Page 3 of 7 <12345>Last »
Topic Options
#16981 - 12/26/08 02:55 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
This is one that you and I will never be able to see eye to eye on because unless it's happened to you, there's no real frame of reference. And I can't get that fabled "10,000 foot elevation" on the subect because I'm anchored at ground zero where it actually has long-lasting physical and emotional scars.

Unless you're willing to have a guy twice your size and physical strength with a knife ram his cock in your ass and go from there to what can REALLY give you nightmares, all the while pressing a knife into your neck, (hell, we'll even let go of the fact that you'd have to be a child and have no real idea why or what the hell is going on, much less "philosophical opinions")... well, like we always told our parents when they nodded and said, "you'll grow out of it," you just can't get it.

When you get down to it in this thread, it all becomes mental masturbation over what's natural, what's out there... that's all smoke and mirrors. Try rationalizing it with stitches in your ass. Or being the parent who can say nothing that's really comforting, only run their hand through your hair and tell you. "It'll be ok." Yep. Philosophy's a real comfort.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#16982 - 12/26/08 03:01 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
We'll probably won't come to a conclusion on this and maybe better end the argument indeed.
I personally don't think the experience/opinion is very valid because if that would be the case, there is a lot we can't talk about.

So be it.

D.

Top
#16983 - 12/26/08 03:28 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... in every thing humans talk about, experience colors opinion. That's just natural... like smoking shit and snorting Ebola?

But no hard feelings, D. I appreciate your passion, and hope you don't go out and get the experience to see what I'm talking about. (Strange visions in my head about some little freak reading these post, and yelling, "I WILL, I WILL!!!"
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#16984 - 12/26/08 03:36 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It isn't passion Jake, you can accuse me of much but I'm so much about control, passion almost seems offensive to me. ;\)

Experience probably always colors opinion and some debates probably can go only that far. I think most was said anyways, so no harm in ending it until some genius jumps in and astonishes us all.

D.

Top
#17006 - 12/27/08 12:57 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
However, I truly do understand what Diavolo is posting...

And, trying to be as unemotional as possible, I kinda agree. Not that I don't agree with "Ms. Spider" and Jake999, there has been no "real" argument here, as I see it.

But... on the lighter and lightest note I can think of... "Might WAS Right" in this case, and that sorry ass Rapist/Pedophile done and got hisself strangled to death by a sixty-odd year old man...

If only things could always work so well.

My skeletons will hide another day, sorry (too much sharing these days)... otherwise... thank you all very much, this has given me much to absorb.

Please continue...
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

Top
#17012 - 12/27/08 05:26 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: daevid777]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You are very correct in this; might WAS right in this case. But as I was pointing out, might IS right in all cases. And that seems to be the controversy.

The predator rapes the victim = might is right.
The predator kills the rapist = might is right.

Everyone can be a predator or prey. I can bash someone's skull and feel good about it because I subscribe to might IS right. If the brother of my prey tracks me down and bashes my skull, I sure won't feel good about THAT but I will still subscribe to might IS right. Predator and prey can be interchangable, the principle isn't.

D.

Top
#17041 - 12/27/08 10:50 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Indeed. I gotcha the first time...

And in that light, perhaps I should've posted:

If only things always worked out so well... for the ones that really matter... ourselves.

But you certainly can appreciate the knowledge that each one of us, once in a while, deserves a good ass-kicking.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

Top
#17060 - 12/28/08 09:02 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: daevid777]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
There is no moral boundary. A human chooses his actions and society chooses whether they are "right" or "wrong". To a degree, D, your and the rest of the argument is pointless because if there were always a naturally occurring moral conflict, the predator would NEVER choose to rape/molest/destroy an innocent.

However, survival of the fittest includes ensuring the physical/emotional safety of the offspring. This does occur in nature, even if the beginning and end of that protection is to lay an egg 80 feet off the ground instead of right on the dirt. In humans, murdering healthy children obviously goes against this but since we are intellectually advanced and "think" more when compared to other animals, we also have to consider the children's mental health because - as Jake's posts have proven - when traumatic things happen to a child whether they be physical, psychological, emotional, or any combination thereof, it can affect the perpetuation of the species as a whole. Jake's experience caused him to go against what truly is natural and prevent himself reproducing. If people such as his attacker were allowed to roam free and do as they pleased, the odds that more people would react as Jake did would increase, thus causing real damage to the human race.

So the idea that child-harmers and such should be punished doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what is and is not moral. All predators make their decisions and the retalitory actions of society - though morally based - essentially are in place to ensure that children reach adulthood with their physical and mental health intact so that they can continue the cycle of reproducing and prevent the extinction of our species.

Top
#17062 - 12/28/08 12:51 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: ceruleansteel]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course the argument could have been as simple as: compassion is wasted if it isn't concerning you, because that's what it actually is all about. But emotionally this seems to be not as simple.

