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#13956 - 11/05/08 10:14 PM Re: Racism [Re: .:Autumn:.]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
Yes. If you were born in america you are american. That is your culture. If you were not born in america but moved here then obviously you didn't like the culture that much. I despise people who want to title themselves as Italian American or African American. Its bullshit. Most of the Italian pride people you meet in america don't even speak any Italian and have never seen there "beloved" country. If all these other places in the world are so nice why are they in america? My grand parents moved here from Germany. I dont go around calling myself German American.

Im sick of people that have some much pride in there culture, yet they still immigrate to america.

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#13965 - 11/06/08 02:45 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Nowadays things are a litte complex, all countries consists of many races and a multitude of cultures and due to it, a lot of -isms become very diverse and in some cases very specific.

If we'd go back in history, you'd notice that culture and race become one -not implying there can only be one culture in one race.

Ethnocentrism, explained as:

1. Sociology. the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture.
2. a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one's own.


is much more obvious at such points in time.

The whole history of mankind is an example of this ethnocentrism and the fact that we are subject to it, or overcome it at some levels doesn't imply it isn't there. Ethnocentrism and it's potentially resulting xenophobism is rooted in the very core of our beings.

Look at religion, where our religion is always more true than that of others and although in some the word superior isn't used, the fact that they have hells and punishement for sinners indicates the visible superiority. Look at Iraq where two seperate sects of Muslism, that have a so similar culture, not to mention race are bashing each others heads in because they quarrel about who of two idiots more then a thousand years ago was the correct idiot. Ethnocentrism again.

I can give you hundreds of examples from the start of time up to the French Revolution, WWs, Cold Wars or present day where our being civilized does not hinder us from being subject to the same ancient ethnocentrism and act upon it. I can give you examples based upon color, looks or behavior. Genocide as an example is as old as mankind.

Nowadays most cultures grew complex and are a crossbreed of different religions, races and habits but at the same time still contains the same ethnocentrism. We still view upon others from our own cultural perspective, we still think we are superior because the other prays to an invisible god, thinks laziness is the best approach in life, acts like a criminal or treats people in a certain way. We are still superior because the other thinks or acts different and although, like in some religions the word superior itself might be hidden, we also have our hell and punishment for them. We just call them differently.

We have to be tolerant and open and relativistic about things, that's what society forces upon us but at the same moment, it only applies to everything that agrees with that status quo and agrees with the limitations society defines. The moment you question this very tolerance, the openess or relativism, you cross a line, you pass the taboo.

Racism is a belief, just like Satanism is, and it can range, just like Satanism again, from an approach that could have been defined by an intellectual monkey up to something spiritual and abstract that might have more values in common with any of you than you care to admit.

You might disagree with specific modern definitions of -isms but don't anyone tell me he isn't ethnocentric. If you aren't, get the fuck out of Satanism as fast as you can, it's a required condition, Satanism can not exist without it.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (11/06/08 03:34 AM)

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#13974 - 11/06/08 12:12 PM Re: Racism [Re: Diavolo]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Someone said something earlier about cats and rats as a way to destroy my "animals are suspicious of all things foreign" statement. I'm not talking about the food chain. If you put a steak in front of me, I'll eat it. If you put a rat in front of a cat, the cat will eat. But if you put a cat in a room with an animal that is foreign to the cat, you will have problems.

Siamese and persians will mate, but lions and tigers will not (without scientific-medical intervention).

When my oldest little brother was VERY young, we lived in a basically all white community. We never talked about race at all because it was not an issue. The first time my brother saw a black man he was about two. He freaked out. This was not something we taught him, it was instinctual.

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#13984 - 11/06/08 03:39 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I talked about cats and rats. I didn't really use them as an example of ethnocentric behavior more as an example of how we have no problems identifying instinct in animals but start making excuses or get into denial when certain behavior can be identified in humans too.

Your little bros experience is a good example and we all know the typical examples of kids that point out to a disabled or whatever visually different person and shout something that embarrasses the shit out of their parents. Most consider it acceptable because they are kids and didn't learn how to behave correctly when confronted with something atypical. It shows that the control comes from nurture while the initial reaction is instinctive.

D.

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#13989 - 11/06/08 08:41 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
“Yes. If you were born in america you are american. That is your culture.”


American culture is actually made up of several cultures. This is due to the fact that America itself is made up of a variety people from different countries. All of whom bring their culture with them. This foreign culture usually ends up becoming assimilated into and recognized as American culture.

In fact, as a nation of immigrants from the 19th to the 21st century, the United States has been a recipient as much as an exporter of global culture. Indeed, the influence of immigrants on the United States explains why its culture has been so popular for so long in so many places. American culture has spread throughout the world because it has incorporated foreign styles and ideas. What Americans have done more brilliantly than their competitors overseas is repackage the cultural products we receive from abroad and then retransmit them to the rest of the planet. That is why a global mass culture has come to be identified, however simplistically, with the United States.

