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#13246 - 10/22/08 04:49 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Diavolo]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
"The answer was "any sincere man" (sincere Xian, sincere Buddhist, sincere Atheist,...)."

"not everyone who says lord, lord will enter the gates of heaven but those who do the will of my father in heaven"

"Don't your fear to have chosen the wrong religion and to fall in the Hell of an other one?"

My final destination is in the hands of God, I am imperfect i can only aspire to live as best i can, I hope for his mercy. But if my eternal state (salvation is not neccesaraly about eternal life) is not in my own hands then what is the point in worrying about it. My motivation to be a christian is not fear but love.

" I will have no rest in raising an Army in Hell and conqueer Heavens"

Satan already tried that!

"If no suffering is allowed in heaven, then how does that account for the pain of knowing your loved ones are in hell?"

Your greatest paradox that disproves heaven and hell assumes 1. that there is going to be people in hell, 2. that we will know they are in hell when we are in heaven.

Everyone is agnostic, I am an agnostic.. I dont know for sure either way, but i have faith in Christian philosophy I see that it is truth, so then I assume that Christian teaching on the after life is truth also... but I am still agnostic, I take it on faith.

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#13247 - 10/22/08 04:51 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Diavolo]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
I'm not sure what specifically you mean by them being a bigger concern than I realize. If these things them develope to be a matter of serious concern I will then step back and say wait a minute what is going on here? I will not continue in a blind, and therefore ignorant, acceptance. Things taken for granted: That car is going to stop at his red light. Drinking this will not kill me. There is proof that such thinking has worked before but blindly accepting it as fact can be disasterous.
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#13248 - 10/22/08 04:54 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Lux, your final destination is not in gods hands. It is in yours. I as an agnostic don't put my faith in anything unassured. That's kinda the point of it. You puting your faith in something is not agnosticism.

-sorry about the double post. I tried to delete it.


Edited by blsk (10/22/08 04:57 PM)
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#13249 - 10/22/08 04:57 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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You accept your own identity for granted I assume. I always did in the past, just like I accepted free will for granted, even if it logically conflict with the fact that we live in a deterministic universe. I believe in them these days but based upon whole different arguments.

Btw, here's a movie from someone explaining why agnosticism isn't necessarily the logical thing.

Agnosticism, the logical conclusion?

D.

Btw Lux: shoo

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#13250 - 10/22/08 05:00 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Diavolo]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Fact-your "free" will is still subject to the laws of physics.
I'll check that movie out right now.

I like what I saw. The crocodile was an excellent example. However I will have to view it again as there is a screaming baby in my background and that makes it hard to think. So lets move on.


Edited by blsk (10/22/08 05:06 PM)
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#13252 - 10/22/08 05:09 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
You put your faith in the man driving when you are a passenger, yet it is not assured he wont crash
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#13269 - 10/22/08 05:50 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: lux]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Agnosticism is christianity with training wheels. In order to be agnostic you must be at least convinced enough of christian mythology to believe it might be true, which is my eyes is just as intellectually weak as saying it is true.
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#13273 - 10/22/08 05:57 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
ON the contrary dan. (by the way nice to have you join us. I enjoy your posts)

I do not believe the Christian mythology as I can prove that god does not exist. I do, however, Keep the posibility open that there is a force we do not understand simply due the the complexity of matter.
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Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#13274 - 10/22/08 05:57 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
agnostisim is the only honest possition unless they have been visited by God
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#13278 - 10/22/08 06:14 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Which god Lux? Your god, Odin, the angel that "inspired" the Book of mormon? Or the god of schitzophrenia?
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#13280 - 10/22/08 06:19 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
lux Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Newcastle UK
the god that is
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#13282 - 10/22/08 06:22 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: lux]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
You cant say you know "him" to be the god that IS. That would not, then, be faith but science.
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#13291 - 10/22/08 07:03 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: lux]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Since nobody else caught this little tidbit of hypocrisy…

First Lux you say…

 Originally Posted By: lux
Then I hear people on here discussing what heaven and hell will be like, as if they know, Christians do not even try to guess what it is like, all we know is that it is ultimate happiness while hell is ultimate suffering.

Which not even a half page later you go on to say…

 Originally Posted By: lux
Eternal flames is not like earthly fire, it is an eternal suffering, imagine the suffering that a person feels when they want to commit suicide to end it, imagine something like that but at an unimaginable level slowly getting worse as eternity goes on and on and on and unable to end it... that is more likey to be eternal flames than actual fire.

I am confused Lux, are you not then a Christian guessing at what heaven and hell will be like?

 Originally Posted By: lux
then we talk of heaven and hell as places, perhaps they are states of mind and not places.

Perhaps this is hell then… Or are you assuming that after death you will think as you do with a flesh and blood brain... Silly...

To the other members of The600club;

You guys willed this one to come back… Talked about him and poof he returns… Is it magic, UFO’s, or something like the collective unconscious at work when this happens?

~T~
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#13292 - 10/22/08 07:03 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: blsk]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
LoL a christian talking about intellectual honesty. That's rich
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#13294 - 10/22/08 07:06 PM Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
And the crowd goes wild!! Good point Tat I didn't catch that, and I was thinking the same thing of his return. Wieeeerrrd.

Edited by blsk (10/22/08 07:07 PM)
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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