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#119448 - 06/18/19 05:09 AM Re: Dharma [Re: Phoenician]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 253
Loc: High Peak, UK
 Originally Posted By: Phoenician
Without citing light absorption or reflection; explain why trees appear green to us.


There is no colour in nature there are only packets of information travelling at different wavelenghts.

The only reason we see trees as green is because "green" is what our brains process the information is has received to be.

The only place trees are green is in our heads.
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#119449 - 06/18/19 02:50 PM Re: Dharma [Re: when7iseleven]
Phoenician Offline
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Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 133
Loc: CA
Goddamnit.

Yes, and this process is fucks up in the colorblind, and makes them perceive the visible light spectrum different.

By your logic smells don't exist because they are chains of hydrocarbons that receptors in our nose turn into a sensory input.

Yes all the five senses are in the head.

But the fact remains, Chlorophyll is a green pigment (to the non color blind), that appears that specific color because of the parts of visible light the plants absorb for photosynthesis.

Here is a solipsism free response:

 Quote:
It is evident from these absorption and output plots that only the red and blue ends of the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum are used by plants in photosynthesis. The reflection and transmission of the middle of the spectrum gives the leaves their green visual color


I did have the absoption/reflection thing reversed for most of this thread, so I will acknowlege that.

So to restate for my own idiocy: The parts NOT absorbed by the pigment give it it's visual color.

The fact does remain that colors appear the way they do due to absorption and reflection.
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#119452 - 06/18/19 09:13 PM Re: Dharma [Re: Phoenician]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 278
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
Daltonism may be just what is needed for a brain to reinterpret what the eyes' cones and rods are exposed to. Compensating for this impairment opens a gaping hole of synesthesia where even pheromones will affect your vision. The five senses conspire to make a gestalt you can live with, if one believes there is nothing beyond 5 senses. But more obscure spots along the EM spectrum prove otherwise. Infrared photography is fun and reveals what your eyes don't want you to see.
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#119454 - 06/19/19 12:11 AM Re: Dharma [Re: aeon6]
WhiteSheep Offline
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Registered: 05/24/19
Posts: 44
 Originally Posted By: aeon6
Daltonism may be just what is needed for a brain to reinterpret what the eyes' cones and rods are exposed to. Compensating for this impairment opens a gaping hole of synesthesia where even pheromones will affect your vision. The five senses conspire to make a gestalt you can live with, if one believes there is nothing beyond 5 senses. But more obscure spots along the EM spectrum prove otherwise. Infrared photography is fun and reveals what your eyes don't want you to see.


http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/02/what-like-see-a-hundred-million-colors.html

purples the other side

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#119455 - 06/19/19 12:24 AM Re: Dharma [Re: WhiteSheep]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
It is called ultraviolet.
Despite a possible fourth receptor you are still limited to the visual spectrum.

Your eyes have a biological limitation to the spectrum they can perceive. This because of the cornea and underlying anterior chamber filtering and scattering "light" through natural barriers.

As we can't see that far into the infra- and ultra-spectrum, we "guess" its color (or fill it in) depending on a hunch.
Fade to red for infra- as that's what's been observed. The "purple" as a blank for an increase of "blue".
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#119458 - 06/19/19 08:49 AM Re: Dharma [Re: Phoenician]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 253
Loc: High Peak, UK
 Originally Posted By: Phoenician
By your logic smells don't exist because they are chains of hydrocarbons that receptors in our nose turn into a sensory input.


I think you're nearly there.

The mix of hydrocarbons stimulate receptors in our noses which create electical charges which our brain then processes as a smell; the "smell" only appears at this point.

Sound is exactly the same; changes in air pressure vibrate hairs in our ears which is converted in to electrial charges that our that our brains process as a sound; the sound onl.......well I'm sure you get the point.

As a point of interest, check out the mantis shrimp, the most complex eye in the animimal kingdom; I bet he sees colours you & I could not even dream of.


Edited by when7iseleven (06/19/19 08:51 AM)
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#119459 - 06/19/19 01:45 PM Re: Dharma [Re: Dimitri]
WhiteSheep Offline
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Registered: 05/24/19
Posts: 44
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
It is called ultraviolet.
Despite a possible fourth receptor you are still limited to the visual spectrum.

Your eyes have a biological limitation to the spectrum they can perceive. This because of the cornea and underlying anterior chamber filtering and scattering "light" through natural barriers.

As we can't see that far into the infra- and ultra-spectrum, we "guess" its color (or fill it in) depending on a hunch.
Fade to red for infra- as that's what's been observed. The "purple" as a blank for an increase of "blue".



not the spectrum but the face it belongs to 2 here can also see it haahaha


Edited by WhiteSheep (06/19/19 01:47 PM)

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#119465 - 06/20/19 12:11 AM Re: Dharma [Re: when7iseleven]
Phoenician Offline
member


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 133
Loc: CA
 Quote:

think you're nearly there.

The mix of hydrocarbons stimulate receptors in our noses which create electical charges which our brain then processes as a smell; the "smell" only appears at this point.

Sound is exactly the same; changes in air pressure vibrate hairs in our ears which is converted in to electrial charges that our that our brains process as a sound; the sound onl.......well I'm sure you get the point.

As a point of interest, check out the mantis shrimp, the most complex eye in the animimal kingdom; I bet he sees colours you & I could not even dream of.



Well in the neurological sense everything is up for interpretation.

Mantis Shrimp see from near-infrared to deep ultraviolet. It IS possible to imagine, unless you argue every animal sees the spectrum they do differently than others.

Then the argument becomes apologetic.

I would think that it just expands, like Dog -> Human -> Squid -> Mantis Shrimp.

A dog is red/green color blind, so blues and yellows only.

Humans range from greyscale to colorblind to full rainbow spectrum based on photoreceptors present.

Squid see a little into ultraviolet and a little into infrared.

Mantis shrimp are a combination of full color, near- infrared, and fluorescent blacklight vision (deep ultraviolet) complete with bioprotein luminescence.

And since we are talking down to each-other, people with special cameras can see part of a spectrum beyond the Mantis Shrimp called "Thermal IR". 

The same input gets turned into a visual picture to be interpreted by the organism. I would have to assume all organisms with our LUCA roots  would likely have like photoreceptors seeing more or less of the same picture.

Furthermore, there is really only one spectrum of electromagnetism in our universe, along with 3 other fundimental forces. One has got to assume it is ubiquitous throughout.

As would all life coming from amino acids.

Near-infrared is more monochromatic (bottom) and thermal infrared (top) is like heat sensitive Predator-vision.



For near infrared:

Why couldn't it just be this image..


[Image taken filtering out all but infrared light]

...overlaying a full color image.

Not the entire spectrum is visible, I have never seen images of radio waves, but still great advances in technology allow our eyes to see the part of the electromagnetic spectrum that is, X-Ray through Microwave radiation.

Image processing is awesome.

But congratulations for finding an apologetic argument.

How do you know these animals don't see these other parts of the spectrum different than we do. You are not a mantis shrimp.

And yeah, I have to assume a lot, myself.
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#119466 - 06/20/19 01:37 AM Re: Dharma [Re: Phoenician]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1556
Loc: Ca
Ok, Pretentious Other Me, this one was simple.

Fucking animals with camaflouge ability. If animals saw colors differently octopi wouldn't be able to match background color, patterns, and texture to hide themselves from mammal, fish, and other cephalopod alike.

The visible parts of the spectrum must look the same for all biological life, and only differ on range of what can be seen.
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