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#11960 - 09/28/08 07:50 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
P.S. sorry folks. I'll post correctly one of these days.

Edited by Nemesis (09/28/08 08:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Double post...if you need a post deleted, just PM a mod, we don't always bite :D
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#11967 - 09/28/08 09:44 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: blsk]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Quote:
I accept it on the authority of the Catholic Church, we take a lot on authority we believe the hollocaust happened on authority of historians etc.
Please don't tell me you're denying the holocaust happened. That would be foolish, seeing as it's documented AND there have been witnesses.

Comparing faith to actual history on this scale is quite sick really.
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#11971 - 09/28/08 11:05 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I am going to have to contest this view.

The vast majority of people, especially Americans, who call themselves "Christians" are usually secular-minded people who have not given their religion much thought. They do not understand everything they profess to believe, and are generally biblically illiterate. The total influence of religion in their lives can be summed up to going to church twice a year for Easter and Christmas. They still identify as Christians, yet many will die without reading through the Bible even once.

And then of course, as Fabiano said, numbers taken from sacramental census don't take apostates into account.

Worldwide, Religious Christianity is growing, true, but mostly in underdeveloped parts of the world like Africa and South America. (it's pretty much a conversion contest between Catholicism and Evangelical Pentecostalism)
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#11975 - 09/29/08 12:10 AM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
I clicked over here thinking this was a discussion about the Satanic Bible the book, but it seems to be more of a "my religious book is better than yours" tennis volley.

To me this kind of thing always misses the essential point, e.g. what's the substance of the book or books? Where did your [and the other fellow's] book come from? Who wrote it/pieced it together? When and why? And finally, why have you decided that it's either interesting or absolutely crucial to you?

We all know about the SB. It began life in 1968 as a collection of mimeographed diatribes which Anton LaVey handed out to new members of the Church. In 1969 Peter Mayer of Avon Books invited him to do a book, so he and his wife Diane redid the mimeo sheets into the "Book of Lucifer", added the membership handouts for basic rituals, and padded it in the front with Ragnar Redbeard's "Might is Right" and in the back with Crowley's version of the Enochian Keys (appropriately Satanized). Anton gave it a vaudevillian sendoff with Yankee Rose, and it was off and running - then at US$.95/copy.

But now we come to the more obscure and fascinating history: that of the Holy Bible. Have you ever wondered how so many people worldwide are so dependent and reliant upon this book without having the slightest idea about its origins? Well, wouldn't you want to know if you were a Christian or a Jew?

Some years ago I came across a very interesting series on PBS: John Romer's Testament. He's a distinguished British archæologist who decided to take viewers on a historical & geographical journey concerning the Bible's origins. It was utterly fascinating. Here's a brief clip to give you the flavor. The last time I looked, the video series was difficult to find and rather expensive, but happily Romer also wrote a companion book, also called Testament, which is readily and budgetarily available. Read more about John Romer here.

No matter what your personal religious preferences, this is a core cultural base of Western civilization, and once you know how it gradually came together from a variety of more ancient Mediterranean, Mesopotamian, and African mythologies; and how it influenced and was modified in accordance with the next two thousand years of Western history; you'll have that much better a grasp of why so many of today's social systems and values "are as they are".

Indeed, after digesting the series and the book, I have often found myself in the mildly amusing position of teaching Christians more about their religion than they knew when they approached me with "conversion & salvation" in mind.
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#11979 - 09/29/08 01:37 AM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: blsk]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Lux, allow me to help you out a little.

If you are here to learn about Satanism or the LHP in general then feel free to ask questions.

However, If you are here to proselytize or preach 'the word' then be gone.

Everyone here can read and we already know the Jesus story. Personally, I like the Monty Python version where Jesus is the bastard son of a Roman soldier. Perhaps you prefer the King James version - to each his own.
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#11986 - 09/29/08 01:03 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: Fist]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Well I don't think Brian was literally supposed to be Jesus, but it does put a humanizing spin on the typically over-romanticized legend of Christ.

To me it seems like Lux is trying to engage in debate, which is fair enough, considering he's been civil so far.
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#11993 - 09/29/08 05:23 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: The Zebu]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
To me it seems like Lux is trying to engage in debate, which is fair enough, considering he's been civil so far.


I fully agree!

