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#3194 - 01/07/08 04:38 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Raven]
Rainy Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: US Florida Tampa Bay
This is the first topic I have compelled enough with to post my own respone to...I am interested to see what type of response I get...


I am a bit torn on deciding exactly what qualifies as a weakness as far as striving to live the way a satanist is "supposed to live", or aleast attempt to follow the basic principals of Satanism.

There are certainly things which I feel I don't do as well at as I would like. One thing is that I feel that I spread myself out too far, in terms of perfecting a craft. I am a creative person, and I love to create things. I feel like I could have, at this point, been more sucessful in my life if I would just pick one thing, and stick with it. I paint, then I move onto sculpting, then I try sewing, then I expirement with book binding, writing, and so on. I try so hard to learn and stretch my abilities to the point the I dont feel like I have really gotten as good as I could at any one thing. But as much as I think that this may have held me back and I get disapointed with myself, I also feel like maybe this isnt such a bad trait, since I am atleast constantly expanding my knowledge of different arts. So am I really hurting myself by limiting my own sucess in this way, or am I just indulging in whatever stikes my fancy at any given time therefore making myself happy and improving my scope? It depends on the day, I suppose.

Another thing I feel I show weakness is my smoking habit. I recently began smoking again after quitting while I was pregnant. I smoke like a freakin chimney, just like I did before I had the bun in the oven. I dont smoke anywhere near my child, and I wash my hands and all do all those other good things to keep the poison away from the babe, so I feel no guilt in that respect. But when he isnt around, or is sleeping, I just puff away. I really like smoking, I can honestly say, although I am well aware part of it is the addiction telling me how much I like it. I am logical about it, I know its killing me, I know its expensive, and unhealthy, etc. I also can say that I enjoy the act of smoking, the idea that it is purely selfish and indulgent is appealing to me. I have to be pretty selfless as I get older. Being married with child requires that you put your famliy first, however, I feel like smoking is my own selfish thing that I do for no other reason than because I enjoy it. at the same time, I feel like I m doing my family a disservice by possibly depriving them of myself if these things do kill me later on in life, and knowing my husband doesnt smoke and probably isnt too keen that I do makes me feel a bit bad about it. So I have 2 logical ways of looking at it. Again I am torn here.

I also have this unrepressable urge to forgive people which are not always deserving of forgiveness. If someone wrongs me, I get mad, I show them that I do not approve in whichever way deems appropriate for the situation. But for some reason, I cannot hold onto those negative feelings required to hold a grudge. I cant help but remember times when I myself acted in such a way as to cause emotional harm to someone (I have yet to harm anyone physically), only to learn from my mistake, figure out what went wrong, and pretty much not do it again. I cant help but assume others have the same dialogue within themselves, and therefore feel as though they probably werent truely aware of what they did and have learned for their mistakes. I cannot fault someone for making a mistake they didnt know they were making at the time. Mostly though, people are too stupid or careless to actually learn or give a damn that they did something wrong. I know this on the surface, but deep down I dont hold many people in contempt, even when I know I should. I respect people who are not worthy of respect. This is a pretty definate weakness. I dont have too much confusion on this one. I just cant stay mad at people. I do try to simply remove these folks from my life when the offense occurs nowadays, therefore I wont be faced with the knowledge that I am being too forgiving, since they will mostly likely not contact me in the future anyway. At this point, I think I have about 3 friend left. Ha.

So thats what I can come up with at this particular moment. I know I have more faults than this, for sure. But not too many are "non-satanic", I would say. I dont think being too lazy to dye my roots again quailifies for this thread.
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#3199 - 01/07/08 10:35 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Rainy]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Rainy
So am I really hurting myself by limiting my own sucess in this way, or am I just indulging in whatever stikes my fancy at any given time therefore making myself happy and improving my scope? It depends on the day, I suppose.

Very well said… To think we are beyond human is a mistake…

 Quote:
I dont smoke anywhere near my child, and I wash my hands and all do all those other good things to keep the poison away from the babe, so I feel no guilt in that respect.

What about when they smoke due to seeing mommy smoking? After all mommy does it then it is ok no?

 Quote:
I am logical about it, I know its killing me, I know its expensive, and unhealthy, etc. I also can say that I enjoy the act of smoking, the idea that it is purely selfish and indulgent is appealing to me.

I agree with you there, to each his/her own vice…

 Quote:
I feel like I m doing my family a disservice by possibly depriving them of myself if these things do kill me later on in life, and knowing my husband doesnt smoke and probably isnt too keen that I do makes me feel a bit bad about it. So I have 2 logical ways of looking at it. Again I am torn here.

