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#1470 - 11/06/07 02:56 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I have recently decided that altruism is something that satanists should actually be striving to acheive.

Think about it all you hard core philosophers.

It is no longer the 60's.

Is it Saemual?
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#1986 - 11/17/07 08:51 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: TornadoCreator]
sludge grave Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Ukraine - Xarkiv
Very intelligent and absolutely great thread indeed.

But sadly what can i say... I fall short in being 20 years old still, in a country i had to migrate to, i depend on others for work, for studying, but imagine it like a cocoon, you are not born independent, i strive to become better, some one who believes in the better self, and the better land.

That what i think is a part of Satanism. To strive for a goal.

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#2074 - 11/20/07 08:13 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: TornadoCreator]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
Hmmmmmmmmmm conforming? If it means you can give the appearance of "fitting in" to keep yourself on a good wicket, then have fun with it \:\) I'm sure most of us have done it at least once. ;\)

Create a work persona that works to your benefit, tell them what they want to hear and then on payday and on the weekends, smile about how you're making it work for you \:\) (and have a good laugh at their expense)
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Too Many Idiots, not enough bullets

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#2075 - 11/20/07 08:20 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Circus_Hell]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
Bugger, half of my post was wiped out. I read this and I sound like Dr Phil This is indeed one of the most interesting threads so far, however it has been a very long day. I shall re write as far as I can recall so it makes sense, tomorrow

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Too Many Idiots, not enough bullets

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#2099 - 11/21/07 12:17 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Circus_Hell]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Well since my last post in this topic I've been working in a full time job (42 hours a week) in an Abattoir, unfortunately I'll likely have to quit my HND course because of this job though as there simply isn't enough time in the week for me to do 42 hours working and 16 hours in college every week.

I have cracked my self-inflicted counterproductive pride barrier now. I got the hair cut and shave that I was refusing to get for a long time and 'bent' the truth at the interview by simply omitting certain things and emphasizing others. Something I really hate doing as I despise lying, even if it does benefit me. I like to achieve things without having to resort to such methods.

Anyway, I now have a standard weekly job, Monday to Friday. It makes me a part of the infernal bloody machine but I'm actually fucking loving it. Yes it's a shite job with even shiter hours however it's also £900+ basic wage per month after tax, it's actually more but I'm not sure how the shift bonuses are payed. If you add overtime, bank holidays and any Sundays I work then I'm rolling in cash.

Some people may claim that I'm overly happy, after all a job that pays approx. £14,000 ($29,120 USA) is not the best payed job. But I was getting in benefits only £4,200 ($8,736 USA) per year to live off. It's a really big change.

So yeah, I'm not independent of an employer as I was when self employed but that didn't realistically work anyway as the money was unreliable. I am however now independent of 'the system', no longer having to claim irritating benefits that barely cover the cost of living. I can enjoy the free time I have left which is about 70-80 hours a week of free time (sleep already deducted) and I can afford to do what I want with it.

So yeah, everything is now working to my benefit I feel and on top of that, when I go out with my friends I have a sense of pride. Sure it's a shite job that anyone can do, but it's a job. I'm no longer the leach on society that their taxes go towards supporting. A lot can be said for that feeling, and it's a feeling I've longed for for a very long time.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#2103 - 11/21/07 04:03 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: TornadoCreator]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
So the conforming non-conformist has conformed...

Welcome to the Suck.

Here it is, loud and clear... kiss your ideals goodbye.

Maybe you'll understand what they mean by "money can't buy happiness".

(if there is any confusion on any part... I think I like you TornadoCreator... this was no jab at you, save in jest. I think maybe it's sadness I'm feeling)
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#2106 - 11/21/07 09:51 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: daevid777]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Maybe you'll understand what they mean by "money can't buy happiness".


Those who said it apparently had little money... While true happiness can be free... A bit of cash is always a good thing...

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#2108 - 11/21/07 11:05 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: TornadoCreator]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1753
Loc: New York
Congrats TornadoC. I can completely relate to how it sucks to have to conform, but like you said, it's better then relying on public assistance. However, if as you state, you feel positive about the changes that you have made, and have improved your standing in life, then it’s a good thing; at least for the time being.

