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#14331 - 11/13/08 01:14 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: silverray]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 561
Loc: just visiting
I'll add to this only because I'm a working musician and have strong opinions on the topic...

Every free download of my music may well get a lot of listens, but it does me no good. iTunes has made it so you can now enjoy music through your headphones from the comfort of your living room. iTunes has damn near killed CD sales, damn near killed radio, and has certainly had a drastic effect on those who used to actually leave their homes to see music performed LIVE. I love going to shows and interacting with people. I love getting off on a band who may well be terrible, but is putting 110% into music they wrote. When the music is good, there's a vibe that sweeps through the club or bar and elevates the crowd. It creates euphoria that can't be replicated by listening to your iPod.

My advice: go out and support your local music scene. See a band you know nothing about. Expose yourself to REAL music, not downloaded studio mixes that have been sterilized by over-production and auto-tuning software. Keep it real, raw, and LIVE.

Octavius

(www.myspace.com/grandemachine)
(www.myspace.com/thecrimenovels)
(www.myspace.com/mkamusic)

_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#14339 - 11/13/08 04:33 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Octavius]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Youre such a Luddite, Octavious.
Next thing you will be frowning at amplifiers as well? ;\)

I do enjoy live music, but I also enjoy reproductive music.
Figure they are different set of tools, applied to the same art.
Computers & Internet are, (in my book), stimulating music.
I get to experience composers & bands I would never ever have heard about, and that is a good thing.
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#26669 - 07/02/09 01:18 PM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Woland]
Satans Scrotum Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 49
I buy a lot of DVD's and CD's, but I'm also guilty of piracy too. Usually the things I pirate are old and forgotten and would take forever trying to find at record stores. I used to only use Bittorrent and other torrent clients like uTorrent and such, but recently I only been downloading from Rapidshare. Everything downloads quicker with no sharing and I have no problem finding what I want.

For the people who torrent, I recommend cinemageddon.org! for those that remember the show MonsterVision hosted by Joe Bob Briggs on the TNT network in the early 90's. I recently downloaded most the episodes of that, real treat for those who remember and liked the show.

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#26678 - 07/02/09 02:35 PM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Satans Scrotum]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
I tend to try and buy my music and films as often as possible. There are two reasons for this, the first one being that I tend to appreciate the music I've bought more than the music I've downloaded. I'm not exactly sure why this is the case, perhaps it's the feeling of having "treated yourself" to a CD rather than simply acquired one. The second reason I avoid downloads is because I'm a real technophobe at times, the thought of downloading files just makes me plain uncomfortable.

One of the notable exceptions to this general rule of mine was when I was looking for Tim Skold's music. Having searched Amazon and ebay and finding only £30 second hand albums I decided to risk dowloading his songs. Some of them I took from youtube (after a quick lesson on how to download youtube audio files) and the others I took from http://www.symphonyofnoise.com/binv2/ListenSkold/index.html if anybody is interested (you just have to save the files to your computer and rename them).
I'm honestly not sure about whether or not my method of getting these songs was legal or not. Even if it was illegal I really don't care, as much as I try to abide by the law, £30 for a ten track album is just plain scandalous!

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#26712 - 07/03/09 12:09 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Saligia]
Jester Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I download music but if I like the album enough I will buy it as well. I like to collect albums, if I buy an album I own it, when I download it, I feel like I am borrowing it. Movies I don't download, not for any moral reasons I just like collecting movies. I am not against people who download movies, but I do hate when people whine about not being able to find a good quality pirated copy. If you want to see the movie just go to the theatre. I like going to the theatre. I prefer the smaller independent ones that play foreign and independent films over the megaplex's, even though they are few and far between. I like buying popcorn and sitting in the uncomfortable chairs, I enjoy the whole movie going experience. I have to say though, I prefer going on a slow night, if I am going to fork over the money for a movie I would prefer to watch and listen to the movie and not listen to some jackass talk on his cell or listen to someone chat it up with friends. My rule for going to a movie, sit down and shut the fuck up. \:\)
_________________________
"...And I thought my jokes were bad."

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#26714 - 07/03/09 12:46 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Jester]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I have to agree with Woland here but I'm going to go a step further.

I don't want to have to go out, spend money I don't have, stand around with people I don't know and listen to bands I've never heard of to listen to crappy music that you feel is "real" Octavius because it's no more real than any other music.

I like music, in fact I love music. I spend a great deal of time listening to it, but I will spend a good week or so listening to a CD on, normally illegally downloaded, MP3 format because quite frankly I'm not paying for shit. I do buy CD's but only if they pass my test. I need to enjoy at least half the tracks on the CD, I also need to have listened to it for a week or so and not be bored of it. This means it's worth spending my money on it, and CD's are better quality than MP3's.

No-one wants to waste their money any more. They don't want to buy something and hope they get value for money. They want their product first and maybe, if it's really good, they'll give you some money for it. It's why no-one pays for music or film any more, and certainly why no-one goes to stage shows, concerts and cinemas. I know I look for youtube videos of live shows before I see anyone live, just because if they're no good live I don't want to waste my cash. Remember a cinema ticket costs more than some DVD's now, I'd rather own my films, not watch them once. Same with CD's and concerts.