We all have to die, of something… Somehow picking your own poison is ok with me…

 Quote:
I also have this unrepressable urge to forgive people which are not always deserving of forgiveness.

Did this come with being a mom?

 Quote:
If someone wrongs me, I get mad, I show them that I do not approve in whichever way deems appropriate for the situation. But for some reason, I cannot hold onto those negative feelings required to hold a grudge.

Perhaps the things that get you mad are truly trivial and you treat them as such… If someone were to do something terrible to you and your action was to turn the other cheek… Well then that is a weakness…

Forgiving the common imbecile when that is really the only thing to do, could be seen as a strength not a weakness…

 Quote:
I cant help but remember times when I myself acted in such a way as to cause emotional harm to someone (I have yet to harm anyone physically), only to learn from my mistake, figure out what went wrong, and pretty much not do it again. I just cant stay mad at people. I do try to simply remove these folks from my life when the offense occurs nowadays, therefore I wont be faced with the knowledge that I am being too forgiving, since they will mostly likely not contact me in the future anyway.

Well limiting how you act out of fear of making a mistake could be seen as a very large weakness…

 Quote:
I cant help but assume others have the same dialogue within themselves, and therefore feel as though they probably werent truely aware of what they did and have learned for their mistakes. I cannot fault someone for making a mistake they didnt know they were making at the time. Mostly though, people are too stupid or careless to actually learn or give a damn that they did something wrong.

Now your touch on the major difference between them and us… We should be smart enough to learn from our mistakes…

 Quote:
At this point, I think I have about 3 friend left. Ha.

Three friends are worth much more than numerous acquaintances…

Peace

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#3200 - 01/07/08 11:31 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: ta2zz]
L Fern Tej Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
my turn

Dear diary,
i've always had this image in my mind of a satanist being determined, goal achieving, individuals.
yet, if you glanced at my "myspace" profile even for a second you'd see where i fall short.
i seem to care far to much about my appearance and what people think about me, so much so that it directly affects my life and puts my future in parrell.
academicly i've failed just about every grade since the 1st grade...not untill last year have i been held back.
i'm repeating the 9th grade, and i'm positive i'm failing this current semster as well.
Believe me, i'm no half-wit, i'd actually consider myself above magnet school material (but find myself in lower end classes).

well if im so concerned with improving my grades and getting to a decent college why not just start caring less about how im judged by the social fabric of the world around me and start caring more about how im judged academicly?
it's a simple matter of the fact that i have always been this way since i was a weeeeee little lad. (5 or 6 yrs. old) and i cant just go about changing my state of mind without completely changing myself.
which is something i'm not willing to do.
it doesn't help any that i'm extremely lazy as well ;p

i've always admired satanist because they seem so accomplished and of such sound reason, and these 2 areas my good people, are where i fall short.

im no satanist though mainly because i don't feel like one, nor do I agree with satanist on some priciples consequently, this is just 1 of many reasons where i fail not only at satanist standards, but to mine as well.



Edited by L Fern Tej (01/07/08 11:45 PM)
Edit Reason: choice better words

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#3201 - 01/07/08 11:34 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: ta2zz]
Rainy Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: US Florida Tampa Bay
I didnt touch on the idea of showing my son that smoking is OK by my own example. I do realize that this is a possibility. I also feel that by his father not smoking, he is even more likely to question why I do. Why does Mom smoke but not Dad? Why is Mom hacking up a lung, while Dad seems pretty healthy? Also, simply telling a child whats healthy and not healthy is a more preventative measure than most people give credit. I know that if my mother had just talked to me even once when I was young about not smoking, even though she does, I probably wouldnt have started. I really cant say for sure what direction that will go, but it is on my list of reasons why I feel smoking goes against some of my principals.

I do not get mad over trival things. It is pretty hard to get me mad, actually. I wouldnt say I ever turn the other cheek, but I am pretty thick skined. The small things people do that are annoying dont get me worked up enough to be truely angry. I just know that small things arent worth the energy it takes to become upset. I also dont limit how I act out of fear of making a mistake. I act as comes naturally, and if a mistake becomes apparent, it is my responibility to myself to try to learn from it. If the action that caused me to make said mistake turns out to be worth the consequences, then, well, fuck it. I will do it again if it seems worth it. But I wont be able to determine if this is the case unless I have that dialogue inside. And I (usually wrongfully) assume that other people also question themselves in this way. Thats where I end up being to forgiving.

