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#12039 - 09/30/08 10:30 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
Diavolo Offline
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Why would a person want to believe in god?

Leaving out those who can't but believe, in my opinion each desire (wanting) to believe in a god (or something similar) comes forth from an inferiority complex. It's the mindset of a slave; they need a master to give a purpose to their life and protect them from reality.

D.

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#12040 - 09/30/08 10:38 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I can give a possible answer as to why someone would want to believe in God;

Because they are weak; they feel that they need to have an invisible deity watching their every move, and want to believe there a happy place where they go and a nasty place where their enemies will go. They must also be masochistic if they want someone to tell them what to do and restrict them from having a good time whilst living.

They're also clutching at straws thinking there must be a thing that made them and made their every thought.

Edit: Here's my response to your reply to me, Lux

 Originally Posted By: lux
DistroyA:

"Why don't we want to believe in God? Because he is a cunt, that's why. Look at the untold destruction and suffering he has caused. If that's his divine plan and how loving this God can be, then I have no alternative but to NOT believe in him and proclaim myself as my own God."

Ok, a good answere as a satanist... what is wrong with suffering and destruction?
A lot of things. It's unnecessary to destroy what has been created, although nature destroys what has been created to continue the cycle of life. We on the other hand have no authority to take another person's life. If there is a God, and he's letting people get raped, killed and tortured, then he's a complete and utter cunt.

 Originally Posted By: lux
Look at your name.

Nothing so long as its you who is causing it and not enduring it?
My online handle has been used for years due to playing videogames of a violent nature. You going to to quiz me on that one too, seeing as it's been proven to be a good way to vent pent up negative emotions?

 Originally Posted By: lux
We have been around for 2000 years, longer if you consider Catholicism an extension of judiasim. We Know God does not cause the suffering and destruction, it is Satanism in its various forms that does. God permits this as he is permiting it to happen today..why.... I have already said.... "It is only in darkness that we can see his love shine"

That is why satanism can never over come it.
Okay, so assuming you have a wife and kids and whatnot. Then, all of a sudden, they get killed in a very violent way. If this is God's plan, how do YOU feel about it? Seems to me that this God is a sadistic mother fucker and LOVES to see his creations suffer, so would you still love him even if your family suffered an agonising death?

And Satanism has fuck all to do with the suffering and destruction. I can now see why you're here; just to insult us all, and make US feel bad for YOUR religions failings. You're nothing but a psychic vampire.

What's your reasoning? Because you've had it ingrained into you since you were a child?


Edited by DistroyA (09/30/08 10:49 AM)
Edit Reason: Didn't want to double post
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#12042 - 09/30/08 10:55 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Loc: Newcastle UK
Nykky:

"My answer -
I don't WANT to believe in God because to me God is not real.
I'll start believing if he comes down from Heaven above and slaps me across the face."

That is just like saying. I dont want to believe, because I dont believe.

"Give me a reason why you believe in God. Not something that you learned in church, or your Mom and Dad told you, or you read in the Bible. What makes you feel so strongly that there is a God?"

Have I not given you many already in pervious posts. I can not give you a reason I have not learned from others, but I can give you many that I have understood. This is from my own ability to understand that what I have read.

To whom will the weak look to defeat their advasary if not that which is stronger than their advasary. Which is stronger that which is natural or that which is supernatural?

"You cannot give me a reason because you were taught everything you know about God. You were not born believing in God. You do not know that God really truly exists. You have faith? Faith is crap, you learn faith. Deep down in your mind you know that there is no way to know anything for a fact because you won't meet your God until after you are dead, you are not dead therefore you do not know for a fact that God exists. You are basing all of you knowledge of God on faith, some crappy bible, and your parents, friends, whoever. Bibles are books you know and a lot of books are Fiction."

I will be honest I do not know without Doubt, I never said I Know God exists without doubt,I never said God exists and that is a Fact... what I said is I believe in God.