If I didn't do this I wouldn't buy CD's or DVD's. I don't have a great deal of cash and I would likely spend the cash on food, drink etc. if I couldn't choose carefully what I buy by basically seeing/hearing it before I pay for it.

Hell I even do this with video games. I have a pirated copy of the Diablo games. Why? Because I wanted to try then out and I was offered a set. I played them, I liked them. I had played them before but it was years ago. I've already bought them now, online, and they'll be delivered in about 5 days. Why did I buy something I already have? Because it means I can register the game and play online. It also means I support the company but honestly, I would only do that if it was a company that needed my support and Blizzard isn't one of those.

Basically what I'm saying is pirating is the future, people will find a way of getting what they want because people don't have money any more and want to carefully choose what they buy. The general populous resent large companies and they don't want to pay stupid prices for entertainment, of cause this will slowly dissolve the entertainment industry because no-one would dare tell actors, singers and sports personalities that $1 million per week is an unfair wage. Perhaps if these people where paid something more reasonable entertainment would be a lot cheaper and people wouldn't bother to pirate any more. I know I'd buy a CD or DVD if it was £2-3 in stead of £10-20 because it's only the price of a pint at the pub, it makes it a throw away amount of cash.

...perhaps I've spend a little too much time around communists.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#26754 - 07/03/09 08:59 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Disabuse]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
I have a large collection of "Abandonware", which are games (quite literally) past their "sell-by date".

Mostly old PC DOS games (I use DosBox and other virtual machines), but also Commodore Amiga (WinUAE is a solid emulator, the Unix edition E-UAE [the Egalitarian Ubiquitous Amiga Emulator, lol] is somewhat lacking though - though WinUAE runs well on Wine).

ScummVM is also good, although I do still have legal copies of every LucasArts SCUMM adventure game made (call me a nerd, lol).


Yes, most of these games look like piles of shit in 2009, but there are some little enhancements (such as the hq2x/hq3x/hq4x pixellation-busting graphical filters) which reduce the eyesore component well for many games.

Some old games have also had fan patches which add real 3D acceleration. Notably Doom 1 and 2, Quake (the original GLQuake fucked up the lighting), Frontier: Elite II (and its sequel First Encounters), and possibly many more.


Has anyone gotten into serious legal do-dos for online piracy?
I knew a guy at my university back in the day who got busted for downloading around 10,000 songs on Kazaa over the university's "ResNet" system.
The other students were shitting themselves.

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#26756 - 07/03/09 10:56 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Meq]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I've never known anyone to get into trouble for it, I've only heard of stories and the obligatory friend of a friend of a friend who got arrested. It's never anyone I've known and literally everyone I know pirates stuff. It's not something that can be realistically policed. Everyone can access the internet and practically everyone does. Just look at YouTube, there was an "anti-YouTube" video posted by one popular member (thunderf00t) because he was fed up of the YouTube censorship policies. Because YouTube didn't like his video they removed it and banned him, within 24 hours there were over 50,000 copies of the video all over YouTube and others on other sites, they had no choice but to give in. The people have too much control over the net now, it can't be policed, especially with all the masking programs online, produced free by the hacking and cracking community. I run at least two such programs at all times myself.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#31725 - 11/15/09 01:10 PM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: TornadoCreator]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
I've thought a lot about this subject. I myself pirate quite a bit. The only thing I have bad feelings about is when I'm downloading an album from a band I know isn't making money.

Whether or not people think it's right or wrong for the creators the simple truth is piracy is too big and too easy to ever be stopped. Free music, movies, programs, and games have simply become a standard of the internet. The entertainment and software industries are just going to have to evolve around it and figure out a new way sell.

Even if it's at the expense of these industry and artists (although I'd argue that the industry itself have been the biggest expense and burden to these artists) I can only see free media as a higher standard of life.

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#32371 - 11/29/09 07:59 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: TV is God]
Gutfood Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 3
I do have a tendency to download pretty much everything If I can find it online, games, applications, music, e-books etc. Even my Ipod Touch is jailbroken and has a bunch on cracked applications on it.

However, I do tend to buy games that I have been looking forward to rather than downloading, and as a family most of our music is all bought and paid for. Also, if I can get a piece of software that does the same thing, but is open-source and free, I'll pick that rather than downloading a priced piece of software.

I don't really see much problem in pirating things from massive companies, they're making millions whether or not I download their stuff. But, I do see why people trying to market their products would get pretty pissed off with pirates.

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#32535 - 12/04/09 05:18 PM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: silverray]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
I work in IT, specialising in ati piracy/forensics.
I can honestly say that I donít deal with the theft of music, movies etc, but I do deal in software plagiarism.

Itís an extremely common problem in the IT industry; I myself have worked for a number of companies that use pirated software (ironic as I now work in a field that actively prohibits this).
I understand how it is done, how to avoid detection and the profit margins involved for those that call it a business, but I do STEAL.