If I may make one suggestion, what ever you do, do NOT fall for the credit slavery scheme. Now that you have a steady income, it would be very easy to start buying things, and consider paying for them later. It’s an awful trap to fall into, and once you do, you truly become a slave to the “machine.”
I learned this the hard way, and it took me years to get out of it.
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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#2113 - 11/21/07 03:06 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh yes! Debt is the surest path to slavery.

Thomas Jefferson had quite a bit to say on the subject. Google Jefferson and debt. Check out this link:

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/thomas+jefferson

It was the first thing to come up on Google.

When in doubt, ask Jefferson...
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#2114 - 11/21/07 03:41 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Fist]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1753
Loc: New York
He had some great words. Here's a few that really hit home.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for[ another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."


Here's one that is evident today:
"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction."

and the man had balls when he said,

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear... Do not be frightened from this inquiry from any fear of its consequences. If it ends in the belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise..."
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#2163 - 11/23/07 09:44 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Again, ask Jefferson!

He had quite a lot to say on just about everything. He (and his kind) believed in the primacy of the individual. They did not trust govt, banks, churches or other such institutions. They saw man as he was and did not pretend that the great mass of them possessed a noble character.

Among other things, Jefferson penned the Bill of Rights.

Sadly, today our idiot electorate would not vote Jefferson for local dog catcher - much less the POTUS.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#2169 - 11/23/07 02:05 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
My main pitfall is laziness--both mental and physical. I need to have a minimum amount of solid sleep to function at my normal level, and if that is interrupted in any sort of way, especially for consecutive nights, I veer towards laziness. And I get really bitchy about it. I find a lack of energy and motivation within myself to clean the house, do laundry, tidy up the cat boxes, the everyday things that simply need to be done, no questions asked. All I want to do is lie around and drift, perchance to sleep. I also don't always have the motivation to be as politically active as I think I should be, especially with so many issues that I feel strongly about (obviously not strongly enough for me to go out and picket or get a petition started).

The laziness extends into my work life as well. Not to say that I'm "lazy", per se--I bust my ass to get the work done and done correctly. What I mean is that I'm sure I could have found a higher paying, more enjoyable job over the years, but nah. I like what I do (for the most part), and I've become very good at it. So that gives me some pride in my work that I have not had in previous jobs. I get to exercise my sense of aesthetics when I make $1000 Prada or Fendi frames with Rx lenses. It's nice to know someone will be wearing my craftmanship everywhere they go, receiving compliments...No one else can seem to do as good of a job as I can with those particular kinds of frames (the rimless drilled ones--they're a bitch to work with), even people that have been with the company for twice as long as I have. It's come to the point when I'm the only one who can be trusted to do certain, high-problem jobs without fucking them up. For instance--a Transition Zeiss GT2 polycarbonate pair of lenses with Teflon anti-reflective coating. The coating is base price $60 (we're a wholesale lab, with opticians as our customers, not the individual consumer), the lenses, on average of $200. You, as the consumer, are going to pay twice and a half of that, so say, $500 for just the lenses. The frame the doctor sends us to mount the lenses into can be gold or silver-plated, with Swarovski crystals on the temples, sometimes a designer brand, like Coach, Fendi, Prada, Cazal, Dolce & Gabbana, Luxottica, etc. Expensive stuff, and some of it very easy to break because of the soft metals. Those kind of frames sell anywhere from $200-$500, sometimes more. A $1000 job we're talking here. When I do them, they come out perfect 95% of the time, with the occasionaly machine malfunction tainting my record. I could easily be a manager, but do I really want the increased responsibility? Is a $1 or 2 an hour really worth the extra hassle? And that's the kind of laziness I'm talking about. I get to a certain point and just say, eh, it's comfy here, why go on? It might cut into my sleep time ;\)
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#2175 - 11/23/07 07:38 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Nemesis]
Dragan Kasimir Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Denver, CO
This has been an interesting post thus far.

Satanism to me represents one thing above all else, Freedom. The freedom to believe, say, and do exactly what you want, without caring about the “feelings” of those whom would rather be slaves to Political Correctness and Orthodox Mannerism. True Freedom from all social stigmas.

In my case, a lot of people (a certain Church in the North-East) find some of my interests “bad”, and promotes a bad image for them. And I let this get to me. I fail at the “Responsibility to the Responsible” section. I recently partook in a heated debate regarding rather or not I should be free to study and appreciate the topic of dispute – instead of letting the ignorance of their argument fester among themselves and die, I had to feed the Psychic Vampire and defend myself until my eventual “banning” of their forum.

