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#14790 - 11/21/08 05:44 PM Re: A [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Well it seems we have hit the middle, that part where we find the commonality. I can't disagree with any of that really. Yes, all societies are extremely conditional. Yes states come about through societal evolution, and will continue to do so. Cancer also appeared through evolution;doesn't mean we have to stop fighting it. I also agree with what you said about memetics, the best interest (whatever that is) of the infected mind isn't even a factor.

As for the latin..that's just the name of the logical fallacy I was pointing out.It's easier and just as effective as saying 'the conclusion does not follow from the premises', which it really didn't. It may be latin but it is common vernacular in formal debate.
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#14800 - 11/22/08 05:33 AM Re: A [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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It seems we have come to an agreement indeed.

Of course you don't have to stop fighting what you disagree upon and it is your right to promote the anarchistic meme. If more people had an opinion and fought for it, we might even get somewhere.
Personally I don't think it is a very succesful meme, no matter how good -or not- the endresult might be. If you compare it with religious memes, you see how those - even when being very silly- replicate far more succcesful.

D.

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#14809 - 11/22/08 01:59 PM Re: A [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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I honestly don't expect anything will come out of this in my lifetime. Market Anarchistic ideas are quite unpopular and have very strong memetics directly opposed to them to contend with.But such is the role of the adversary I suppose.What it comes down to is that I enjoy the idea of real freedom, as a concept, and as such I choose to promote it as it feels right for me to do so.

When we as a race are still so primitive that the idea of invisible sky men is still overwhelmingly predominant,despite hundreds of years of solid reason and logic to the contrary being readily available, it is hard to expect great change overnight. However we in the Satanic community(for lack of a better term) tend to think more and carry less frozen preconceptions than the average person, and this is my intended audience.

Take from it what you will. Thank you for the debate, Diavolo
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#14821 - 11/23/08 05:16 AM Re: A [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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A man got to do what a man got to do yeah. At some levels you can't be but a rock and let the waves break on you.

I enjoy real freedom as a concept but prefer to look for it internally, simply because that's the only realistic attainable goal I perceive in these days.

The debate was my pleasure Dan, even when opposing your ideas at some levels, it made me realize some things at others.

That's why we do it I assume.

D.

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#80578 - 09/26/13 11:32 PM Re: Universality principle/Why government sucks. [Re: Dan_Dread]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
If it is wrong for me to go to your house and take you at gun point, why is it ok for a small group of elitists to do it?


The acceptance of this hypocrisy is for the needs of the many vs. the needs of the one.

Even in tribal environments there's a Government. Individual Recognition Society vs. Anonymous Society. The head of the tribe decides what is best for the survival of the whole. An Anarchist mindset would set you an outsider. Happens all the time, even in the closest tight-nit groups. The minute a single individual no longer recognizes the members as having the same interests and/or identity, they're out.

A lot of the time, when people talk about real freedom and real Anarchy what they really mean is Anarcho-Communism. All the benefits of a community effort but for the individual's liberties. In a free-market of Anarchy, any person with a notion to pave a road could start building one, even if it cuts off other roads, or paves one right up to your driveway. Who would stop them? Sure, you could stand in their way but you can't be everywhere at once. Someone else is paving a road across town and they don't give a rat's ass if it cuts you off from where you need to go.


Universality in terms of Rights, is a conundrum. What are Rights anyway but a bunch of privileges you're allowed to have? Property for instance, you don't have Rights to property. Considering the definition of belongings, whom does your life belong to at birth? You or your parents? You are born into this world naked and helpless, co-dependent on care-givers or else perish. Do I own my eggs? Don't they belong to me? Can't I just kill the fruit of my womb if it came from my person? They're a component of me and certainly an attribute of my personhood and yet, the Universality of how they are regarded is as if they are privileged to me like a borrowed basket. By what Authority is the Right to life granted?

Do other species have Rights or do we humans grant them Rights? A study of Behavioral Ecology will show that we apply human concepts to other species. Take insects for instance (ants specifically), we dish out labels and identity pins to them, they too have societies both Anonymous and Individual Recognition! Instead of using Ethnicity, Culture or Locale ants use Hydrocarbons to identify members of their little societies. They kill off the outsiders and maintain their little piece of property, well until some chimpanzee comes along with a twizzle stick digging around in the anthill to have himself a snack.

Will the Ant-police arrest him and put him on trial for murder?

Even if our current societies were completely deconstructed the pattern would just repeat in smaller factions. Governments in the smaller tribes can go off in a direction that doesn't have squat to do with basic survival (Ethics/Morality). Most of the time the governing is for the government's sake.

 Quote:
that small group of people that claims dominion over you, me, and all the land we inhabit.


Inhabit sure, the evolution of our current stasis came from years of trial and error. Just like the White Europeans chased the Natives off the land, we too can be chased off the land, well unless of course the Government grants you Rights to property.
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