Sad as it may sound, I simply cannot abide the inflammatory prices imposed upon such products (remember for a moment the I KNOW the actual price of production/development, in software alone).

I can't honestly in good conscience vow that theft (lets face it, thatís what it is) of music and film is morally expectable, but I can say that I for one lose no sleep over a ripped copy of Vita.


Edited by Room 101 (12/04/09 05:20 PM)
_________________________
"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

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#32552 - 12/05/09 01:58 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Room 101]
Gemini Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
I'm fairly guilty of stealing music - pretty frequently, in fact. Although excuses are like assholes, mine is that much of the music I play out is simply unavailable on vinyl (my preferred format).

I still buy my fair share of music - more than the average consumer, I reckon (I spend, on average, some $200-$350 a month on records and legal MP3 downloads). I consider myself an exception to the "downloading pirated music is stealing" rule.
_________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/onewingedangel

-Gemini

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#32555 - 12/05/09 05:32 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Octavius]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
I admit I frequently download illegal copies of music and movies. The reasons are that if I buy them most of my money isn't going to be spent on the artists self but on the second parties which only leech the artist.

I do not mind going to festivals and small shows if I know that the money spent is going to the artists themselves. I wouldn't even mind paying a few extra euro's if the band/artist raised his price to perform at a certain place.


I should also note that there are certain limits, some bands ask too much money to perform when in fact they aren't even worth it. An artists work (IMO) should be something that was made with and for fun only. Starting to ask money for every crappy note you play is asking for trouble if you aren't talented enough, it's artistic suicide. This, unless you can offort it if you already have a well-established position in the entertainment sector.

As a musician myself (should I also use stand-up comedian for the few shows I did?) I never asked money to perform. The only conditions I had was good working sound material (which most of the time was mine) and free consumption during the act. I had quite some succes but in the end never wanted to achieve a breaktrough. Why didn't I want a breaktrough? I felt happy with the situation, I could do my own thing, decide what I should play or do without some asshole leeching me on the back telling how or what to do. I've never and still not regret that choice.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#32558 - 12/05/09 06:18 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Dimitri]
Gemini Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I admit I frequently download illegal copies of music and movies. The reasons are that if I buy them most of my money isn't going to be spent on the artists self but on the second parties which only leech the artist.

Shit. I forgot about that. Tack that on to my reasoning, as well.

And, sorry for taking it a bit off-topic, but...
 Quote:
I should also note that there are certain limits, some bands ask too much money to perform when in fact they aren't even worth it. An artists work (IMO) should be something that was made with and for fun only. Starting to ask money for every crappy note you play is asking for trouble if you aren't talented enough, it's artistic suicide. This, unless you can offort it if you already have a well-established position in the entertainment sector.

As a musician myself (should I also use stand-up comedian for the few shows I did?) I never asked money to perform. The only conditions I had was good working sound material (which most of the time was mine) and free consumption during the act. I had quite some succes but in the end never wanted to achieve a breaktrough. Why didn't I want a breaktrough? I felt happy with the situation, I could do my own thing, decide what I should play or do without some asshole leeching me on the back telling how or what to do. I've never and still not regret that choice.


I never ask, either. I'm pretty upfront with most venue owners and promoters: I love doing what I do so much, I'll gladly do it for free. I do occasionally add, "if you feel my performance is worthy of payment, after the fact, I'll take whatever you want to throw at me," which usually averages out to a couple of hundred bucks.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/onewingedangel

-Gemini

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#32563 - 12/05/09 11:19 AM Re: The Internet Pirate [Re: Gemini]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
I am certainly guilty of downloading music illegally, my 100GB collection speaks for that. However if I find a band or piece of music I really like or can't find anywhere else, I will usually buy the CD or download the odd track off iTunes. I regard purchasing albums in physical format as something fuelled for me at least more by sentiment, having the knowledge that I own a physical piece of work by an artist or band that I really like. Almost all the music I like is considered underground and ran by very small record labels, so there is a better chance that the artist is receiving their due share of the proceeds too.

Movies however I don't download often, for the reason that I don't watch a lot of them. However I personally don't believe in picking up a DVD at a shop that I have never seen before, due to the risk of not actually liking the movie itself and the result being a waste of my money, therefore by downloading a film and watching it then deleting it, I can decide if I am willing to spend money on a DVD copy. As for the Cinema, it's not just the film that I pay for in my eyes, it's the cinema experience, the good quality, great sound and screen and atmosphere you can only find in a movie theatre.

As for video games, I don't play a lot of them either these days, but generally I buy second hand games for my Xbox 360 and PC, or trade some of my existing ones in that I no longer play.

The only justification I can think of for downloading music illegally is that it is so costly and there is so much of it, but I realise it's not a justification that really stands to scrutiny if you try and apply it to real world objects such as cars. Stealing cars because they are in your mind too costly doesn't really float, if when like me you support capitalism. Although the difference there is, music in digital format is easy to steal, cars less so :P.

However concerning software, I try to stick to freeware or open source, I am willing to pay for sensibly priced software however. Everything I use is either Open Source or available free of charge anyway, so there isn't much of a problem there for me.
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