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#119118 - 04/24/19 07:31 AM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Dan_Dread]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
This would not be a defend of Islam, this will be elaboration.

The old ones knew and understood that the one verse of Quran, has seven visible meanings to the mundane and seven other meanings only those who are chosen by the creator or the original engineer could understand, and the most honorable human that could fathom as much humanly as possible of both sevens was what we know as prophet Muhammad, everything else is just a mere of studiousness effort to decode the meanings, so you see--there is nothing in Islam called 'One Truth', except one, and debate that as much as your breath could hold or do you.

Now, what is Islam anyway? lets back solve that a bit, ... in it's essence; Islam is a protocol agreed upon by those who choose to accept it that regulates human behavior as a connection between two parties, one self and the society, ... for the self there is a set of rules one would which hold him self accountable for in form of obedience to a higher form of authority, and the for the society is an expansion of the 10 commandments...sort of.

Now wither you believe in the existence of God/Allah/What ever you call it as an original engineer, and the rest of it, no one can deny that Islam can be used as an Instrument of self mastery.

It lacks nothing, and for me it would be the greatest stand out of the crowd utilizing the deep blending in!

Think of it in terms of 'Hiding in plain sight' if you wish.

There is so so much out there to be learned if only you left behind the original archetypal mistake and opposing the authority of those in power, and never outshine the master at all!
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#119119 - 04/24/19 01:05 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Sabrina27]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3410
To each their own.

Some have seen wisdom in toast, others in falling apples and even others by staring into the mirror.

It can be a catalyst like any other thing.
It bears no interest to me.
You are on your own.

So fuck-off.
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#119120 - 04/24/19 04:57 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: MoSa]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4029
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
That is, frankly, horsehockey.


Ok so you can interpret every passage lots of ways. Pretty convenient right?

Self mastery? Yes, Islamic countries are usually first world paradises'. Right? People are lining up to live in them
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#119121 - 04/24/19 05:33 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Dan_Dread]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
That is, frankly, horsehockey.


Ok so you can interpret every passage lots of ways. Pretty convenient right?

Self mastery? Yes, Islamic countries are usually first world paradises'. Right? People are lining up to live in them



Hola Dan

I once read a 56 page something a literature of yours, what was that? A brain ejaculation or a reflections?

I recall seeing here some one mention Dr Carl Yong books, so search that and from that point define self, attributes and traits, or at least google his archetypes, and after that re-read what is supposed "from all schools of thought" to be the guidance in Islam through the lens of Quran, you can look at what's supposed to be an 'honest delivery of word' about how the Prophet of Islam used to live, just pare in mind that it's only his interpretation of the Quran.

You see, there is your first Que!--Individuality!

The Unity only comes in one mode, one mindset, all Ibrahimic religions is all about 'There is only but one God'.

That God, could be yourself, and even the Quran was a pure holographic memory condensed in a very very beautiful way that have been planted in our DNA from the original creator 'note now I am speaking about the unconscious'

O'I got tired of writing and explaining--I think you're a grown man and can look up all that by your self, I was merely paying forward some bits and pieces of knowledge I came across.
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#119122 - 04/24/19 05:36 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Dan_Dread]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
That is, frankly, horsehockey.


Ok so you can interpret every passage lots of ways. Pretty convenient right?

Self mastery? Yes, Islamic countries are usually first world paradises'. Right? People are lining up to live in them



Just a quick addition, now the Heaven and Hell concept is a great artifact for self mastery if you know how to use them wisely, don't blame me on those who used it to manipulate the mass's and enslave them.

I'd use the concept of reward and punishment as a physiological tool to get things done when ever there is a chance too, it's coded also in our DNA
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#119125 - 04/24/19 05:54 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: MoSa]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4029
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ok so you need a daddy figure to threaten you with a stick or bait you with a carrot to master yourself.

I'm not sure that's yourself you are mastering.

Anyway, perhaps you can answer the question the op backed off of? Because frankly this is boring, and I don't care.
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#119126 - 04/24/19 06:27 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Dan_Dread]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
....

Anyway, perhaps you can answer the question the op backed off of? .....


And the question in simple terms is? what's my interpretation of Life and afterlife and how memories are formed and how we have souls _or_ we're going to what!?!

I grew out to skip the big prestigious fancy eye blinding shiny words, for the sake of _cut_to_the_chase_ones, so here is how it goes.

