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#13063 - 10/21/08 06:46 AM Creationist nonsense
blsk Offline
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I have not yet finished the whole article myself but thought, as this is a hot topic in schools, it may be beneficial (or at least a concern)to some of you.Creationist nonsense

I personally am not an evolutionist. What are your views on the matter?


Edited by blsk (10/21/08 07:34 AM)
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#13065 - 10/21/08 07:01 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
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I don't really know what you wanna know upon the subject but in short, creationism is the theory that all life on earth, earth itself and everything around is created by god.

The big problem for everyone believing in god is that science at one point came up with evolution and selection.
Man comes from a monkey, imagine that, and on top of it all, they could provide a solid theory with evidence supporting it.

Now, that was not too good for all those believers, so an opposition grew and still grows to claim that was all nonsense and yes, god did really really create everything.
That is what creationism is about; provide contra-arguments for everything that might indicate god could not have done it and it could have happened on itself.

The big problem with it is, and I assume it is rather limited to the USA, that they want to teach it in the schools as an equally valid theory as the scientific one. It's more nonsense to indoctrinate kids at an early age and keep them safely under the wings of god.

I could go deeper into it, but I could never explain it as good as some communities out there, so if you want details and loads of info about the ongoing war, surf a bit around, you can't miss it.

D.

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#13066 - 10/21/08 07:07 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Diavolo]
blsk Offline
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Right. I wasn't asking but pointing out an article on the matter. Please p.m. me if it's not working. The article covers it quite well.
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#13069 - 10/21/08 07:12 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
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Ah ok, didn't know what to make of your first post, so I decided to give a short view upon it, wondering if that might be what you requested.

Now you've edited it, it's more obvious.

The link works, no problem there.

D.

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#13071 - 10/21/08 07:14 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Diavolo]
blsk Offline
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OH, ok good.
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#13080 - 10/21/08 11:09 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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I remember when I was in highschool quite a few kids made a fuss when it came to discussing evolution in class. I actually thought it was funny. A few actually thought just by hearing it they could go to hell. I'm glad to be out of there but sometimes, sometimes I wish I was there all over again.
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#13099 - 10/21/08 01:20 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
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Haha, well I doubt you'll find any creationists here.

The article touches on a few things that particularly annoy me about creationists, aside from the outright idiocy of believing in a literal interpretation of Genesis-

1. Their delusion that there is a huge controversy among scientists, and that evolution is "heavily under fire" from new evidence as more and more researchers are supporting creationism. This is an outright lie. The only people who support creationism are a handful of fundamentalist nutjobs, and every so often some Chrisitan professor with a PHD joins their ranks when their diehard belief in absurd fairy-tales got in the way of reality-based factual research. (And then they bitch and whine about being "persecuted".) The controversy is incredibly minor, and the vast majority of scientists support evolution.

2. They keep on chanting "Evolution is only a theory!" like it actually means something. So what? Most everything else we teach in science class is also a theory. That still doesn't change the fact that it has OVERWHELMING SCIENTIFIC SUPPORT.

3. It is a purely Abrahamic religious phenomenon. Find me an Atheist scientist who thinks that the earth is only a few thousand years old and was made in seven days. Yeah, that's what I thought.

4. Their ideas about the age of the earth alone is enough to completely contradict all we have observed geology, anthropology, genetics, and astronomy. So if you're going to overthrow all of modern science, you're going to need some goddamn good evidence.... so where is it?

5. Intelligent design strips it all down to "Evidence suggests that maybe something like a God might have created the universe", but even so, it takes everything else for granted. This is purely a matter of faith. But this god cannot be perfect, as the universe is flawed.

In summary, I believe that God created the universe, but I propose God is an amorphous tentacled horror enthroned in the nucleus of ultimate chaos, the transcendent embodiment of creation and destruction, blasphemously writhing to the piping of thin reeds and the beating of vile drums. Hail Azathoth! Iä! Iä!
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#13100 - 10/21/08 01:21 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Quote:

I personally am not an evolutionist.

I translate this as 'you don't like science and cant be bothered to learn'

That evolution happens is not under debate by anyone aside from creationist hicks.

By the way 'evolutionist' is a creationist buzzword. Every time you use it you are playing into their propaganda.
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#13134 - 10/21/08 06:54 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
The Zebu Offline
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 Originally Posted By: blsk

I personally am not an evolutionist. What are your views on the matter?