I do say the prayer.... "lord I believe, help my unbelief"

Man needs God...Men need God

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#12043 - 09/30/08 11:09 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Loc: Newcastle UK
DestroyA:

"I can give a possible answer as to why someone would want to believe in God;

Because they are weak"

Your spot on!

But then you go off on a tirade in totally the wrong direction. But I will let you figure that one out yourself.

Seriosuly I am not trying to insult you or make you feel bad, that is the last thing I want to do. I am comparing and debating the two philosphies. If me doing that makes you feel insulted and feel bad, then you should question why Christian philosophy makes you feel I am trying to insult you and think that I am trying to make you feel bad


Edited by lux (09/30/08 11:09 AM)

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#12044 - 09/30/08 11:15 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Loc: Newcastle UK
Diavolo:

"Why would a person want to believe in god?

Leaving out those who can't but believe, in my opinion each desire (wanting) to believe in a god (or something similar) comes forth from an inferiority complex. It's the mindset of a slave; they need a master to give a purpose to their life and protect them from reality."

LOL, your still looking to belief in God as in Belief in the Existance of God... "even the demons believe in (the existance of) God" I tread on very, very dangerous Ground....How about the concept of God?


Edited by lux (09/30/08 11:17 AM)

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#12045 - 09/30/08 11:25 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
No, I'm not going off in the wrong direction at all bub. You stated perfectly clear that Satanism in ALL it's forms is to blame for all the pain and suffering in the world, and not God.

For one, I never stated at any one time that God is causing the unnecessary pain and suffering to happen; I stated that he's letting it happen.

And two, you were clearly blaming Satanism in all it's forms for the aforementioned pain and suffering. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Anton LaVey NEVER told people to come join his club of God deniers; he just told them how he saw it and they decided on their own accord to join his Church. All of us here have chosen our paths, unlike yourself, so damn right I feel insulted when you blame Satanism for the pain and suffering in the world, as that tells me that YOU are blaming ME and the rest of us for rape, child molestation, and other untold atrocities. Am I to blame for shit that happened before I was born as well?

If anything, there has been more pain, suffering and death caused by people who have represented the fucking Vatican in history. If you want to blame anyone or anything for suffering, blame your religion's representatives in the past.

Talk about self righteousness...
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#12046 - 09/30/08 11:34 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I didn't want to resort to reverse-abrahamic elements, but at this point I see no other option. The following is written from a theistic standpoint, so perhaps you can understand.

Yahweh, as a god, presents himself as the one true god, who is the embodiment of goodness and mercy.

Yet throughout the old testament, he orders the Israelites to commit countless atrocities against other semetic tribes, with some vague goal of ethnic cleansing and religious/political dominion. Much of it can be summed up as: "All this land belongs to you, so feel free to slaughter anyone on it. Kill the men, kill the women, kill the children. But if you see any of their virgin daughters, feel free to rape them."

I don't care whether or not it actually happened. I realize times were different back then, but I would never EVER worship a god who endorsed such actions under ANY context.

From a henotheistic standpoint, Yahweh strikes me as a jealous, megalomaniacal deity- simply a minor tribal war god of the Israelites who is greedy for followers, and is a false pretender to the throne of the true Cosmic God. If I believed in the gods, Yahweh would be one of the last ones I'd worship.
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#12047 - 09/30/08 11:39 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: DistroyA]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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"No, I'm not going off in the wrong direction at all bub. You stated perfectly clear that Satanism in ALL it's forms is to blame for all the pain and suffering in the world, and not God."

I was talking of needing a deity to watch over our every move, I never said I blame satanisim in *all* its forms, but in its VARIOUS forms. Also I am not blaming satanists in their VARIOUS forms, but Satanism in its Various forms... Athiesm, Humanism, Paganism... so and so forth, the label is not important remember its what lies behind the name.

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#12050 - 09/30/08 11:54 AM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Paganism does not equate to Satanism, for it is it's own religion. Atheism and Humanism are not religions, but they certainly aren't Satanism. Sure, Satanism shares a lot of philosophies that Atheism and Humanism have, but it does add more to it to make it it's own philosophy and religion.

