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#17137 - 12/29/08 09:19 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: daevid777]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
My perspective where abuse, rape etc will never change, but I have to say I've found all the differing views here food for thought.

Reading all of this has given me a different way of looking at situations that I find totally abhorrent- I still percieve them as utterly revolting traits in the human race, but gaining a deeper perspective of the machinations of such behaviours has been beneficial to me on a personal level, and I'm thankful for that.

I'm sure that the last thing all of you who have contributed to this thread is to have me pissing in your pocket, but what you all had to say, (especially Jake and Diavolo) held far more credence and clarity than most of the "kiddy head shrinks"out there.

If I had more understanding about the predator/prey aspect when I was a kid, It might not have changed anything outwardly, but inwardly? Maybe...

And Daevid777? Go on, Launch yourself wholeheartedly into the Israeli-palestine thing, I know you want to!! \:D


Edited by spiderbreeder (12/29/08 09:36 AM)
Edit Reason: grammar.
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#17154 - 12/29/08 05:09 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Thanks for a great read guys.

I really enjoyed this debate and think I too have learned much from it.

My biggest challange with Satanism is getting over my own moral values. Always has been. I am instinctively on the side of the underdog. I realise this is not a Satanic thing but a personal one. Might is Right, although something I recognise as true and valid and right, at the same time, my instincts and personal experiences have always been to protect and help those that are getting the worst end of it. Even strangers. This can even propel me to become involved, even to my detriment, it's one of the reasons I beleive that altruism DOES exist, but that is another thread and is still available to argue.

Some of the coolest, toughest mofos around are like that for the same reasons as Jake. Obviously it's not all that uncommon.

 Quote:
We do harm little children quite a lot, maybe not direct but all too often indirect.


Ain't that the truth. Hell, we've all got hung ups we blame on childhood. Still most parents wouldn't see the harm they do to their kids mentally because they expect them to feel that natural urges are 'Sins', but in reality IS IT ANY DIFFERENT TO THE DAMAGE DONE BY MOLESTERS? Case in point that priest I put the story up about, that blamed his porn addiction for pretending to have cancer. If he hadn't been brought up to beleive that looking at porn was a sin, he probably wouldn't have gotten an addiction to it, felt guilty about it and made himself sick to the core. So much damage is done to children in those types of ways, yet society doesn't get all butt hurt about it.

I'm in no way advocating molestation of a child, but a Satanist must at least acknowledge their own hypocrisies in this particular instance. It is the same with fucking animals etc. We advocate it subliminallly, but most of us wouldn't actually do it, (except our mate Cody, wonder where he wondered off to?) or admit to it, or publicise it.

Zeph
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It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#17182 - 12/30/08 03:21 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: ZephyrGirl]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Right on...

And... I think it would be a good idea for us all to re-read Ceruleansteel's post... just thinking to myself out loud....

Perhaps this is one of the reasons it is ingrained in men to have sons, I personally never thought of this... until this colleague of mine was expressing how he had three daughters, and "didn't stop" until he had his son. Perpetuation of the "name" - a much more personal developement of "perpetuation of the species"...

I never much cared whether I had a boy or a girl, until I had them both... at the same time. Now, if we get this ugly thing called "love" out of the equation, I'll fight like hell and bite someones nose off if it would protect them... is that "my gift" to humanity? Or is this a personal "property" argument? I mean, I might do the same if someone was attacking my dog, or trying to kill my cat(s) - perhaps with less vigor... maybe not. And, can I really separate what I call "love" from this?

A total digression, perhaps, and I don't necessarily want to lead the conversation away... (like I have that power!).

(Hell no, SpiderBreeeder, that's opening a new can that doesn't belong here... it's probably somewhere else anyway!)
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#17205 - 12/30/08 04:48 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: daevid777]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Some call it love, other call it hormones.

 Quote:
There's also preliminary but tantalizing evidence that fatherhood can change the brain. A 2006 study found enhancements in the prefrontal cortex of the father marmoset. After childbirth, the neurons in this region showed greater connectivity, suggesting that having young children could boost the part of the brain responsible for planning and memory, skills parents need when having kids gives them more to keep track of. The neurons also had more receptors for vasopressin, a hormone that has been shown to prompt animal fathers to bond with offspring. (Receiving an injection of vasopressin, for instance, prompts a male prairie vole to cuddle and groom a youngster.)


You don't even wanna know the rest what happens to your body when a partner is being pregnant or having a kid. Testosterone levels drop, cortisol and prolactin shoots up. That's all happening in the father. Hell, one should be glad one doesn't start to lactate.

D.

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#17207 - 12/30/08 04:52 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! Of course fatherhood can change the brain! I can't begin to tell you how many times my father told me that kids had driven him crazy.
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#17244 - 12/30/08 11:08 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
It definitely changed my mother's brain activity.
She's been on a slow, mental decline since the day she had me I think!
Lactating males, now THAT'S an interesting idea... didn't the male used to lactate many thousands of years ago?
A hot topic for the google bar when I sign off from here methinks.
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#17249 - 12/30/08 11:54 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: spiderbreeder
Lactating males, now THAT'S an interesting idea... didn't the male used to lactate many thousands of years ago?


