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#16901 - 12/25/08 12:50 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LaVey said that to believe that Satanism was a religion based soley on evil was "ridiculous."

There's no ambiguity in his feelings on preying on children. "9. Do not harm little children."

While I agree that anything goes between two or more consenting adults, We part ways when it comes to using children. Sorry if that offends anyone, but pray that I'm not on the jury, because it won't be pretty. And I do believe in Lex Talionis, which can indeed be used in proxy.
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#16909 - 12/25/08 03:05 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's not about standing back and allowing things to happen and it's also not about promoting or not promoting.
What I am asking are valid questions in a philosophy that accepts man as just another animal and promotes a predatory manner of living and thinking.

If you look around in nature, you'll see that man behaves not different than animals. Society is not constructed to make human cooperation easier, it is a desperate attempt to control the dark side of human nature. This is what we are and this is what we are capable of. Not one part of the predator mentality or behavior is unsatanic. You can't walk with the devil but dislike his methods. The whole controversy is about trivialities, it's conditional. If factors A B and C are right, the act is promoted, if any of A B or C are wrong, the act is condemned. In reality, the act just is. Right and wrong are trivial concepts.
In reality nothing is sacred, nothing is free from harm and nothing is guaranteed. That might suck but such is the nature of the beast.

I see people adore, admire or elevate kinds like Ted Bundy. I see them promote eugenics, the law of the jungle, social darwinism. I see them glorify the Path of the Predator. Well, it leads into darkness. It isn't glorious, it isn't nice and it isn't safe. It's reality as is. And once you start walking it, you can't wish it only to be as you prefer.

D.

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#16945 - 12/25/08 10:19 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
We are all predatory to a greater/lesser extent, and I totally agree with your view "In reality nothing is sacred, nothing is free from harm, and nothing is guaranteed"That's the element that gives my existence an added zest- the thought that I could be a rooster one minute, and a feather duster the next just makes me get off on life more!

Yes, I look around and draw parallels with man and beast constantly, and it just goes without saying that stuff like rape/child abuse will always be an element in society being part of the Dark side of human nature - your right, that sort of shit "just is" and there will always be that element of repulsiveness in society whether we like it or not, but being Human, and an individual with my own thoughts and views on stuff like that, I revile it and will never accept those traits in anyone.

The path of the predator is indeed a dark one, but encountering something along the way that you don't like, and studying the reactions that come up in yourself and evaluating them is only natural, and all a part of advancing as an individual- isn't blindly accepting something as "just is" placing limitations on ourselves as human Satanists? Yes, there are many similarities between man and beast, but out of the two, humans are capable of choice and rational,selective thought processes, and Beast isn't- not in the same process a human is anyway. It might be "just is" in the grand scheme of things, but it sure doesn't have to be in my environment.

Maybe I am "walking with the devil and disliking his method" and twisting a viewpoint to fit my own- I think a lot of Satanists would on the subject of preying on children and rape. I can hate paedophiles with all my heart, but would not think twice about literally butchering one in the most violent way possible, I fantasized about killing the toerag that fucked me over for years, Lex Talionis is a good creed to live by in my book. Double standard here maybe, but I'm a human animal, so it "just is".

"Do not Harm little Children"
It might have been written well over 40 years ago, but in my opinion it is a simple,straightforward statement that will never go out of style.
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#16955 - 12/26/08 04:19 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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When I look at Bonobos or Chimpanzees I see humans in action. They might not be as smart and not be as rational but everything a human is, is present in them. The agression, lust to murder and power struggles of Chimps, the sexual nature of the Bonobo. Homosexuality, random sexuality, masturbation, pedophilia, it's all present there. A human could get off rubbing himself against a dead cow. We're a super ape and combine the worst of them. Evolution advanced our brains, made us smart and rational but at no point got rid of that very dark side. It just made us meaner and leaner and nastier. It gave us incredibly more options to follow that dark and at times forbidden drive.

