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#13692 - 10/31/08 02:39 PM Eternal love
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
When wandering the site once again, something on the front page cought my attention.
 Quote:
Lux...so you dont believe in love...eternal love?...you're an ass.

Being a curious person I began to think. Can one actually believe in eternal love? What is actually "eternal love"?

My vision: Something as "eternal love" is an illusion. I'll explain why so.

Eternal love; an illusion?
Scientifique:
First of all if I aproach the subject "love" from a biological point of view, it is an emotion triggered within our brainpatterns. Our brain emits an image or certain aspects a person should have and wich is by our own "perfect for mating" (for every person this image/aspects differ; proof--> not everybody loves/likes the same type of women/men).

Anyway, when we look around us, our brain will register every single person who crosses our path and it will link it subconscienly to the "image of the perfect mate" in our brain. The more aspects/outward appearance resembles with the aspects/image within our brain, the more we will be attracted towards it. So with this it can be scientifically be proven love or "eternal love" doesn't exist and it is just a mere instinct guiding us.

However this is a brief summary I read the whole explanation in a dutch magazine and since this is an English-spoken forum I doubt anyone here will understand.
For whoever is interested in the science part: http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainbriefings_loveandthebrain

Social/psychological view (My personal one)
(Before I start within this part I'll explain my own point of view based loosley on my toughts, so everything within originates directly from the brain, so don't ask for reference material..)
Why do I not believe in eternal love? The answer is quite simple. In my opinion like I said before it is an illusion created by the brain. I based my ideas from observing the people around me. I saw different couples getting very along together. But however it all seemed all right most of the time it didn't. I observed and noticed that all cried out very loud how much they loved each other and their love will be for eternity. For that part, good luck with it. Several days later they broke up because they were cheating eacht other. For thus far a little story I followed from a safe distance. I will now give the facts why eternal love doesn't exist.

- Into one's eyes it can be you found the ideal partner BUT this can't sometimes come from both sides. As seen the text above, it can purely be based on sexual interaction. Wich may or may not be linked to love.. (Maybe something discussable?)
- Scientifically spoken it only exists as hormones coming from the brain who are affecting your body.
- Talking about time, the sentence "eternal love" cannot exist. Simply because the fact is: we can't live forever one of us should die eventually. And as far as I'm concerend I'm not really willingly to be stuck with the same girl for eternity, how perfect she may be...

For thus far this topic. Now before ending I would like to add something. If you read the first few lines and think I'm talking bovine excrement, I ask you politly to read everything or at least take a look at the given site. I'm trying to start a discussion about what love to ones own perspective actually is. How people define it, how they think about it, etc...
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#13693 - 10/31/08 04:36 PM Re: Eternal love [Re: Dimitri]
AnOpenHand Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 32
Loc: England
I suppose it depends if you believe you have a soul. Despite my beliefs about my flesh I also know I have a soul. Not the sort that will stay as my personality etc. but a sort of energy I guess. When me and my man get married it's a ceremony completely of our own design. As well as rings we're having tattoos, it's so hard to do things that have such absolute importance and that are so deep through the core of your beliefs justice in words so bear with me. We're going to celebrate it like a festival over a week, ending with us taking our vows. Thats the most important aprt of any marriage to me and in our vows we're going to pledge our souls to one another. We'll have our ashes blended together when we die and make a blood pact in life. And I know you'll all probably mock me but I don't care because I have no doubt that we've always been fated to one another. Don't ask me how I just do. We've been through more in four years then most couples I know (I mean literally I know, I know there are many couples who've been through the same and much more too!) do in the span of their relationships.
When I look back at why I stayed with a man who abused me so badly for so long and have walked the path I have, a path that's brought me much pain and torment, that relationship very nearly destroyed me, physically on many occaisons and in everyother way in general, he did this for pleasure too as far as I can tell.
I was told I was incapable of love, I''d make everyman I was ever with treat me like he did. Just to give you an idea of the man he lied about having cancer and brought a stranger home from the pub one night then went upstairs when I went up to see if he was coming down (having left his 16 year old girlfriend downstairs with some drunk strange man) he made me get in bed and when I tried to say this is ridiculous you can't leave a stranger downstairs and go to bed without as much as saying fuck off or good night he threw me on the bed put his hand across my mouth and bit me so hard on the face he drew blood. These are just two very minor examples of the things he did. I was empty and numb and nothing nor noone seemed to be able to stir the slightest feeling in me. Even after I left him and ended up with someone just as bad only more violent. There I had my ribs broke and my skull now has a point on one side from being smashed off walls and floors. Despite all this I never called the police and it would be me who would say sorry.
I know tyou're thinking what the fuck has this got to do with anything. I'm just trying to give you an idea of how the certainty of our unity is possible. They both cheated on me too but I remained the loyal housewife. This was from the age of 16.
My man has had a similar disaster for a life. A alcholic mother who drags you out of bed telling you she hates you (she's done it to me as well!) from childhood and he's spent alot of his life in prison. He fell to heroin and became a local hate figure, a self imposed prisoner in his mothers house as if it rained there the local people would blame my jake. His ex lost their daughter to social services while he was in jail, she was adopted and when given the opportunity to be released early, something that was arranged and took months to get a decision the night before she told the prison she was with someone else and didn't want him there.
We knew eachother through all of this, and it never would have crossed my mind that we'd get together.
But we did and I can't explain it but it was like the world had slipped into focus, all the love we both had lost for so long just grew and grew, and we battled heroin and won, we can spend all our time together four years on and things just get better. I believe in eternal love in the respect of it being like a ritual. Something you will.
He went to prison recently for something that happened a while ago and we'll be aprt for a year. I'm not saying the last 4 years have been all joy. In fact there are times that have just been a new hell. But out of it we've both found ourselves and at the same time throught the same process become penultimately tangled within one another. We could go to the ends of the earth and not find anyone who loves either of us the way that we both do. I think through our lives before we can find or know how someone truly loves us we have to go through all the ways they don't.
Like I say I cannot begin to put into words how deeply we're bonded to one another. The word love seems inadequte somehow. But I honestly believe that we walked such painful a tortourous paths in life because that was way that brought us together, and all our suffering has been made worth it.
We've both been to rock bottom, and it's our sole purpose in life now to better ourselves and love eachother, worship eachtothers bodies and make our love eternal.
I know for facts the way society and this awful comsumer culture is moulding mankind in the west is clouding and distorting love and where it comes from in us. Infidelities are normal, I see shallow and empty relationships all around me. And your point about time, If you think about time as being relative to perspective, and there truly is nothing when you die, then that lifetime had been an eternity, and my Mum and Dad have been together 52 years even once they've died, they'll always be remebered together, so I guess thats a way of things being eternal.
_________________________
ASSHOLES AND ELBOWS YOU KNOW THE DRILL!!!

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#13694 - 10/31/08 05:22 PM Re: Eternal love [Re: Dimitri]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm trying to start a discussion about what love to ones own perspective actually is. How people define it, how they think about it, etc...


I already gave my definition of love and discussed about it in the thread "TSB - The Book of Lucifer - Love & Hate " (see here)

I copy it here for making the reading of this thread more easy :

 Originally Posted By: Fabiano

He is a definition of Love given by Scott Peck and which is to me the best one I ever seen. It reflects my own point of view by defining Love as "The will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth."



This definition is universal. The spiritual growth in the Satanism perspective, is equivalent to the concept of “bettering oneself”.

As love is a choice it does not make sense to me to speak about “eternal love”.

Finally, whatever the definition of love you use; can love exist without a lover? Furthermore, can eternal love exist without an eternal lover?

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