I remember OG did, but then we realized he had a vagina, so we renamed him Sally.
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#17260 - 12/31/08 12:42 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Jake999]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Lol! I was asking for that one...

I'm starting to think "Hermaphrodites"
Now that has the potential to be a pretty eye-opening thread don't you think?
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#17296 - 12/31/08 06:03 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: spiderbreeder]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
Some call it love, other call it hormones.


I don't think so, but let someone try and test my hormones... see if they don't "feel the love".
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#17593 - 01/04/09 08:56 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: daevid777]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Embracing the Predator are we?

Well, not my cup of tea.
And I have never been to big on that "Might is Right" biz either.

Parts of the argument in this thread strikes me as over-simplified with pseudo-badazz references to chimps, baboons and what not.

If the animal kingdom is our reference (?!) you can find thousands and thousands of examples on what ever you want to prove to be true "nature".
Utter bullshit, much like the Xian bible in its oh so practical practicality.

For me; Satanism is not about Bestiality or Predation.
It is about pride and dignity.
It is about bettering myself, not wallowing in the dark.
I see it as the brightest of lights...

When I see "weakness", (which btw. is in the eye of the beholder), I see potential.
Three-hugging S.O.B as I might (is right) be, I simply cannot find it in my self to succumb to the negativity and collective deathwish which seems to torment our philosophy.

I wholeheartedly believe in the existence of a, (naturally somewhat vague), collective ethos amongst humans.
Over-rationalist arguments aside;
how we choose to look at the world, will shape the reality of your world.
(Nietsche for dummies?)

Well; here is a man that think industrialized warfare sucks bigtime.
Who thinks Africa has been buggered into starvation for centuries?
Who is not charmed by sexual predators at all, and would like to see them fry for their actions.
Who feels truly sorry for the victims of warfare, and consider it a terrible waste.
And; who doesn't seem to be ashamed about it at all...

But then; I am probably a re-incarnation of:



Or maybe just:


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Woland

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#17612 - 01/05/09 12:25 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Woland]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
you are my favorite hippy Woland.
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#17617 - 01/05/09 02:24 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Bacchae]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
you are my favorite hippy Woland.


All you need is love, Bacchae!
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Woland

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#17634 - 01/05/09 10:31 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Woland]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So if the animal kingdom is no reference, what actually is? Literature or poetry or "Suleiman's great distinction between good and bad"? Should we take a humans word for our nature or maybe look at it biologically and see why we behave like we do and what our roots are? Humans are apes, if we like it or not.

Some might call that over-simplified or bad-ass but then I ask, what do you have to offer at the other side? What possible argument is there to counter it that doesn't tap into the same pool of evidence. And in doing that, admit it is all part of nature and that calling it right or wrong, good or bad is the same as call a tree evil because he grows higher than the bushes.

I see no human ethos, humans are biological machines, just like all other forms of life and in reality, there might be nothing but instructions.

D.

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#17635 - 01/05/09 11:17 AM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Diavolo]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
The animal kingdom can be used as a reference.
You can in fact reference your heart out of everything.
I can show you reptiles who goes to the trouble of protecting and taking care of its own offspring, as well as others offspring.

I can show you primates who will systematically kill & eat their own offspring.

My point, (which may or may not have gotten through) is that nature is incredibly multifaceted, and that one is able to reference/prove the existence of close to any behavior if one was inclined to use nature as a "bible".

Natural does not enter the equation, less to say that everything is natural...

Embracing the beast does not equal succumbing to bestiality.
There is the matter of choice...

If we are to break everything down to behavioral science, social-anthropology, rationalism and hyperbiology, we will ultimately succeed in eradicating philosophy, literature, poetry and for that matters the collected works of Mr. Suleiman...

We are apes, but evolved...
We do art, we do music, we do spirituality.
By means of our consciousness, we filter our everyday experience into the collective for enrichment.


Human ethos:

We avoid eating our own species for nourishment.
We avoid inbreeding.
We avoid sexual relationships with children.
We appreciate and elevate artists.
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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#17646 - 01/05/09 04:19 PM Re: Father Of the Year! [Re: Woland]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But that was exactly the point: everything is natural.
Protecting babies or ripping them apart; none of them is unnatural even when in a society we tend to be forced to embrace the unnatural aspect of killing them.

I don't think we do have as much choice as people assume we have. If you have the choice between oranges and apples but don't like apples, how much choice do you really have?
It's the same for sexual deviants; if you brain is wired in such a manner that you prefer young girls and your pleasure center finds much fun in raping them, well, you're pretty much fucked then. You don't have a choice to begin with. Sure, you might act or not act upon it but you're still a sexual deviant, and for us who think that following ones own will is one of the highest goods, things get suddenly a bit difficult. So, what is one to do? Play a role and submit to societal demands or be what one is and pay the price if needed?

Yes we do art and we do music and we do spirituality but at the same time we kill for an i-pod, rape for pleasure and mass murder for ideas. So what is human ethos else but behaving under a rule of thumb?

D.

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