Again, I'm not promoting and to a degree it's a shame I need to include this disclaimer, especially here, but how society looks upon sex and what it defines as ok, tolerated and totally not done, is a product of culture. Things people get hung with the balls for nowadays was totally fine not too long ago or in other cultures. Of course, this isn't an excuse for relativism but the way some things are anticipated is influenced by the way society looks upon them. Most people just repeat societies instructions without knowing why or ever questioning them. In Iran people get hung in public for poking into forbidden holes. We call them barbarians for that. We lock people up for having an affair with a 12 year old. Iranians call us barbarians for that. It's all so trivial.

There are a lot of bad things happening out there and no matter what one does, they will keep on happening. But in how much does it affect ME? Not. If it isn't happening close enough, it just doesn't do anything to me. It's the way of the predator and I can't waste one second feeling regret, remorse, shock or shame for it. That is just how things are. Of course, I do know the expected reaction and I can pretend to tune in with society, shake my head, get puppy eyes and say, it's a shame, the horror, the horror. But in reality, I don't feel anything about it. It's not close enough and that's why it doesn't matter. It's the same thing as someone stepping on my toes or on another ones. And even if it was close, no matter how I'd react, I'd still accept it as the nature of the beast, so would be my reaction.

Do not harm little children doesn't do much for me because I realize it's one of those feel-good commands that have essentially no value. We do harm little children quite a lot, maybe not direct but all too often indirect. I could give a rat's ass about what is happening in Africa and if it was up to me, they'd put a fence around it until they solved their shit on themselves. Very true most would say but at the same time, this promotes the death, rape, mutilation and abuse of millions of innocent kids. The same for war everywhere. The same for promoting eugenics or 'kill the poor'.
I could care less. Seriously, life sucks if you're living life at the wrong spot or wrong moment. This is the way things function.

That's why it puzzles me that satanists have those strong emotional reactions to things they at the same time promote. We promote doing harm to little children, we just don't mention it in public and cover it up with bogus rules.

D.

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#16959 - 12/26/08 05:32 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Your post made so much sense to me until the last part.

I won't go on ad nauseum about the similarities between man and chimps except to say that I do agree that it is very relevant to why the human race is the way it is, and why paedophiles and Rapists etc will always be a part of the human race.

Unfortunately, you totally lost me on the "We promote harm to little children" part.
How do "we" do that? And how do we cover it up and clothe it in bogus rules?
I just sat back and wracked my brains trying to come up with one instance or occasion that I've ever knowingly promoted harming children in any way, and I can't.
I freely admit that I'm extremely predatory, and quite savage in my outlook concerning a plethora of people and situations, but harming children has never been a part of my hard-wiring.

Your comment about all the bad shit happening everywhere, and you not being affected by it because it isn't happening in close proximity to you I can fully relate to. I deliberately refrain from watching tv or reading the news so I can keep it all out of my environment, call it sticking my head in the sand,but I'm just happier that way. I know every conceivable wretched thing that can happen to everything and everyone is happening somewhere out there, but as long as it's not happening in my immediate environment, I can block it out.

The attitude to sex varies from culture to culture= what's acceptable to one may be abhorrent to another, but you could look at that as a product od herd mentality and social conditioning, which my personal attitude towards the whole subject surely stems from as well, but looking from a personal perspective all of my own, I just can't STAND kid-fuckers.
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REGIE SATANAS!

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#16962 - 12/26/08 05:56 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Diavolo Offline
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Posts: 4997
Maybe I didn't explain it good enough, it's understandable to me but I'm Eurotrash so let me try again.

To me there is no difference in harming little children directly or indirectly. The differences are trivial. Let me give an example.
If I promote the removal of all degenerated people out there, I do at the same time promote the removal of all degenerated kids out there. Of course, that last part doesn't make me look good because I am actually promoting the culling of those poor and cuddly creatures that trigger so much awe into people. But fact is, they are part of the degenerated. By covering them up in a generalized statement, I do not have to feel bad about it BUT it does not change the fact that I actually DO promote it.

