah, again... you're just not even making sense. Not a threat, dude, you give yourself waaayy too much credit. Just annoying. Vacuous. Let me tell you what I mean: You tell me I need to learn to spell, yet can't even manage to capitalize the first letter of your sentences, and now when I call you out, you're just going to make up some more bullshit about America being evil. I think you're just a troll at this point, but whatever, your loss. The difference between you and me, honor wise, is that, unlike you, mine is grounded in sound rationality.

Edited by Tom Satanic (02/05/19 03:28 AM)

Top
#118421 - 02/05/19 03:38 AM Re: Defection [Re: Tom Satanic]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 207
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
Yet you waste so much energy on me, as if your life depended on it.
Why is that?
The future will never know.

Top
#118422 - 02/05/19 03:49 AM Re: Defection [Re: aeon6]
Tom Satanic Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 41
Again, giving yourself too much credit, and doing nothing in your case by rationally defending any real point, but there wasn't one to begin with, was there?

I do though, actually wonder, why the fuck some of you are here. That does have my head in a perplexed tilt, and a white-male-privilaged SMIRK to boot. It's something that I can't help but wonder when I see you guys posting, call it a fetish, a poor obsession. I just wonder. So there, looks like the future/present reader knows my end of it, but the question to your motives remains.

Like, what are you doing, what are you beating on about?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBhfmhxh2AQ



Edited by Tom Satanic (02/05/19 03:53 AM)

Top
#118423 - 02/05/19 04:08 AM Re: Defection [Re: Tom Satanic]
aeon6 Offline
member


Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 207
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
Now I know your mentality with that video.
As for the site, I'll speak for all in echoing your word: [not any word you'd comprehend].
Language is key, and what I detect of you is a trailer-trash wannabe pseudo-satanist.
Living either in tenement or vast suburbia with persistent rage issues. Don't ever cross you, because you are one of the compatriots there who support the death penalty.

Top
#118427 - 02/05/19 02:09 PM Re: Defection [Re: aeon6]
MindFck Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nno6SAYDfx8
_________________________
We all have a Monster within; the difference is in degree, not in kind.

Top
#118428 - 02/05/19 03:30 PM Re: Defection [Re: XiaoGui17]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2092
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Honor is loyalty. And loyalty is handling shit internally.


You've made a definitive statement although the concept of honor varies from culture to culture. For example, honor killings or the punishment of the Muslim women for adultery don't have to involve only the woman's family. Thus the supposed betrayal of one's husband, relative or Allah doesn't stay within the family but becomes the matter of interest for the community.

Honor is relevant mostly for the collective cultures. Here, it has become a sort of a buzzword. In my view, personal integrity is always more important than the ethics of any group you're affiliated with. Personal judgement stands above the judgement of the group. If you get entangled in other people's bullshit, it is not that easy to leave. There is always the possibility of blackmail "You want to leave? Fine. If you air our dirty laundry, we will air yours." This goes for all the groups that sweep the dirt under the rug. If your dirt is under that rug too, you will have a problem. This is what might happen if you compromise your own system of ethics in favor of group's morals and then you want to break free.

I don't want to sound romantic and moralizing like Sam Owens but all those seemingly pathetic platitudes, like "Stay true to yourself" and "Listen to your heart" sound to me like most pragmatic in this case.


Edited by Czereda (02/05/19 03:39 PM)
_________________________
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

Top
#118429 - 02/05/19 03:48 PM Re: Defection [Re: Czereda]
samowens84 Online
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 460
There's no explicit contradiction between romanticism and pragmatism.

I'm both.

And to express something we have in common, yes, personal ethics is always more important than the group you're affiliated with.

The honor of personal integrity, in my view, would be that in a moment of Truth when the opportunity presents itself, you must be willing to suffer all of the consequences of breaking free.

This isn't expressly "moral" in that the timing to be willing to suffer the possibility of those consequences must be perfect to give one the greatest opportunity for success.

It's easier to keep your integrity then to get it back though. That much is definitely true.

But once most of these issues become revealed to be a problem on a structural scale, rather than the problem of any one organization, then it becomes a collective opportunity for everyone to regain their own integrity.


Edited by samowens84 (02/05/19 03:57 PM)

Top
Page 1 of 2 12>


Moderator:  TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.027 seconds of which 0.007 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.