We're born, we live according to a certain pre-determined programming that can be altered later (nature vs nurture concept) and we die, its as simple as that.
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#119128 - 04/24/19 08:14 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: MoSa]
fiendish Offline
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Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 654
I believe we live in search for a daddy figure, but usually nature wins over nurture. So we eternally search for a carrot, but Bugs Dread has it and refuses to give us a share. So we die without a carrot, what a pity. Even though there is no carrot. Only Bugs said there is one. So, the real question would not be how to get the carrot, but whether there is a carrot or not. What's sad about reality is that, there is no carrot, only rumors that there is one. One truth about reality is that it is a lie. Not about what it is, but about what it is said to be. It's all about the carrot. You believe there is a carrot. And you try to get it. So, if what I am saying is right and there is really no carrot, you will never get it. And you die in search of a carrot that doesn't exist. And the carrot survives! The one that doesn't exist. How can that be?
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#119131 - 04/24/19 08:55 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: fiendish]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 740
Who wants a carrot, when you can have a steak, or cheesecake, or even broccoli! Broccoli with fucking cheese! That would be fucking awesome!

Someone is keeping a secret from you and you love it!

Just joking. But seriously, isn't it dinner time? Just eat and forget about world's mysteries you'll never solve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TawS7eTAN8


Edited by samowens84 (04/24/19 09:26 PM)

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#119133 - 04/25/19 04:59 AM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: samowens84]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
Use what ever the f*word you want use to motivate and energize yourself, the answer to the eternal question we'll have 'The_Why' could be anything you want it to be, but know this "No one really cares what's on your mind, until you act on it"

Now, if we debate that and I know this got already debated so many many times already, that if I am suicidal by design 'because I 've in my mind an idea of a perfectly conditioned place where I can get laid with 72 virgin pussy waiting for me in there, and I can't get it wet over here' and did interact with people accordingly, then that's fucked up and those idea's should be changed to something else ---> correct?

What if I told you that in 'Quran', I mention it quite often because its what I am most familiar with, there is a verse, the scholars themselves consider it in the form of orders from divinity, that one must keep to him self and let others be themselves even if they see them wrong and the ones that kept to them selves will not be harmed?

"O ye who believe! Guard your own souls: If ye follow (right) guidance, no hurt can come to you from those who stray. the goal of you all is to Allah: it is He that will show you the truth of all that ye do." --105

https://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=5&translator=2

Now frankly, I ask that to many many Muslims I come across, why don't you follow that? and the answer is always a societal one!

So you see, it's not the words nor the book, it's the fucking idea and how you deal with it.

I recall someone here mentioned food, I'm outta here to eat.
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#119135 - 04/25/19 11:12 AM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: MoSa]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
Pretty much, just like most Esoterics. Imam Tawhidi tweeted today (paraphrased), that if one tries to convince you that suicide bombing gets you paradise that much faster. That person should go first.

I guess people have forgotten that Islam is decentralized. Even if Saudi makes the attempt to play Daddy.

Self in relation to world; doesn't really matter much what metric you quote. Take for instance all the trigger happy users on this forum. On any given day you can search their posting history to see quips and quotes shared not their own.

Tomato/Tomatoe

Great post MoSa \:\)
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#119137 - 04/25/19 11:55 AM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: SIN3]
samowens84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 740
Every institutional religion, in my private research, is still institutional. In some of my conversations with those critical thinking is discouraged and one has to ask for permission about certain types of doctrine. No matter how "decentralized" anyone claims it to be, it has some natural human agreeable shit on the outside and try to groom for assimilation like the Borg on the inside. "Official" doctrines and how religions actually behave are always two distinct things. They'd validate you and validate you to make you feel all cozy until you'd hit a brick wall and say "whoah" we didn't say you could think for yourself!

Richard Wright during the civil rights era found the same thing about communism. He was a determined individual and his colleagues were like "communism already figured shit out so just stop your thinking."

If one has a strong mind that likes to think for itself, any collective agenda would eventually treat your humanity and independence like an enemy. Which is fine, as long as you have your head about you.

I suspect you already know this SIN, so why are you playing patzie for Islam?

Did you check your brain at the door, or is being a cheerleader for propaganda your new vocation?

On a separate note most of my personal wisdom had been gained by getting close to an institution to gain that bit of personal necessary insight and wisdom and then raising two fingers at the point where they ask for my soul. That being said, some who have claimed to care what I think can try to glean every insight they want from me, but until they are willing to transgress that line, they won't ever get past a certain point, because much of what I know comes from wisdom in preserving my mind and heart as an individual, and is action based wisdom that isn't about fucking with others, but about enhancing the self, which is where the only real power strength and wisdom can be found. In my personal path fucking with others was only a path as far as others tried to inhibit my path, which have always been an institutional issue, not anything else.