And yes, 3 true friends are far more valuable than numerous acquaintances. And it makes life alot easier the fewer people you know.
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#3206 - 01/08/08 07:14 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Rainy]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I think that the chances are pretty good that if one of his parents does not smoke, he won't either. That's the way it was between my parents--mom smoked, dad didn't. I have not once in my life wanted to start up smoking. My dad always reinforced the idea that smoking is horrible for you, and since I always had a hard time breathing around my smoking mother, it was an idea I came to believe in as well. You also seem to be considerate of your child's health, and hold that above your desire to smoke all the time, which is always a good thing.
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#7398 - 04/07/08 07:23 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Nemesis]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I think my shortcomings lie within me putting things off when they need doing, being too cowardly when having to face certain responsibilities, being confused about what I want out of life, not thinking rationally, counter-productive pride and being easily distracted.

I really need to sort these issues out very soon, as I'm finding life somewhat less satisfying.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#7427 - 04/08/08 05:11 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I have always been a completely self-reliant person and despise the idea of being controlled by anyone or anything that stems beyond the absolute necessities of life. Aside from a part-time job I had when I was sixteen years old, I have always had an income and a life that revolved around working for myself. I own my own business and have the luxury of doing something I deeply enjoy, and I use the term “luxury” with consideration of the fact that I would not settle for anything less. But the fact of the matter is that being self-employed is somewhat over-glamorized and there are many things going on behind the scenes which can sometimes tie you down in a way that seems to actually mimic the restrictions you would face if you actually worked for a larger entity.

There is still work that needs to be done and people who depend on your services, and if you are a person with any self-respect it will only bring you misery if you allow yourself to significantly fail either. While most of the people you deal with may be sane or even pleasant, there are still a handful of mentally impaired morons and self-righteous assholes that think the world revolves around them and their immediate wants. No matter what you choice of employment, there will always be the odd scumbag that comes along that turns an otherwise enjoyable job into a temporary nightmare.

So what I’m trying to tell you is that you shouldn’t necessarily be so hard on yourself. Speaking as someone on the other side of the fence, I can tell you that the grass is not always greener on the other side. You also happen to live in a country where health care is not cheap and I’m guessing that if you were in fact self employed you would lose a lot of the benefits (thus costing you more money in the long term) that you now enjoy. You talk about “having to play the obedient sheep and follow the whims of many different managers and bosses,” but at the end of the day whether you’re self employed or not, there’s still a pile of work that needs to be done and a long line of being wanting to be pleased.

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#7428 - 04/08/08 05:37 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Succubus666]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
Thank you for the insight.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#7440 - 04/09/08 10:14 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
Hmm, I really liked this thread. Grats to you Asmedious for thinking of this. ;\)

Now I think my two main faults are: I'm too laid back, and I'm too nice.

Now not to say that Satanists in general are not nice, but I'm too nice at times to take what I want. To take what would better my life. combine that with the fact that my main philosophy would be "Time heals everything" which, I know as well as anyone is not true. But I continue to be laid back and relax, and continually make choices that do not better myself but instead, gradually put things off. Such as things as simple as; if I have homework or a paper to write and theres a party, I almost always will choose the party, procrastinating and putting things off until they need to be done.

The fact that I am too nice has also hindered my own progress many more times than I can count. An example is that I forgive way to easily and the famous quote " Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." comes into play. I forgive and I give up my own pleasures for others. If I have 5$ for lunch after class and a friend of mine forgot there money. I am usually more than glad to give them the money so that they can eat. Only thing is, I end up losing out for it.

Although I am gradually fixing my faults, they are still there. I am more to the point where I'm on a balance of not giving too much and giving just enough. Being just enough nice, and being just the right amount of relaxed. I'm getting better at knowing when I should lay back and relax, and when I should get to work. I suppose this is coming to me in age though. You learn as you grow.

As to the working for the government and for other people being satanic.. Well.

My point of view is that no matter what we do, we are always working for someone else. But in the end we are working for our own benifit. To live and to earn money to live. Our main goal is to help ourselves, but we inevitably work to help out society.

Anyway I'm heading out, be back later guys.

~~ Snow ~~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#7446 - 04/09/08 07:16 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: PigFeeder]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
"Kindness to those who deserve it..." - Anton LaVey

There's nothing wrong with kindness. The dark facade that most Satanists seem to think is required is often nothing more than posturing. As to charity, there is no act of kindness that is completely selfless. Even if you give your broke pal 5 bucks for lunch, he is now indebted to you, both financially, as well as within your social order if you play your cards right. You've shown you have disposable money whereas he has none, thus (probably subconsciously) elevating his opinion of you on some level. Now, keep in mind there is a big difference between a "sap" who goes around lending money to chums in order to try and kiss up, and giving someone money in order to secure his view of you as a superior. You'll need to compose yourself appropriately, and keep his debt to you in the forefront of his mind until repaid.