I know nature included a "protection of the offspring" routine in our and other instincts but the very fact that this protection routine is there is evidence of the predators offspring have to deal with. If there weren't predators, protection was not needed. Now we can argue whether predators were exclusively an outer-species phenomena or if they had to protect against their own species too. I think it served both purposes. Infanticide is a natural phenomena in many species, including humans. It's not the behavior of the majority, which would lead inevitably to extinction but it is behavior that is natural to us. Spartan law and newborns as an example are cultural evidence of infanticide.

I agree that punishment of child-abusers is a naturally occurring phenomena -to a degree- but it is only because society triggers some different manner of thinking and the concerns of the few suddenly are forced to become the concerns of the many. In reality, your genes are not my genes. We stopped thinking in replicating our genes long ago and now consider us part of a race, culture, nation or even at its broadest, humankind. The satanic thinking should not go that far, to us there are only subspecies and the majority of them we don't care about. This is what I address; why bother about them we don't care about? Why do we feel compassion at all for unknown.

If I'm executing my will, by whatever act, I'm not thinking about the perpetuation of the species as a whole. No my concern is how I can accomplish my goal at the best cost/pay-off rate. And this happens at any level. Else I should wonder if a guy I kicked out at work will not result in his kids not being able to go to a good school and never becoming the Einsteins they might have destined to be, robbing us of a cure against cancer, interstellar travel and darn delicious new brownies. Things don't work like that, people are egocentric when it comes to their will, especially stained souls like us. To hell with society, we want our thing now and pretty fast please.

I can't imagine any sexual deviant to wonder about the species, no, their concern is to execute their will under the best conditions. Keep the risk low, the pay-off high. Predators compassion isn't all-embracing.

So why should ours be?

D.

Top
#17064 - 12/28/08 01:17 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I was thinking about this predator/prey might is right dichotomy last night. It occurred to me that is comes down to a matter of scale.

Everyone has to plant their moral flag somewhere, and it usually begins and ends with ones own self interest. What I mean by this is if might is truly right all the time in all instances, you would be wheeling cartloads of groceries out of the store without paying, and smashing that little old lady that tries to take your parking spot with a hammer.

I would imagine because you are not dead or in jail, Diavolo, that you do not conduct yourself that way. Why not?

What it comes down to is being a part of the society in which we live is a matter of self interest by proxy. Might is right is always true 'in theory', but the real world is not always so black and white.

The balance factor is always a matter of consideration.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#17070 - 12/28/08 02:15 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Might is always right but not always the desired approach.
The end always justifies the means but the means which you will apply will depend on a cost/pay-off scale. This cost is not only the energy you invest but also the payback for eventual acts.

If I go to the grocery and want some food, I have a number of options but only if I'd be an idiot or without any other option, I'd be so stupid to grab and run. Grab and run might work but if it doesn't, would 10$ worth of stuff be worth getting either shot or arrested? No it wouldn't. So, the best approach is to put down 10$ and buy the stuff. It's all situational and conditional.

If I'm horny and desire an orgasm, I have different approaches.
I can:

A) have a wank
B) dress up, go out, smooth talk, and try to get a chick laid
C) visit a hooker and flip out some cash
D) rape someone

All approaches are ok to get my orgasm but ultimately I will have to decide which one is the best for my need. My moral flag will be defined by the very cost/pay-off level. Not by the morality of the act itself because that's not necessarily my moral position.

D.

Top
#17073 - 12/28/08 02:22 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, exactly. Thanks for fleshing out my point. It seems we agree on this one.

The cost/payoff level is really what keeps society from degenerating into 'mad max'
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#17081 - 12/28/08 02:56 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course, the cost level is what keeps us from ending in chaos. That's why not only the law has punishment but also religion. Punishment is a very simple, cost-effective strategy to control humans. It is much easier than reward-based strategies.

It's also why anarchy doesn't work. ;\)

D.

Top
#17082 - 12/28/08 03:05 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

It's also why anarchy doesn't work. ;\)


Actually, I would see it as evidence of the reverse. The natural state of things entails consequences for actions, and most state activity only serves to lessen that. What the state gives us is a mockery of justice in which the victims are the ones on trial, and the guilty are ridiculously protected.

But, I do think we have danced to this song before.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#17115 - 12/29/08 02:39 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Dan_Dread]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
And, to go back a few squares...

There is "might", and then there is "Might" - and I mean the "Might" of a bunch of people that will mightily come down on your ass for knocking down that old lady. If only out of their own "moral principles"...

Now, if you had 50 like minded individuals with automatic rifles, and say, two tanks... go ahead, take whatever you'd like from the store.

This kinda shit happens all the time - we just call it "progress" or "war"...

I don't even want to get into the Israeli-Palestine thing here... oops.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

Top
Page 3 of 7 <12345>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.021 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.