You are not an evolutionist? What exactly does this mean, since you don't quite sound like a creationist either.

Meaning, do you not believe in macroevolution (reptiles evolving into birds, etc) or do you rather support intelligent design (ie, that life arose through divine means)? It really wouldn't make sense to support the first, and the label of the second is so riddled with connections to Creationism I would use some other term if I were you....

So either you are misusing the term or you are a complete moron.
: D
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#13153 - 10/21/08 08:39 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: The Zebu]
blsk Offline
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I must be misinformed on the use of the word. Evolution as I understand it, and this may be where the confusion lies, is chance. Yet what is placed before us is adaptation. Again, I havn't finished the article myself and it may clarify. The creationist view is total crap, but if I understand evolution correctly i'm not quite jumping on that wagon either.
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#13192 - 10/22/08 07:55 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
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Evolution isn't adaptation, that would imply that a lifeform has somewhat of a choice or control of what direction to take. A polar bear never looked up and said; think it's gonna get chilly, let's grow some more fur and while we are at it, go buy some bleach.

Evolution is blind and while the concept of survival of the fittest is interpreted by many as the survival of the one being able to adapt best, I think survival of the luckiest is a bit more correct.

Mutations happen all the time and if a lifeform is lucky enough to have some sort of mutation that gives it an edge in survival and following reproduction (continuing those mutated genes), it will more likely continue to exist. If you're a giraffe and because of some mutation, your neck is an inch short than the others, you are lickely to be out-reproduced when conditions are not at your advantage.

D.

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#13196 - 10/22/08 08:07 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Diavolo]
lux Offline
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"I personally am not an evolutionist. What are your views on the matter?"

I am an eveoloutionary creationist.

"God made adam from the dust of the Earth"

I.e God Made adam in a natural way according to his divine will

Think about it..."from the dust of the earth"... is not the bible giving us a "primitive" evoloution theory?

Because we understand better, doesnt mean we understand more.

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#13197 - 10/22/08 08:11 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
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I may rightfully assume that you can't provide me proof beyond 'he told me so' or 'it is written in da book'?

D.

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#13198 - 10/22/08 08:15 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Diavolo]
lux Offline
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you want proof for evoloution?

Then ask a scientist.

Or proof that

a primitive evoloution maybe described in the bible.

I have just proved it.

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#13201 - 10/22/08 09:24 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
Diavolo Offline
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No, I want proof for the evolutionary creationist part.

God created adam from dust, djeez that indeed explains it all, I hardly feel the need for more proof now.

Genesis:

1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


So this explains perfectly why the world is filled with herbivores and carnivores are just a fantasy?

D.

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#13204 - 10/22/08 10:48 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Diavolo]
lux Offline
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"No, I want proof for the evolutionary creationist"

I am sorry, you want me to prove that I believe in both evoloution and creationism?

How do you expect me to do that?

Isnt my word good enough, when I say I believe in both you think I am lying.

prove that you believe in Satanism!

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#13220 - 10/22/08 12:48 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
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 Originally Posted By: lux

Think about it..."from the dust of the earth"... is not the bible giving us a "primitive" evoloution theory?


Well this is always what I used to think. Why couldn't evolution simply have been one of God's mechanisms for bringing about life?

I don't think the world was created intelligently though, due to a lack of evidence other than a general "gut feeling". Also how messed up everything is.

************

Oh and concerning "proving" it, guys, PLEASE don't go down that road and derail the thread. Just put your fists down and accept the fact that Lux believes evolution is driven by an unseen God. It's a petty detail not worth fighting over.


Edited by The Zebu (10/22/08 12:51 PM)
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#13230 - 10/22/08 03:23 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: The Zebu]
blsk Offline
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Didn't evolution come about from single celled organisms? Yet in the bible it states god giving adam dominance over the flying creatures of the heavens and fish of the sea and so on. How is that evolutionary? They already exist.
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#13258 - 10/22/08 05:26 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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but dosnt the fact that all living things having incredably similar DNA point to a common designer?
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#13260 - 10/22/08 05:30 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
lux Offline
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"Didn't evolution come about from single celled organisms? Yet in the bible it states god giving adam dominance over the flying creatures of the heavens and fish of the sea and so on. How is that evolutionary? They already exist."

that could have been gods plan even before the single cell organisim, you have to remember also that everyone of us evolved from a single cell organism called a zygote.

he determined from the outset that the way we would evolve would mean we (adam) would have dominance over the rest of cretion.