I need to work on letting go of non-winning arguments, instead of believing that I can teach old dogs new tricks. I need to stop wasting energy on people whom do not deserve it.

Anyway, great thread so far, can’t wait to read future posts.

-D. Kasimir
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“Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways”
- William Shakespeare

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#2182 - 11/23/07 11:18 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Dragan Kasimir]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I have many friends who don't outright know I'm a Satanist as far as I can tell. I've never gone out of my way to tell them however I also don't hide it. I have Christian, Atheist and Buddhist friends. I also know someone who claims to be Jewish but is a damn Atheist, he just doesn't want to upset the family by telling them he doesn't believe in "ceiling-cat".

I could argue with them about why I ignore religion and why I'm able to live a happy life without religion but it wouldn't be worth it. We would just end up 'agreeing to disagree' which gets us nowhere. I have explained my stance on selfishness and how EVERYTHING I do is for me, even when I help someone it's because I want to because I'll be happier having done it. I tried to explain that true altruism doesn't exist, everything you do for someone else you get something out of it even if it's only a feeling of happiness, that is why you do it. They didn't like this fact because it made them feel less noble and rather than argue they go extremely uncomfortable and started dismissing the conversation outright.

Remember people find our way of thinking difficult because the delusions bring happiness (as most delusions do) and they don't want to let go of that.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#2187 - 11/24/07 05:47 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
Hmmm... Where I fail?

Let's see... Well, three things I can think of. One is that often when I try to act satanically, doing little things for myself that make me happy without hurting others, either ends up hurting someone I didn't intend or hurting myself in the long run. It's kind of annoying. Probably would be easier to act the way I want if I were on my own, but I don't have the job to rent the apartment and pay for the bills and maintain the car insurance and the medical insurance and... well, you get the picture.

Second, I really dislike the whole, conforming on the outside to convince others that you are deserving of the things you want, thing. I've done it for so long... and usually I can go for a long time pretending to be someone else, but eventually it overwhelms me. I went to Catholic school for six years, at least three of which I had to try really hard to conform to even social standards and dress code, but even before that, I wasn't Catholic, which made things difficult. I was raised an Episcopalian, which none of my classmates understood. We had to go to Mass once a month where everyone but me was allowed to receive communion, which was embarrassing. Typically, a Catholic receives their first communion in second grade, but before then they cross their arms over their chest and stand in line to receive a blessing from the priest. I had to do the same thing as all of the little kids, which was especially bad in 7th and 8th grade. I wasn't given the option to just stay and sit in the pew or something, which was annoying. I probably would have gotten detention. I was also asked once on the playground, "Episcopalian? What is that? Are you some kind of Bhuddist or something?" Which was funny, but really annoying, because of the ignorance of people who think that there are no other types of Christian besides the one their parents taught them. In more recent events, I wound up giving up a pretty sweet job, almost a dollar more than minimum wage, regular hours, and intellectual stimulation, because I couldn't stand having to pretend to be someone I wasn't. I wanted to dye my hair and wear my piercings and act like myself, but I couldn't. I finally gave up, quit, dyed my hair purple and gaged my earrings to 8s. After a few months the lack of income got too much to bear, so I had to find a new job. The one I have now is even more restrictive, with even less pay and really annoying hours. I only have to work two or three times a week, but it's usually from 6pm to 10 or 11pm, with the next day being at 8am or 9am... and it's always weekends, which really messes up a teenager's social life. I had to work Thanksgiving too, and probably Christmas, though I don't know for certain yet. The biggest problem is that I'm making about half as much money as I used to which is annoying since the hours are so bad, I think I deserve more. But AMC Theaters is a big company, and they don't do raises.

Third, and probably the most Satanic failure, is in relationships. I usually start out as a dominant female with a charismatic personality that draws people to me. As time goes on, however, I become selfless, maternal, and clingy, the only way I was ever taught to be in a relationship. My mother was like that, her mother was like that, and all of my female friends are like that. It just doesn't work, especially when the guys who are drawn to your independence and dominance realize that you can ALSO be submissive, servile, and dependent. I let my happiness get tied up too tightly with the happiness of others. Then I get broken up with and feel like I've failed somehow, even when it's entirely their fault...

So I suppose that's all I can think of.

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