There is much more on this in many books, two of which I've recommended to you, Snow, in another post. Indeed, kindness to those who deserve it, but never without personal benefit. Whether that benefit is truly based on mutual respect and deep friendship, or in memetic motive. Either way, you get a warm fuzzy feeling...you win.

Octavius
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#7449 - 04/09/08 10:49 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Octavius]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
Sometimes one just helps friends out because they don't want to see them in a tight spot. But yes, I do have to agree, that every act is a selfish act, if one is able to be completely honest with oneself. As Octavius said, even if it's to get that "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

Edited by Asmedious (04/09/08 10:50 PM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#7459 - 04/10/08 08:31 AM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Octavius]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
True, what you say does make a lot of sense. I really have to get a hold of those books. ;\) I've actually already asked somone if they have them and they're looking around there files for an online version. PDS file I do believe? The extension escapes my memory.

Id don't do things for others so that they feel indebted to me, I don't do it kiss up either. I'm not even sure why, I think it's because I hate to see others in distress. But I should be worrying about me. "Rise above all else, even yourself". Here's an example:

Theres this girl in one of my classes who sits near me. She's always been a bitch to me and countless times I've wished she was dead. One incident in which I wished this was when she almost got me expelled. I was sowing my bag for my books in class ( Don't ask lol. >_< Was bored. ) and she yells out that I have a weapon. A sowing needle... To purposefully get me in trouble. I am generally a quiet nice guy, so I don't know what her problem is with me. Maybe she feels intimidated because I dress darker than most others. I wanted to take that needle and stab her in the eye with it though. A few days later shes in class and she's complaining about a migraine and basically wincing in pain. So I reach into my bag and pull out my last advil for her and give her my unopened bottle of water. She gives the water back and says thanks. The very next day I was writing something in class when everyone was listening and the proffessor walks up to the front of the desks and asks me what I could be writing, and this girl yells out It's a suicide note. And she starts laughing along with everyone else. So I gathered my stuff calmly and quietly and left. See the thing is with me, I'm generally respected because of who I am. People are in a way afraid of me because they know I can fight and because most of them think I'm crazy. 95% of the guys where I go will back down from a fight with me. But women, that's different. 90% of the women I meet like me for who I am and respect me because as I said, in general, I'm a nice person. But the other 10% for some reason dislike me and seem to make my life a living hell. So my problem is I'm still to nice to people even if they aren't nice to me. I don't think of stuff when I do things like give the girl and Advil, I just do it. Like an impulse. Any helpful adivice?


P.S. Like any other animal on the planet, humans are no different. Nobody will bother me when alone and they will even be nice to me. But in a group they feel stronger and have to prove themselves, so that's where the shit starts.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#7464 - 04/10/08 06:26 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: PigFeeder]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
that is when you have a talk to them one on one then pigfeeder,
you could resort to violence make an example of one of them, or manipulation, befriend to destroy them, keep your friends close but your enemy closer. either way if they feel stronger when they are a group attack them individually, spread lies about them try to destroy this core group if you dont want to resort to violence.i never had your problem as i was 100 percent feared the only things people said was in my absence. they would not dare say it to my face but going down that road has its downsides as well, mainly your social life will suffer. when the halls part as you walk through sure it is an awsome feeling but trying to get laid and shit becomes alot harder when you are feared to that extent. i would suggest a few paths.befriend one of them just mimic,charm,be what they want to see at least personalty wise.then destroy them internally or actually be friend them and use them as an ally. or find the alpha of the group and get them alone.make sure their alone or their pride will come into play. be prepared to hurt this perosn.now you can use intimidation or just flat out violence.either way inspire fear.better that you don't use violence and can just intimidate them, threaten them with violence and they will think twice before publicly attacking you if you inspire enough fear before hand.

either way you have to put a stop to this. the key is get them alone, many are big and tough in the mob mentality but get them alone its a different story.nice guys finish last as you learning. now if it was me i would have publicly mocked this girl with the headache say something witty and made the class turn on her .their would have been no incident with the suicide note,if you are witty enough and sharp no one will mock you publicly for fear of looking like a fool ,or worse if they find you in alley.

wit and brutality is a vicious combination. but you silently walking out the room as you are being mocked does not inspire that image.you made your self even more of a target by your actions. hell if you not witty at the very least pick up a desk and throw it at a random person that is laughing, rage can be a powerful tool.clear that room out and your public mocking will stop .one act of violence publicly will make people think what will he do next if i ridicule him.the fear will keep them in line.

i was know as a psycho. but i took it to far.hell for both grade five and grade nine i had to have a adult, the school board assigned with me at all time to be allowed on school property as i was a danger to other students witch in turn inspired even more fear. don't take it that far.

but still you need at least one act of violence prefebly on a random person and publicly .ie some one close that was laughing with the attacker this will inspire fear on both the attacker as they saw your brutality and on everyone else as it seems you where so mad you took it out on the nearest person.witch will give you the unpredictably angle which will also inspire fear. then it will be smooth sailing but don't do what i did. i got addicted to that power.