You haven't done much research, have you? Is all this "information" you're giving us what your pastor has told you? Why, I wouldn't be surprised if he were standing behind you right now watching you type and reading every post we've all made to counter your arguments. Put it this way; we aren't stupid, and we can see through your words.
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"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#12051 - 09/30/08 12:02 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
WAIT... did you just put Satanism, Athiesm, Humanism, and Paganism in the same category?

Satanism = No god but yourself. Not everyone is equal, and the strong dominate the weak.

Humanism = Everyone is equal in dignity and worth.

Paganism = There are many gods. Nature is sacred.

Atheism = There is no god. Nothing is sacred.

THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

What you're trying to do is separate everything into Christianity vs. Everything Else (aka Satan) which makes no sense at all. Please do some research.


Edited by The Zebu (09/30/08 12:03 PM)
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#12052 - 09/30/08 01:09 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Perhaps it is not that we don't WANT to believe in God, but that some of us are physically UNABLE to believe in God.

Dean Hamer is a molecular biologist at the National Institutes of Health, where he heads the Gene Structure and Regulation section at the National Cancer Institute. In his latest book, Hamer says certain brain chemicals affect higher consciousness and spirituality, and that the actions of these chemicals are linked to a gene his team has researched. He spoke to us recently about "The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Genes."

Read this article, and do a Google search for "God gene", read some more articles, develop some comprehension on this possiblity, then get back to us.

The Brain Chemistry of the Buddha
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Nothing is sacred.

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#12053 - 09/30/08 01:15 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: Nemesis]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Exactly. Even if I agreed with the philosophy of Christianity, I still find the idea of the supernatural to go against all of my ideas of logic and reason.
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#12054 - 09/30/08 02:37 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Can we please drop the demons and dangerous ground? It does not impress me at all and when you debate and start using that pseudo-whatever mumbojumbo, people are wondering if you actually know what you debate or are just shifting a bit around to hide you don't really have a solid argument for anything.

God and the concept of god are the same, so what's your point?

D.

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#12055 - 09/30/08 03:55 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: lux]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
But neither does it speak out/oppose those who wish to be as self centred as they wish, infact it encourages it, kindness and thinking of others are seen as weak, the less kind you are and the more self centred the stronger you are. I see that Satanism is about the self, but focusing on yourself means you fail to see others.


You're misunderstanding it Lux. Satanism is not egoism. Satanism doesn't prevent to be kind. Satanists are capable of truely love Lux ! Incredible isn't it ? \:D What appears to us be a weakness is to give our love to the ungrateful.
You has a similar advise in your own bible : "Don't throw your pearl to the pigs" (Mat 7-6). And I consider my love as a pearl, so I don't waste it. It is just unrealistic to love everybody!


 Quote:
But it is a hiararchy based on who is strongest, more dominant, tyranny is the reuslt of anarchy. Imagine a King who is a satanist, what terror he is to his people.


Politically, I define myself as an anarchist. I don't see anarchy as Tyranny. Anarchy is the ascence of authority, so just the opposite.
Being Stronger does not mean being nasty or evil. Satanists are kind with their friends, hard with their ennemies.

So I think that in such an anarchical society, where the nature is free to operate its magic, that society will auto-organise. Groups and associations can be created and disolved as necessary, as needed. I see the stronger taking the lead of such group, as "situational leadership".

What would then happen to the Satanists Community in such a situation? They would live in peace with pacific people (the Xians for instance). They don't take the initiative of hurting others. But if some evil guys would come steal or harm the community, then there'll be vengeance. I think he'll think twice coming again anoying us. I suppose he'll find the Xians better candidates for being their victims.
The same for the psychic vampires who will quick learn from whom they can suck their energy!

 Quote:
Why dont you want to believe in God?

Because I did it and it ended in an ordeal, Lux! Or your God exists and he's cruel or it does not exists and I curse those who invented him and put such ideas in my head.


 Quote:
"The Satanic Bible is only a very small starting point. If you don't think that the strong destroying the weak doesn't happen within EVERY SINGLE CHURCH ON EARTH, then you are blind to the real world, in which case, you will NEVER GET IT!"

again, should that be promoted as right?
Christianity condemns such action, Satanism appludes.