I can't say bomb Iraq and then act as if they'll not bomb little kids at the same time. They do have smart bombs but they're not THAT smart. A lot of things we stand for, when broken down, do include little children and we do promote harming them too. We just don't break things down until it gets unpleasant for most. It's like doing a body count, adding the numbers of hostiles killed and acting as if the kids died of a flu. They aren't collateral damage, they are intentional damage. In the past, people realized much better that what you don't kill, can grow into something that can kill you. Rationally it's so obvious you better do it correct the first time. I know, we're civilized now but civilization is nothing but a new blanket on the same old beast.

It's the same with might is right. If you really promote that idea (let's not think of it as a title), ALL might is right. Not SOME might is right and SOME isn't. And some of this might contradicts what I call feel-good rules to make people think we're a pretty nice bunch. Every act has consequences and all change is at the same time the destruction of something else. If we act upon our will, we at the same time change and thus destroy things.

The real question would be; in how much do we let our will be affected by the consequences?

The path of the predator would imply that the end always justifies the means. Sometimes the means just aren't pleasant but that doesn't imply they aren't part of the path, or the nature of the predator.

D.

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#16963 - 12/26/08 06:16 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Thanks for explaining that D , it's a lot clearer to me now.

In your view, does my perspective on this subject automatically class me as null and void in the satanic sense? I really don't think it does , though I'd be interested to read what you think about it.
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#16964 - 12/26/08 06:32 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I don't class people as null and void because they disagree with me or not. I do use other criteria, so don't worry.

What I do here, and what seemed appropriate for Christmas -which is essentially all about rape and child abuse-, is address some issues that are seldom addressed and see how people react or what they have to say. They do NOT have to agree with me, as long as they make up their OWN mind about things, I consider it ok. After all, it is not because I am on a path that leads (or gets lost as some might think) into darker areas, that others need to do the same.

D.

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#16965 - 12/26/08 07:17 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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I seem to have missed this reply.

I do agree that human nature is hard wired to protect those we care about but I disagree that it is universal. It is indeed universal when it comes to someone protecting them HE cares about but not when it comes to ones he doesn't give a damn about.
If you'd look at certain areas in Africa, you'd see that they do have NO problem at all with raping, abusing and mutilating the other. Of course, other = us vs them. That's also an inherit part of human nature; our genes are more important than their genes. Due to the fact that we live closer together in society, we confuse the drive to protect OUR genes, which are essentially only our offspring, with our genes, in the sense of what we consider our people in society. We tend to call that being civilized.

But due to the fact that the predator is highly egocentric, he decreases the environment and population he considers ours and expands the "them" in the us vs them. His care is decreasing because his care is subject to whom he cares about, which is rather limited and, in extremes, only him.

In the predator's mind, this is why he can act as he acts without feeling remorse.

D.

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#16966 - 12/26/08 07:19 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Your answer was exactly the kind I was hoping for... intelligent and not boorishly dismissive - thanks, I appreciate it. You've been very patient with getting your point of view across , a lot of people wouldn't have been so obliging.

Christmas holds many negative connotations for me - you hit the nail on the head when you noted that it is essentially all about rape and child abuse. That's why I felt it was also necessary to discuss this element of human nature on xmas day.

As for that path that meanders off into darker areas- it's a necessary path, one that's been there since the beginning of existence as we know it.... if it gets too dark, we can always take a torch with us.
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#16969 - 12/26/08 12:22 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
One word. Empathy.

Humans have the ability to feel emotion by proxy. For example, if a man sees a girl being raped, he is far more likely to be effected if he has a daughter around that age.

You seem to have overlooked that part of my post. Mans protective nature AS WELL AS his ability to feel empathy, makes it only natural and human, predatory human or otherwise, to be naturally opposed to the harm of children (and in some instances women).