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#13261 - 10/22/08 05:30 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
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Jesus christ Lux read your own post.

Think about it..."from the dust of the earth"... is not the bible giving us a "primitive" evoloution theory?

What you just posted has nothing to do with what I pointed out to you.
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#13262 - 10/22/08 05:32 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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Eh, what are you on about?
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#13264 - 10/22/08 05:36 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Anyone that get's their epistemology from the bible is an idiot.
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#13265 - 10/22/08 05:39 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
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Ok, your other post just appeared. Now I know what your talking about.

You are contradicting yourself.

You said he determined from the outset that the way we would evolve would mean we (adam) would have dominance over the rest of cretion.


Yet if I understand you correctly. God created man solely from dust. So what evolution are you talking about?
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#13271 - 10/22/08 05:53 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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So if god spoke to moses telling him of DNA and single celled organisims the people of that time would of understood, "from the dust of the earth" simply conveyed the message, now in our time we understand it better.
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#13275 - 10/22/08 05:59 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
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No Lux. The bible says god took adam from the earth. The bible also says gods word is perfect. Are you suggesting the credibility of that to be flawed by mans interpritation? If so how can you believe the rest to be true?

On that note, what did god intend to insinuate by taking eve from his rib. How is that explained by your theory?


Edited by blsk (10/22/08 06:05 PM)
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#13279 - 10/22/08 06:18 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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god made adam from the earth.

the bible is the word of god, mans interpretation is flawed, the holy spirits is not.

rib, only means taken from the same eveloutionary process

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#13281 - 10/22/08 06:20 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
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Oh come now Lux. Really? Is this what they teach in your church? All that sounds like to me is rationalizations after rationalizations. Really, where do they get this from. lol Also, if god was able to physically write the 10 comandments, why didn't he just write the bible?

Edited by blsk (10/22/08 06:25 PM)
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#13295 - 10/22/08 07:09 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: blsk]
ta2zz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: blsk
if god was able to physically write the 10 comandments, why didn't he just write the bible?

Since god can only write on stone tablets could you imagine the weight of that thing?

In my opinion all these one liners like "what are you on about" should be kept to a minimum...

~T~
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#13297 - 10/22/08 07:13 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: ta2zz]
blsk Offline
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That would be one big-ass book! lol I looove the fact that instead of saying "i don't know" he just doesn't respond. Would that be pride?! Oooooo, Lux you are soooo in trouble with your god!

Edited by blsk (10/22/08 07:13 PM)
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#13299 - 10/22/08 07:34 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
ta2zz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: lux
but dosnt the fact that all living things having incredably similar DNA point to a common designer?

Respect yourself more and use a spell checker if you expect us to take the time to read your banter…

All DNA proves to us at this time is life as we know it (on our planet) needs some form of DNA to exist… Or do we fully understand it yet?… Seeing as all life has DNA and certain things resemble each other such as, rivers, veins, trees, lightning (electricity) all needed in some form to support life… All this points to is either electricity is the bonding factor for life or the rule of following the path of least resistance is naturally a good design… And this design is also most common throughout our solar system… Now if you could point me to the made in china label then I will fight for creationism…

Until then the human eye is one of the worst designs in the animal kingdom… Was god just practicing when he came up with an eye that has a natural blind spot for humans? (his greatest creation) Or did he truly make us in his own less than perfect image? This argument is the only one needed to tumble the creationists belief…

~T~

But not to worry Lux I realize you will try to reason everything out in your head as most Christians do… Just like most Christians think that god can truly heal if you believe enough… Yet when asked about amputees the usual answer is there alive… That’s how god helped them…
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#13305 - 10/22/08 07:58 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: ta2zz]
blsk Offline
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What is funny about their whole "they're alive" thing is that it has absolutly nothing to do with what is presented. What of the ones who didn't want to live or were ready for "god" to take them? What of the ones who lost a limb trying to commit suicide?Why, then, did he make them live? For a grander purpose? Sorta defeats the purpose of free will now doesn't it? What if they prayed for it to be restored as it was their only means of supporting themselves? No point in being saved just to perish due to that unanswered prayer. Foolish minds.
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#13330 - 10/23/08 12:17 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
The Zebu Offline
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Okay Lux, I have another honest question for you.