However, I think there is a risk to "go in circle" or to just define our respective positions with no chance to change. Why not.

I understand Lux cannot answer all of the points we raised and this slows down the "process of pushing the reasoning/tinking to the end".

I enjoyed debating with Lux. From what I saw up to now, what I retain is mainly :
* His position about assurance of salvation only within the Catholic church is to my eyes dangerously close to a sectarian position.
* In addition, how the Catholic Church's memeber are counted/defined makes it a non-sense (e.g. I'm counted as part of it)
* I found definig "evil" funny & instructive.
* The debate on Satanism, Atheism and other religions positionned more accurately the Stanism in the religions & philosophies landscape.
* We diverge with Lux on the Faith without hope of changing respective positions. He beleives in a new life after dead "just because Christ" said. We do not stop thinking, we do not put our brain in the fridge for just beleive.

Let's wait for next Lux' post... \:\)
*


Edited by Fabiano (09/29/08 05:25 PM)

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#11997 - 09/29/08 07:03 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: Fabiano]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Quite frankly my dears, I felt it got a bit tedious after a while. It got to me the fact that a follower of the Catholic faith had the balls to actually come on here to debate with us. Lux has got respect from me for that manoeuvre, but it still got my back up.

Still, he did provide some intelligent discussion until he decided to preach. Then there was the holocaust remark that really got to me.
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#11998 - 09/29/08 07:34 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: DistroyA]
lux Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
Hi, Just to let you know that I have not forgot this thread, I am tired I have work in the morning.

Before I say good night I just want to appologies to DistroyA for causing him some distess over what I said regarding the hollocaust. I was merely pointing out that I personally have no way of knowing for certain that it did happen because i was not there, just as i was not at the ressurection but i believe in both on the authority of historians and on the catholic church respectivly, interesting that you should mark out the exact same reasons for believing the hollocuast happened as to what the catholic church says about Christs life.... it is well documented, there were witnesses... still i have to agree one is harder to believe than the other..merely because we know men, we are men and are fully aware of what men are capable of, on the other hand the ressurection deals with life after death, God etc something we (as yet) on earth have not got any experiance of. but we know men and men lie...but who would die for a lie?

Good night all, I hope to get round to posting a reply to all our comments soon.


Edited by lux (09/29/08 07:35 PM)

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#12000 - 09/29/08 07:50 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Well, comparing a priest to a qualified historian who has actually done his homework is a little naive, don'tcha think?

And you don't need to apologise for "causing me distress" over a comment. It wasn't distress per se; more anger than anything.

And now you're going full circle yet again about Christ and his life. I'm going for the compromise answer to that argument and say that Jesus Christ the public speaker may well have existed, but it's yet to be fully proven if he's the actual Son of God or not. I'm leaving that argument there, as I think I should moving onto another thread, since I'll just be adding fuel to the fire... *sighs*
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#12001 - 09/29/08 07:54 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Just another question lux. The three colors portrayed in your pic, was that unintentional?
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#12006 - 09/29/08 08:53 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Let's not forget that fact that we have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, ie, pictures, survivors, concentration camps and gas chambers, the attic in which Anne Frank and her family hid for years, compared to a text that was written, edited, and added to, by hundreds of priests and monks and what not over several hundred years, most of whom never even saw Christ. There is just no comparison between the two "histories".
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#12008 - 09/29/08 09:04 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
You can't really compare the two. We have photos of gas chambers and rotting piles of corpses, transcripts of concentration camp executions, millions of eyewitness accounts.... and not so much as a photograph of Jesus walking on water. The only support for Christ's divinity comes from a handful of letters from his followers.

For all the claims Christianity makes, it doesn't have enough evidence for us to put faith in it.


Edited by The Zebu (09/29/08 09:08 PM)
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#12011 - 09/29/08 09:31 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: The Zebu]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Yes, you have witnesses just the same as that John fellow witnessed an angel coming to him telling him to write the book of mormon
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#12012 - 09/29/08 09:42 PM Re: The Satanic Bible` [Re: blsk]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
...and that Mohammad also talked to angels and ascended to heaven on a flying horse, and that Musashi could slay a thousand men single-handedly and walk on water, and that pentacostal televanglists can instantaneously heal retards by shoving them in the head.

At least Mormonsim happened in the past 200 years.


Edited by The Zebu (09/29/08 09:42 PM)
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