That child rape/harm/abuse happens is only evidence of a lot of sick fucks out there, not that these acts are natural. If they were natural human acts they wouldn't be A)rare and B)horrifying

If this behavior was natural people would be raping babies in the streets and nobody would care. We would also be extinct.
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#16970 - 12/26/08 12:59 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
One word. Empathy.

That child rape/harm/abuse happens is only evidence of a lot of sick fucks out there, not that these acts are natural. If they were natural human acts they wouldn't be A)rare and B)horrifying

If this behavior was natural people would be raping babies in the streets and nobody would care. We would also be extinct.


Simple and succinct. Abberations occur and they are only abberations, and not indicative of any sense of "normalcy" of the event or act that they entail. It could be normal for one person to drive nails through their penis... while we might accept it as normal for HIM, we could only see it as an abberation of the greater whole. Is it good or bad? It just is. Child molestation is an abberation and specific to a statistical abnormality of mankind. It has nothing to do with left-hand ideology or dark ways. It's simply abberant of the whole. Natural... proboably not.

You get the same logic from dopers who say, "Marijuana is NATURAL, so it's ok to smoke it." Ok. I agree. It's natural. So is dog shit. So is Ebola. Smoke 'em if you got 'em but don't expect people to think YOU'RE normal.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#16974 - 12/26/08 01:28 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So following that logic, being a satanist is an abberation too and not indicative of any sense of normalcy of their thinking? So why do we not get emotionally distressed by that?

Everything that happens out there is natural. If it wasn't natural, what would it be then? Supernatural? Do you really think Bonobos have long ethical debates about Uhuru having jumped his niece under the banana tree? No, that shit just happens but what just happened in their troop is highly immoral in ours. Because we are moral creatures? Maybe.

But aren't we the ones telling people they have to define their own morals? Aren't we the ones telling good and bad is just a way of defining things and not static. I think we are no? So why would we throw universal values on the table.

And Dan, empathy? All nice and well, but aren't we on the same track as being good? After all, who's level of empathy is the correct one? Will we draw a line too, to divide the good and bad, sinners and saints?

D.

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#16978 - 12/26/08 01:51 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Sorry, D, but it's the same argument as "I'm theistic, so I'm the same as..." no. There are indeed taboos that are broken all of the time in the "animal kingdom" as part of the survival imperative. For that segment of the world's phylum, it's natural and normal.

However, there are differences between the rest of the animal kingdom and the human animal. We know, for instance, that while we are physically capable of inbreeding, it's not a great idea because of the physical deteriorations of limited gene pools. A simple trip through parts of the rural south will show you what happens... whole communities "look very similar," and there is an overall "dimness" in affect. Specialized diseases like hemophelia , Sickle Cell Anemia and Tay-Sacs develop. This happens much less frequently in the animal kingdom... why? Because we are SIMILAR, not equal.

If you wish to think that child molestation is a normally occuring thing, great. Let your son or daughter loose with a note pinned to their chest that reads, "Do what thou wilt. It's normal." But you then give up your right to outrage when a sick bastard puts a knife to their throat and spends the next several hours doing his thing. He might let them survive. It's natural. It's natural. It's natural.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#16979 - 12/26/08 02:05 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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No Jake, what I am debating is that nothing man does isn't happening in nature and that if man is just another animal, that also is a part of that animal. We can't call that aspect of us inhuman because we don't like it too much. It would imply we start to construct some metaphysical human or a "human as he should be" and that is exactly what happens on the RHP; totally ignoring parts of human nature and dividing him into the good and evil person. Shaped as his creator. It's not how I see humans.

It doesn't imply we can't put values on these acts but as with everything, all values placed on something are personal. What happens with most is that they place religious or societal values on things. What we do, or what we should do, is take distance from those values and define our own. Destroy the taboo and make up our own minds.
My value, as I have stated before, is that I can't care at all when it isn't close enough and even when it is close, and I might react, I don't see it as inhuman in the world perspective I have.

D.

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