The Babylonian creation story predates any record of Judaism, as the culture is much older.

Their creation story follows the same basic process as genesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enuma_elish

and their flood myth closely mirrors Noah's ark story (except the god who started the flood is rightfully identified as a pompous asshole)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atra_Hasis

So since all the factual evidence clearly suggests that Hebrew religion was simply an outgrowth of ancient paganism, and that much of the OT is not truly "original", what does that say for the credibility of Judeo-Christian religion?
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#13354 - 10/23/08 07:17 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: The Zebu]
Morgan Offline
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Its kinda sad, and pointless.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

No matter how much we explain things or show or state or prove anything one simple thing remains....

He thinks we are wrong on everything.

Morgan

Next.......
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#13612 - 10/29/08 06:00 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Morgan]
lux Offline
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I dont think your wrong.

More impractical.

Zebu, how about ancient egyptian paganism, the story of horis and set, the religion of mythras etc... Do these things go to disprove Christianity or do they prove Christ is the true revelation of God?

ancient religions are scattered with promises of a god coming down from heaven dying and coming back to life, judiasm is no different except the Jews were the choosen people through whom this would be fullfilled.

I do not believe all religions to be wrong except my own, i believe all religions have within them certain amounts of truth. But that my own is the fullness of truth, because Christ is the fullfilment of the ancient prophecies scattered throughout ancient religions and catholicism is the religion he established.

Christianity was not just for the jews, it was for the gentiles, the pagans of all religions, Christ was calling all humanity to himself, Christianity is a truely universal or "Catholic" religion


Edited by lux (10/29/08 06:04 AM)

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#13623 - 10/29/08 05:16 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Lux, please keep it up. I say this because anyone stupid enough to believe a word you say and be lured off to whatever god forsaken(hurray for puns!) board or group you come from doesn't belong here in the first place.

Here we are rational adults, and from that it follows that we find having imaginary friends to be downright silly.
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#13625 - 10/29/08 05:35 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Dan_Dread]
lux Offline
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so you dont believe in love...eternal love?

That even though we die, that part of us that loved, lives on!

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#13626 - 10/29/08 05:36 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Eternal is one of those nonsense words with no real life context. A filler word for people like you with no real foundation behind your words.
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#13629 - 10/29/08 06:47 PM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
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I think Lux, your done.

No one is leaving, and you are not really doing anything more than preaching at this point, and trying to start arguements.

We don't go to your house and tell you to change, why do you insist on doing this here?

I dont think you will end up banned, but maybe just ignored.

Have a nice life, go help the homeless. Its a more christian thing to do than wasting time online with us.

Morgan
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#13637 - 10/30/08 12:00 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Morgan]
Fist Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
Have a nice life, go help the homeless. Its a more christian thing to do than wasting time online with us.


This is a good point.

Lux, honestly, why are you here? You are not going to convert anyone here. Ostensibly you are to 'learn' about Satanism but you still have not read TSB or any other LHP text. At this point really, you are doing little more than trolling.

And just why are you wasting time here? Again, you are not going to change any one's mind here about anything. Really want to do something 'Christian?' Whenever you feel the need post here - don't. Instead, march your sorry ass down to your local hospital and volunteer some time in the children's burn ward. After all, what would Jesus do?

All the same, Lux, I must ask, what is your highest level of education? Most any Biology 101 class lays out a pretty good case for evolution. In fact, I have yet to encounter the xtian 'scientist' that can argue against evolution at even the most basic academic level.
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#13640 - 10/30/08 04:21 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: Fist]
lux Offline
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why do you presume I argue against evoloution, I have already said i sam a evoloutionary creationist.
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#13643 - 10/30/08 06:48 AM Re: Creationist nonsense [Re: lux]
Diavolo Offline
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Seriously, I don't mind people having a different opinion but when they have, at least put some arguments behind it. You seem to spout nothing but indoctrinated crap and no matter what others say, you twist and shake around and never ever come with something substantial.

Just shut up and go lick some homeless' genitals.

D.

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