Again Lux, I think you misunderstanding Satanism. Satanism does not say that the stronger should destroy the weaker, just because he's the stronger.
In opened field, satanists will not annoy others. If someone annoys a satanists, the satanist will ask him to stop. If he doesn't stop, the satanist will destroy him.
I found similar mindset in some martial arts.

 Quote:
Churches are full of people, imperfect people... Christianity itself is not hypocritical, neither does it promote the expolitation of the weak... infact it condemns it.


Imperfect people? Your kidding or what? Do you think Torquemada was imperfect??? What a beautifull euphemism! He wasn't imperfect he was just EVIL ! And he was placed high in the Church Hierarchy !

We do not promote "imperfection", we're indulgent. The issue with abstinence is not with people who accept it freely (like some true christians or Satanists).
The problems comes when a Church, an authority imposes such abstinence. For the strongers, it'll not be an issue : or it will make it (as true Xians) or they will rebel against it (as true Satanists).
But think about the weaks who take on their shoulders a responsability, a commitment they'll not be able to respect. Those to weak for admitting their sins, thos too weak for rebelling and says "it's not a sin"?
Then they'll build a respectable façade and will commit their "sins" secretly.
Or like Torquemada, they'll will play the malignant, the Evil-minded, twisting his own bible for justificating their actions. They will argue & convince others that all these evil actions are justified by some good/God reason.

 Quote:
It amazes me, but i am begining to think I understand satanism better than some satanists, but of course the first thing satanism does is to focus the individual on themselves... if you want to do this, then do it, if you dont then dont...basically satanisim can be summed up as... "do what you want" but by focusing on yourself, perhaps you fail to see the bigger picture.... do you really want to release the so called "demons" from their prison?


Again Lux, you believe you understand but you don't. Focussing on oneself does not means being egoist. To me it's rather a matter of self-confidence. If you see our law as "do want you want" you omit to add " and take your responsabilities. Don't be stupid".
Yes we do what we want, but not in the "barbarian" sense you imagine.
I do what I want because I think I'm the better placed to decide what I should do! I have more info (including other's advises) about my situation (context but also emotonal state, values, feelings,...) than anyone else and I have 140 IQ points for logically finding what is best to do. Who can challenge me?
Don't forget we limit ourself in order to not hurt other. For instance, forced sex, rape is forbidden. But as long as the persons are adult & consenting for me there is no issue.

Satanists are not egoist or evil, they're just not submissive


You see Lux, you perhaps understand better Satanism than some Satanists.
But there are Satanists understanding it better than you!
May be you were a little bit pride of this "better understanding"... Don't worry about me, I'm indulgent \:\) See this with your God to know what he thinks...

Finally, are you even sure you understand Christianity and the bible better than me? Because I've been a true Christian. I was the [i]man about whom John said "Jesus, he's preaching your name but he's not with us". Note that's John, a member of the very first Church who rejects even that "good man". I think the Churches never stopped to do this.
I never belang to any Church. Satanism fits me because Church is accessory.

A little quiz for the very end?
You said Jesus was God, not the son of God. I know all Xians don't share this Catholic point of view.
In Mar 13-32 it's written: (I'm translanting from French "on the fly" so be indulgent ;\) ) "Regarding the day & the Hour, nobody knows, neither the angels, nor even the Son, but only the Father".
If Jesus, "the Son" is God and not the son of God, how can he ignores something God knows?

Fabiano

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#12056 - 09/30/08 04:01 PM Re: Modern Satanism isnt it just.... [Re: Diavolo]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Why would a person want to believe in god?

Leaving out those who can't but believe, in my opinion each desire (wanting) to believe in a god (or something similar) comes forth from an inferiority complex. It's the mindset of a slave; they need a master to give a purpose to their life and protect them from reality.

D.


Mmmmmh There might be some bright enlighted mind here ? \:D

I appreciate in particular the "protect them from reality"
!

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