( for clarification when i say one act of violence im not talking about walking into your school with a tek 9 and gunning everyone down.) fucking sad world when one has to actually put that disclaimer in their) pc fear based culture at its finest.

inspire fear pigfeeder!!
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#7465 - 04/10/08 07:47 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: Asmedious]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
A major fault of mine is obsessing over unimportant things. To me to be a Satanist means to be your own God and to have pride in yourself and your achievements. But I tend focus on my faults to the point of unhealthy obsession. For which I then beat myself up too much over the little things I messed up that don’t even matter in the end. So even though it helps me push myself, sometimes I push myself to the point of where it’s unhealthy.
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#7467 - 04/10/08 08:08 PM Re: Where do you fail? [Re: rob_church]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
 Originally Posted By: rob_church
that is when you have a talk to them one on one then pigfeeder,
you could resort to violence make an example of one of them, or manipulation, befriend to destroy them, keep your friends close but your enemy closer. either way if they feel stronger when they are a group attack them individually, spread lies about them try to destroy this core group if you dont want to resort to violence.i never had your problem as i was 100 percent feared the only things people said was in my absence. they would not dare say it to my face but going down that road has its downsides as well, mainly your social life will suffer. when the halls part as you walk through sure it is an awsome feeling but trying to get laid and shit becomes alot harder when you are feared to that extent. i would suggest a few paths.befriend one of them just mimic,charm,be what they want to see at least personalty wise.then destroy them internally or actually be friend them and use them as an ally. or find the alpha of the group and get them alone.make sure their alone or their pride will come into play. be prepared to hurt this perosn.now you can use intimidation or just flat out violence.either way inspire fear.better that you don't use violence and can just intimidate them, threaten them with violence and they will think twice before publicly attacking you if you inspire enough fear before hand.

either way you have to put a stop to this. the key is get them alone, many are big and tough in the mob mentality but get them alone its a different story.nice guys finish last as you learning. now if it was me i would have publicly mocked this girl with the headache say something witty and made the class turn on her .their would have been no incident with the suicide note,if you are witty enough and sharp no one will mock you publicly for fear of looking like a fool ,or worse if they find you in alley.

wit and brutality is a vicious combination. but you silently walking out the room as you are being mocked does not inspire that image.you made your self even more of a target by your actions. hell if you not witty at the very least pick up a desk and throw it at a random person that is laughing, rage can be a powerful tool.clear that room out and your public mocking will stop .one act of violence publicly will make people think what will he do next if i ridicule him.the fear will keep them in line.

i was know as a psycho. but i took it to far.hell for both grade five and grade nine i had to have a adult, the school board assigned with me at all time to be allowed on school property as i was a danger to other students witch in turn inspired even more fear. don't take it that far.

but still you need at least one act of violence prefebly on a random person and publicly .ie some one close that was laughing with the attacker this will inspire fear on both the attacker as they saw your brutality and on everyone else as it seems you where so mad you took it out on the nearest person.witch will give you the unpredictably angle which will also inspire fear. then it will be smooth sailing but don't do what i did. i got addicted to that power.

( for clarification when i say one act of violence im not talking about walking into your school with a tek 9 and gunning everyone down.) fucking sad world when one has to actually put that disclaimer in their) pc fear based culture at its finest.

inspire fear pigfeeder!!


Mr. Church,

Do you think about what you write before you post? Are you actually telling our dear adept Snow to engage in school violence? Do you realize what you might be doing to this impressionable young man? What if he were to interpret your post as an advocation of violence and consequently mowed down half of his class with granddad's hunting rifle? Perhaps word gets out that he was inspired to commit some heinous act from some idiot who replied to him on an online Satanic forum.

Take some responsibility. As "elder" leaders here at the 600 Club it falls upon us to educate younger Satanists in a rational and practical manner. Your advice, despite the casual disclaimer, is about the worst possible thing I could imagine telling our young friend. I expected more from you.

Snow, please do yourself a favor and disregard this idiot's advice.

Octavius
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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