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#13086 - 10/21/08 11:45 AM Hypothetical Question
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I was asked this by someone I go to so school with the other day:
"What if heaven and hell were real, you would be going to hell does this bother you?"

My response: In the unlikely event there is a god, I prefer hell. This is because that is where all my friends will be and I would rather be with like minded individuals than stuck in some place with the people whom I despise for all eternity. To quote Johnny Hobo: at least in hell there's rock and roll and there aint no jesus christ. Just wondering what the perspective of the other members on this forum are.
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#13093 - 10/21/08 12:49 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I think that's oversimplifying it, but it's actually an interesting question that deserves an answer. What if the Christian myths about God, Heaven, Hell, and Salvation were all true? I have several interpretations of this question.

1. Christian salvation is something that is supposedly heartfelt and sincere. Regardless of whether or not Christianity is "true", I still think it is a self-ingratiating and unnatural way of thinking. Therefore, since it goes against my core values, I can never be a true Christian no matter how much I put on a veil of false piety- so I would go to hell anyway. Bring it on.

2. Hell brings up images of hellfire and brimstone, but these ideas of fleshly punishment are child's metaphors, as the soul has no body to hurt- most theological-minded people will tell you that hell is really separation from God, and the true "pain" of hell is being cast away from divinity. However, I want nothing to do with the Christian God, as he is a vile and tyrannous character. Furthermore, divinity and sanctity are alien concepts to me. Therefore hell would mean nothing to a person like me. So bring it on.

3. I don't believe in an afterlife, and since I've come to terms with that, I really don't care that my soul will cease to exist once my body turns back into dust. But as a selfish human, I desire the preservation of my ego over all things, so an eternity of anything- even pain- is a welcoming idea. Bring it on.
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#13107 - 10/21/08 01:59 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I think such a 'what if' scenario vastly overcredits their position. This is the same reason I abhor the term 'agnostic'.
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#13130 - 10/21/08 06:33 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
Phaethon Offline
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Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 78
Ive asked myself that question alot when I was younger, and I still occasionally get asked that. I mean, guilt would be a stronger punishment in heaven that suffering is in hell. Besides, im a masochist, id scream in sexual joy as they whip me ;D.

Last time I was asked that I simply said that in hell id be surrounded by my friends. If i did get into heaven, id suffer from guilt of seeing innocent people suffer.
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#13136 - 10/21/08 07:04 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Phaethon]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
But no suffering is allowed in heaven! So everything would be cheerfulness and sunshine and happiness with God and all the angels and saints and good loving people, while your friends and family are all suffering an eternity of unimaginable torture with no possible hope of redemption. ISN'T THAT GREAT!?!?

As far as agnosticism goes, people misuse the term a lot, as if it means they "aren't sure" if there's a god or not, because JESUS FORBID you use the term Atheist. Well technically if you are an agnostic, then you don't believe in gnosis, which means you reject the divinity of Christ and are therefore just as worse as not buying into the existence of God. Huzzah!


Edited by The Zebu (10/21/08 07:05 PM)
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#13139 - 10/21/08 07:29 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Heh

If you read the actual description of 'heaven'(aka new Jerusalem) in all it's fragments (mostly in revelation) you would realize no sane human would ever want to go there!

We are the borg....


Edited by Dan_Dread (10/21/08 07:30 PM)
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#13169 - 10/21/08 10:24 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I think such a 'what if' scenario vastly overcredits their position. This is the same reason I abhor the term 'agnostic'.




Agreed, but I still thought it was an interestingly funny question. The funniest part was the look on his face when I told him my answer.
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#13172 - 10/21/08 10:43 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
What was their reasoning for the FACT that you are going to hell? (I doubt they had any)
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#13175 - 10/21/08 10:57 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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Most likely because I reject that idea that some omnipitent entity impregnated some chick (that is still refered to as a virgin) who gave birth to some dude name jesus who was later crucified and is my only path to "salvation"
That is a way one way ticket as far as they are concerned.
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#13177 - 10/21/08 11:04 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Yes but if you were misinformed or mislead by "gods people" than you will be forgiven. That's kinda the whole idea of the "gods UNDESERVED kindness" thing. If that were not true than that god does not exist anyways making it all a lie. Hypothetically speaking of course.
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#13187 - 10/22/08 04:43 AM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
coelentrate Offline
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Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
Besides that, I think that after one million years there, I'll be quite used to being on fire and won't mind it anymore.
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#13191 - 10/22/08 07:45 AM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Hell baby, there is a huge club and a zillion of babies waiting on me.
Just to torture me they make the babies run faster than me but I can live with that.

D.

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#13193 - 10/22/08 07:56 AM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: coelentrate]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
I think it is presumptious of anyone to say who is going to hell or heaven.

All we know is that those who live within the Catholic faith their salvation is assured, however I personally dont know anyone who lives within the Catholic faith, I could say the pope, but that would only be an assumption.

Then of course, how can we say who is in hell, some say hitler, stalin etc but we are judging these people on their actions. That is wrong in itself. Who knows hitler may have been so disturbed that he could not have done anything but go down that path, perhaps he showed some act of kindness in his life that was more pleaseing to God that many acts of kindness from someone who was not disturbed, we should not judge people on their actions.

Then I hear people on here discussing what heaven and hell will be like, as if they know, Christians do not even try to guess what it is like, all we know is that it is ultimate happiness while hell is ultimate suffering. Funny how someone could say I would rather go to hell because I like to be whipped.... then in hell you would not be whipped because it is hell....it would more likey that you personally would be whipped in heaven, if that is what you need for happiness.

Eternal flames is not like earthly fire, it is an eternal suffering, imagine the suffering that a person feels when they want to commit suicide to end it, imagine something like that but at an unimaginable level slowly getting worse as eternity goes on and on and on and unable to end it... that is more likey to be eternal flames than actual fire.

then we talk of heaven and hell as places, perhaps they are states of mind and not places.


Edited by lux (10/22/08 07:58 AM)

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#13194 - 10/22/08 07:58 AM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: lux]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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 Quote:
Then of course, how can we say who is in hell, some say hitler, stalin etc but we are judging these people on their actions. That is wrong in itself. Who knows hitler may have been so disturbed that he could not have done anything but go down that path, perhaps he showed some act of kindness in his life that was more pleaseing to God that many acts of kindness from someone who was not disturbed, we should not judge people on their actions.


Correct me if I'm wrong but are you now saying Hitler maybe acted like that because god made him that way?

D.

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#13195 - 10/22/08 08:00 AM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Diavolo]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
More likey something in his life, a bit like how the death of alister crowley's dad sent him on his path

Edited by lux (10/22/08 08:01 AM)

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