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#12113 - 10/01/08 08:36 PM Octavius speaks #3
Octavius Offline
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#12128 - 10/02/08 04:56 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
DistroyA Offline
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I somewhat agree with the notion of creating an offshoot of Satanism that is a bit more spiritual in a sense. There are a few things I want to address though;

1) On the documentary Speak of the Devil, LaVey states that he isn't trying to convert people to Satanism and states straight afterwards that you're either a Satanist or you are not; you're born that way (As is said by an unknown source that you're either born gay, or you are born straight...). Trying to recruit more people to a philosophy that may be too extreme for them would be unwise in my opinion. Even if we create an offshoot that is more mystical and magical than LaVey's philosophy, they might not be able to handle the harshness that is the philosophy behind the religion.

2) In some respects, LaVey's philosophies hold a fair bit of mysticism, but add a bit of science behind it, so it can be somewhat spiritual and magical. If it isn't as mystical as I perceive it to be, there's not much point in LaVey writing down the last half of The Satanic Bible. And besides, the beauty of Satanism is that the individual can shape it to their own benefits without straying away from the philosophy.

In other words, we don't really need to create a new organisation just to bring in the punters (Excuse the expression if you please, for I couldn't think of a better analogy at the time...). If they want to turn to/practice Satanism, that is their choice alone really, but giving them something to think about is a wise idea either way.

\:\)
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#12135 - 10/02/08 02:34 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: DistroyA]
Octavius Offline
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LaVey's CoS certainly had a fair amount of mysticism and mystique. But compared to the CoS of today? What happened?
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#12138 - 10/02/08 03:30 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
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 Originally Posted By: Octavius
LaVey's CoS certainly had a fair amount of mysticism and mystique. But compared to the CoS of today? What happened?
That's a good question to ask. Sadly, I can't supply an answer. That's when Karla LaVey decided to found The First Satanic Church if I'm not mistaken, as she realised that the Church of Satan has gone down the pan.

If anything, Satanists don't need a church/grotto/whichever really. Although having one that is a bit more open to like minded individuals would be a nice thing.
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#12147 - 10/02/08 05:49 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: DistroyA]
Octavius Offline
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Certainly Satanists don't need a church, but you may have missed the point of my entire piece. What could a smart group of Satanists do with a well constructed organization that publicly embraces the role of the anti-Christ and panders to the Abrahamic fundamentalists? The clandestine possibilities are mind boggling.

Now let me be very clear: I'm not suggesting that I'm remotely interested in constructing such a group. I'm not the Anti-Christ nor do I wish to be. But considering the political and religious climate today, it would seem that such a group's time has certainly come. The idea and implications are certainly interesting and worth chatting about.

Octavius
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#12148 - 10/02/08 06:01 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
Certainly Satanists don't need a church, but you may have missed the point of my entire piece. What could a smart group of Satanists do with a well constructed organization that publicly embraces the role of the anti-Christ and panders to the Abrahamic fundamentalists? The clandestine possibilities are mind boggling.

Now let me be very clear: I'm not suggesting that I'm remotely interested in constructing such a group. I'm not the Anti-Christ nor do I wish to be. But considering the political and religious climate today, it would seem that such a group's time has certainly come. The idea and implications are certainly interesting and worth chatting about.

Octavius
That's fair enough. If what you say is true and that such a group's time is at hand, it's possible that such a group already exists and is gathering together resources to rise up above the other religious hypocrisy. Only time will tell, I guess...
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#12152 - 10/02/08 08:48 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
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Hmm, where to begin here?....



"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke



As you point out, one of the problems with Modern Satanism as currently practiced by the CoS is that it is little more than aesthetic psycho-babble spoofing Christianity.

Since man's beginning we have always suspected that there was 'more' than meets the eye. Our own sentient nature tells us that we are more than simple biological mechanisms. We have a consciousness that confounds science.

The current state of physics research is leading us into a realm of quantum computing. In short, by exploiting the peculiarities of quantum physics, the quantum computer can process multiple probabilities at the same time in what could be called extra dimensional quantum space.

Currently, there is a line of thinking in neuroscience that the human brain uses quantum computing processes. I would argue that this may be the only way to explain sentience and consciousness. Intuition, insight, and that ability to 'feel' the 'presence' of others all defy conventional causal science. These phenomenon may be linked to the fact that much of our thought processes occur 'outside' of our causal world.