Cowards have use, but their fear won't let them progress past a certain point. That point is the distinction that is the difference between soul actualization, and consciousness extinction. If one does not transgress institutional blocks their consciousness will eventually devolve into likely extinction.


Edited by samowens84 (04/25/19 12:23 PM)

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#119138 - 04/25/19 12:42 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: samowens84]
Sabrina27 Offline
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Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 160
@Mosa I don't understand the big deal with those 7 "readings", anyone can understand all 14 readings as long as you understand quranic arabic. I assume you're having trouble with those "readings" because Arabic isn't one of your primary languages?

What leads to different interpretations of the Quran is the layers of understanding of the Arabic language. I'll give you a rough example, and it's not a quranic verse, a piece of the hadiths: إن من أعلام السَّاعَة و أشراطها أن تواصل الأطباق وتتقاطع الأرحام
So this hadiths is talking about the signs of the hour(day of judgement)
Its literal translation: One of the signs of the hour is that when satellite dishes would be communicating and family ties would be cut. People are impressed because the prophet predicted the invention of satellite dishes. However the word satellite dishes- تواصل الأطباق(tawasul atbaq) has 2layers of meanings. Tawasul literally means communication. Atbaq(plural because of the a) means concave plates/dishes. However when these 2 words are stringed together it means communicating with strangers. So here's how the hadiths would sound like if I took the other definition: one of the signs of hour is when strangers would be communicating and family ties would be cut. Now that doesn't sound like satellite dishes, does it? But when we consider its literal meaning of tawasul(communicating) atbaq(dishes), it would be translated as satellite dishes. The reason the Quran was written in a specific language(Arabic) because of its depth of meanings. If you lived 14hundred years back and was told that one of the signs of hour would be when satellite dishes would be communicating, there would be no way you'll understand the prophet because time back then was very primitive. Thus if you understood the hadiths as "strangers would be communicating" it'll be easier to grasp. Hence this indicates Quran is timeless and is applicable to all ages of time

There's stuff like this all over the Quran. But I don't have the time to type all that. Ex how the Ayat ul kursi(a portion of a surah ) is positioned in the Quran or like how the shortest surah(al ikhlas) cannot be poetically challenged. In order to prove the Quran was indeed from God to primitive people, it had to be linguistically divine but we don't require that now.
The Quran doesn't only give you spiritual satisfaction, doesn't only talk about societal issues but it talks about your personal problems ex family issues, psychological issues, these verses are usually in 2nd person and not 3rd so when you read them it's as if God is directly talking to you. Anyway I don't believe the depth of the Arabic language leads to radicalisation, it has more to do with the political agendas and the history of the caliphs. One of my cousin was radicalised and he wasn't radicalised by the Quran, he was radicalised online, it's usually young impressionable people who has no knowledge of islam and does so in a stage of confusion in their lives
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#119139 - 04/25/19 12:49 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: Sabrina27]
Sabrina27 Offline
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Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 160
Watch this video for the reference to the hadiths: https://youtu.be/rCMgwwDkFxE
Go to 0:58
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#119140 - 04/25/19 12:57 PM Re: Islam through new lens [Re: samowens84]
MoSa Offline
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Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 219
psst, a quick whisper to your ear; google,youtube this fella "Shaykh Hassan Farhan al Maliki (ENGLISH)"

Now that's a fella who sucked it all up the food chain of his country/people and ended up pretty much like an old scholar called "Abu Dhar al-Ghifari"

Again, if you ever watched this you would now that there is a very big f*cking difference between institutions and individuality...every single child has read and been warned and do gets the warning of having a sexual intercourse with either his same gender or the other ones tell he gets married...yet that warning slips out of conscious and the thing gets done for so many reasons, the most obvious one of them is the absence of the enforcing environment (A Mosque/A religious teaching, _or_ questioning about prayers, or how much is memorized of Quran--any thing that might serve as a trigger for what is right and what is wrong), but those in ISIS, they're supposed to be mentally the most focused ones on the idea of war against all that they hate or rebel against, ... the idea of sexuality according to the Arabic lore should be focused on their enemies, rape their women or degrade them in anyway, ... it's been done so many times and actually in every Army wither it's Arabic or not it seems to be a standard, but my point is ... those who're mentally enforcing their minds to think of they're doing is by the book and they're meant to die martyrs getting laid with each other, means that all what they have read is something, and all what they're programmed to do is something else!

And the most amazing part is this, in Quran people are asked to think for them selves!, not to let others do it for them!

Say, [O Muhammad], "Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah, over all things, is competent."

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/translations/english/398.html?a=3360


Now, whom to blame?
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