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#12665 - 10/14/08 07:58 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 561
Loc: just visiting
And you are quite the apologist for the CoS, aren't you?

My videos are theoretical. You can take them or leave them like everyone else. However, if you're going to comment or challenge me, it would be nice to see you stretch your high-powered intellect and add some substance to your replies instead of empty posturing. Do you have any ideas of your own or are you just a spokesperson for CoS publications? Show some effort, Herr Dread.

Sieg Heil,
Octavius
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#12669 - 10/14/08 08:15 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

And you are quite the apologist for the CoS, aren't you?

Nope, I'm not even a member. I do see them as the only Satanic organization out there though.
 Quote:

My videos are theoretical. You can take them or leave them like everyone else. However, if you're going to comment or challenge me, it would be nice to see you stretch your high-powered intellect and add some substance to your replies instead of empty posturing. Do you have any ideas of your own or are you just a spokesperson for CoS publications? Show some effort, Herr Dread.

Wait, so now I'm a nazi too? Where do you pull this crap out of...
How was anything I said 'empty posturing' wtf is wrong with you?
Obviously my whole point escaped you, so let me try to spell it out more clearly for you.

Satanism, as it is today, appeals to those that go AGAINST the current..hence the whole thing about the adversary. What you are proposing is to reverse that and make Satanism the status quo.

Do you really think were that to happen the adversarial undercurrent would just evaporate?

OF COURSE IT WOULDN'T!

Do you really think Satanism, as it is, would apeal to the masses? No you don't, because you went into great depth about how you could change it to jive more with the plebes.

So the same things that atract the herd to graze on your new and 'improved' Satanism would drive those that now identify as Satanists to create something else in it's place!

Do you get it now?

And I thought of this all on my own, without ANYONE IN THE CoS holding my hand! Just like every other damn post I've ever made!

You need to stop being so combative and defensive and stop making so many silly assumptions.
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#12670 - 10/14/08 08:22 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
But, all things considered..Satanism becoming a mainstream religion is so far fetched I feel a bit silly arguing about it.

Let's next argue about which is faster, a unicorn or he-mans pet tiger, battlecat. Which side would you like to take?

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#12706 - 10/15/08 03:58 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
The CoS has definitely lost its "edge" as a frontier of Satanism. Nobody wants to join a shut-in organization that does next to nothing (and keeps its doors closed to its own members). Even if he was never really in the circus, LaVey was still a great showman and keep the Church as a dynamic entity with that touch of mystery. I like reading some of Gilmore's writings, but he's a bit closed-minded, and just doesn't have the chutzpa for the job.

I think you pretty much nailed the appeal of Theistic or "Spiritual" Satanism, which is why it seems to me like theistic satanists have a much more "devoted" base than atheistic satanists.

We're satanists too- but yeah- we're lazy by comparison. We don't feel the need to make congregations, write billions of pages of religious Satanic text (even if most of it is garbage), or things like that. The spiritual satanic groups just seem a lot more active and a faster growing presence.

Whether you think it is all bullshit doesn't matter; I still find it astonishing how much they can do based on faith alone. (you could say the same for Christians though)

But what I do propose is that we should be more tolerant of theists. It's easy for an elitist to say "OGM UR A DEVIL WORSHIPER GO KILL CATS AND LISTEN TO SLAYER REVERSECHRISTIANLOL", but many theistic satanists I have corresponded with are rational, level-headed individuals, and have a lot to contribute. Also, it would be a mistake to ignore such a demographic that is so dedicated to the cause of Satanism.

Of course, there will always be the issue of weeding out the psychopaths and losers doing it for shock value, but every religion deals with that at some level or another.

And as for Dan_Dread's post, I say none of them- a Liger is faster than all three.
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#12715 - 10/15/08 05:38 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: The Zebu]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I never felt the need to belong to a church and I see many of similar opinion here.