One of the methodologies employed by the ONA was influence one's world using the acausal. Even LaVey realized that there were subtle forces working behind the scenes things that could not be easily explained. In one of his interviews in the late '80 or early 90's he pointed out that some ideas are just 'in the air.' This is not a new idea.

Currently, the 'old ways' have failed. The last few hundred years of thinking about family, community, politics and religion, are proving to be worthless. For the last few decades people have been abandoning the old ways for the ancient ways. Tribalism is increasingly replacing the old ideas family and community. While great work has gone into stopping wars between nations, the common man lives in an increasingly violent and unpredictable world. In the West, traditional religion is all but dead, while ancient Islam has never been more popular.

Man instinctively has a spiritual nature. It is his way to make sense out of chaos and connect the unconnected. He wants to live in peace but possesses a violent nature. I cannot say what the next great religion will be. But, our new future will demand that man is more self-reliant than ever. Governments, corporations, churches and grand organizations of every kind will fail like never before in human history. The Age of Aquarius over. And now we slip into a New Aeon.
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#12168 - 10/03/08 01:49 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
paradise lost Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
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i greatly enjoyed your video.

Would it be possible for you to create a video that is capable of unlocking the abyss within the mind.

or bringing forth the archetypes or dark gods.

idk just a thought.

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#12179 - 10/03/08 10:35 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: paradise lost]
Octavius Offline
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 Originally Posted By: paradise lost
i greatly enjoyed your video.

Would it be possible for you to create a video that is capable of unlocking the abyss within the mind.

or bringing forth the archetypes or dark gods.

idk just a thought.


Sorry, I don't take requests. If you can't unlock your own mind or conjure your own Gods, then no one else can do it for you.
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#12186 - 10/03/08 06:08 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
coelentrate Offline
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Registered: 07/07/08
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Goddamn! that was wonderful!

There was so much content in there my head is spinning a bit. I'll have to get back with specific comments/qestions later.

Maybe for now I can say: your videos might be better to us if they were more focused on something, or tell us what that unifying element is to you.

It was too broad, too much at once.

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#12187 - 10/03/08 06:16 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: coelentrate]
coelentrate Offline
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Okay, here's a comment on specific content. I think you criticized the Church of Satan for not being dramatic enough, for not using enough imagery, for not capturing the imagination. Ritual, magic, and aesceticism are needed to bring us satisfation that the Church of Satan doesn't bring.

But I distinctly remember Anton LaVey saying the exact same thing. He said that this is the reason why satanists should be satanists and not merely humanists; that this is the difference between the two.

Did I interpret your talk correctly? What do you think about this?

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#12189 - 10/03/08 06:52 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: coelentrate]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Watched and enjoyed. Much to ponder though, will like coelentrate comment further later.

Zeph
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#12191 - 10/03/08 07:25 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: coelentrate]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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 Originally Posted By: coelentrate
Okay, here's a comment on specific content. I think you criticized the Church of Satan for not being dramatic enough, for not using enough imagery, for not capturing the imagination. Ritual, magic, and aesceticism are needed to bring us satisfation that the Church of Satan doesn't bring.

But I distinctly remember Anton LaVey saying the exact same thing. He said that this is the reason why satanists should be satanists and not merely humanists; that this is the difference between the two.

Did I interpret your talk correctly? What do you think about this?


The CoS of the 1960's certainly had the lion's share of drama, mysticism, and hocus-pocus. But today? Nada. It's become stagnant. Why the difference? Because we lost Uncle Anton. Uncle Gilmore just ain't as much fun.
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#12615 - 10/13/08 08:12 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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Wow. It sounds like you are quite creative.

Satanism for everyone? A replacement for Christianity?
Spiritual Satanism?

What would you be left with?

I think if such a entity were to somehow co-opt the satanic name, something else would arise to fill the (vacant) roll that Satanism now fills, and would look very much as Satanism now looks.

Basically at this point you are just changing up labels.
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#12616 - 10/13/08 08:16 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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For the record, if you are interested in deep and mysterious CoS stuff, try 'Essays in Satanism' by Magister James Sass or 'The fire from within' by Magister Nemo.

A belief in the supernormal is more prevalent in the CoS than you might think.
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