I would be pleased to exchange with open-minded rational theistic satanists. After all we exchanged with Lux, what's the problem?

I'm curious to know their point of view on "being in a church".

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#12716 - 10/15/08 05:46 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Fabiano]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

The spiritual satanic groups just seem a lot more active and a faster growing presence.

Well, duh!

'Spiritual' religion is what joe average needs. The world is saturated with it. Spiritual 'Satanism' (It really makes my skin crawl to type those two words together) is just another flavour of the same damn thing, so of course it would have a much wider appeal.

Fantasy is generally more attractive than reality to most.
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#12763 - 10/16/08 05:32 PM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I believe that the two words are more or less compatible (to an extent).

Theistic Satanists range from a quasi-deist "satan as an abstract spiritual principle" standpoint to an extremely traditional-sounding "I pray to Satan as my personal god and father" form of devotional worship.

Most I've met believe in a mix of both, but problems start to arise when people get too "traditionally religious" (as in the latter), and start to lose their sense of reality in all the theistic trappings... usually the whole "spiritual warfare" mindset. Organizations like the ONA and JoS kinda lost their heads once they got preoccupied with their supernatural justifications for things like violence, bigotry, and racism... which is exactly main problem with Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam.



Edited by The Zebu (10/16/08 05:33 PM)
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#12778 - 10/17/08 07:35 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: The Zebu]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Spiritual doesn't mean fantasy. I mean we do have a spirit, whether it lives independantly of the body and brain is the big question and most here would say it doesn't.

That doesn't mean that you can't nuture your spirit. That may be as simple as walking through a field of wild flowers at sun set. For me, this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about my life and the world in general. Usually about then some fucking dickhead will come along and burst my bubble doing burnouts or something equally as stupid to make a 'mark' but for the time it lasts it is fulfilling the spirit.

Again, I'm not fluffy, or weak. I can be just as much of a hard cold bitch as anyone - however, I don't see Satanism as a reason to be 'empty'. Nor do I see not beleiving in a diety as a reason to be empty either. I guess it's the pantheist in me.

Zeph
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#12784 - 10/17/08 10:16 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: "Zebu"

Organizations like the ONA and JoS kinda lost their heads once they got preoccupied with their supernatural justifications for things like violence, bigotry, and racism... which is exactly main problem with Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam.

I would take it a step farther and say this is a major problem with all epistemology that involves an outside law giver. The second your 'primary authority' is outside yourself you must, at that moment, recognize you must act to appease this deity/entity.
Now anything can be justified, no matter how ridiculous or horrible, regardless of any natural morality or sense of what is right held by the believer.

 Originally Posted By: "Zephyr"

Spiritual doesn't mean fantasy. I mean we do have a spirit, whether it lives independantly of the body and brain is the big question and most here would say it doesn't.

I wouldn't say whether the spirit lives outside the body or not is a 'big question'. A much bigger question for me is 'what the hell is 'spirit' even supposed to mean??'.
If the metaphysical is left behind, spirit is basically just an abstract term to describe functions of the brain.

 Quote:

Again, I'm not fluffy, or weak. I can be just as much of a hard cold bitch as anyone - however, I don't see Satanism as a reason to be 'empty'. Nor do I see not beleiving in a diety as a reason to be empty either. I guess it's the pantheist in me.

Do you feel people that do not believe in a 'spirit' are inherently 'empty'? In a sense I agree, as i feel 90% or more of people are genetically inclined to believe in some sort of life after death scenario. I think this probably evolved as a reaction to the evolution of human self awareness, and hence the apprehension of death. A defense mechanism if you will.
On the other hand, I find the knowledge that I am a flesh and blood carnal animal, and all that comes with it, to be quite 'filling'
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#79699 - 08/25/13 11:08 AM Re: Octavius speaks #3 [Re: Octavius]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6863
Loc: Virginia
Did you take this video down Octavius? I can't seem to get it to play. I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say in this video, if you care to re-post it.
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