Americans, after all, did not invent fast food, amusement parks, or the movies. Before the Big Mac, there were fish and chips. Before Disneyland, there was Copenhagen's Tivoli Gardens (which Walt Disney used as a prototype for his first theme park in Anaheim, California, a model later re-exported to Tokyo and Paris). And in the first two decades of the 20th century, the two largest exporters of movies around the world were France and Italy.


“ If you were not born in america but moved here then obviously you didn't like the culture that much.”


I hate to burst your bubble Butterz, but this is entirely inaccurate. The pilgrims who immigrated over here from England did not do it because they didn’t like the culture. They came over here because they didn’t like their government. (I know that is a gross over-simplification. I just don’t feel like giving a history lesson right now)

The Mexicans don’t come here out of a dislike for their culture. They come here because their country is a shithole. Many of them bring their culture with the. Ever heard of a siesta or Cinco De Mayo? Those certainly weren’t inventions of Americans. Saint Patrick’s Day is certainly part of American culture, but that wasn’t an American invention either. I could keep going but I think you get my point.


“ I despise people who want to title themselves as Italian American or African American. Its bullshit. Most of the Italian pride people you meet in America don't even speak any Italian and have never seen there "beloved" country.”


I have never met any Italian Pride people, so I can’t agree with you there; and I certainly won’t just take your word for it. I know a few Irish Pride guys, they have never been to Ireland and speak very little Gaelic. Should you try to tell these guys that their pride in being of Irish decent is bullshit, however; you would most likely stomped into nothing but a blood smear on the ground. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. I can’t figure out why you would think that there is.


“If all these other places in the world are so nice why are they in America?”


A lot of their countries aren’t all that nice, that is why they come here. Many immigrate here to get a better job, better education, or even just for a change in scenery. It has very little to do with how “nice” their country is.


“My grand parents moved here from Germany. I dont go around calling myself German American.”


That is because you were born here in the U.S., making you an American. Your grand-parents would have been the ones considered German Americans.


“Im sick of people that have some much pride in there culture, yet they still immigrate to America”


I have already addressed this enough times in this post I am not going to do it again. I will say this though: Get used to it. This is a country with many different cultures, and despite how you may feel you are not going to be able to stop people from having pride in their respective cultures. If it bothers you that much, then move to a different country.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#14003 - 11/07/08 12:46 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:

That is because you were born here in the U.S., making you an American. Your grand-parents would have been the ones considered German Americans.



Then why do we say "African American"? I know the guy who works third shift at my local beer store was not born in Africa.

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#14004 - 11/07/08 01:06 AM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
thats because we must call them by whatever name they desire, at any given time, and then when the terminology becomes understood by all, they must change it quickly, thus, ensuring a new generation of insensitive (i.e. confused) white people to hate.

my grandma still calls them coloreds, even though she watches oprah and knows better. which kicks ASS.

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#14006 - 11/07/08 02:04 AM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I don't know. Why do you say African Americans? I usually say black. Just like I refer to white people as white and mexicans as mexican. etc. More to the point, that was supposed to be a smart-assed comment directed at Butterz.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#14015 - 11/07/08 05:16 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
"I don't know. Why do you say African Americans? I usually say black. Just like I refer to white people as white and mexicans as mexican"

On that basis shouldn't you refer to mexicans as browns?

Now on with this pride. people such as mexicans with MEXICO PRIDE on their cars is wrong. If mexico is something to be proud of they should go live there. but no they wanna live here becouse its better. there fore they should have american pride.

Culture: America has its own culture. Hell we even have our own language. they may call it english but it sounds nothing like what ones from england speak. By having our own american culture there is no need for terms like Irish American. You dont have to be irish to drink green beer on St.patty's day. Just as no matter what if any religion you are you got a week off from school for christmas etc.. Thats the american culture.

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#14017 - 11/07/08 05:32 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I live in a country that fits in your pocket and even we don't have an overall culture, besides maybe disliking authority, trying to screw taxes and prefering Belgian Fries.
Yes you there, not FRENCH fries, that comes from 'French-speaking people's fries' which Americans picked up in Belgium during WW1. Down here, people speak French too, you know, that alien concept of being multilingual.

Now, I am born here, as are my parents, their parents and so on. I'm a real native Belgian.
15 minutes walking from here is another town and we have linguistic differences in our language. Not too many decades ago, during nights out groups from this town would fight with groups from that town because they were from the other town and there was pride to be living in one or the other.
If you'd go even 15 minutes further, you'll encounter more linguistic differences up to of the other side of this small country and you'd notice a whole different language. I'm talking about dialects, the real native tongue.

Now when generalizing a bit, we on this side of the country, speaking Flemish, dislike the ones on the other side, speaking what we call Walon or something resembling French. Even within our Flemish part, the part where I live doesn't consider itself Flemish and dislikes them. Oh and we hardly care or remember the German speaking part. Culturally we here, and I'm generalizing again, dislike our neighbouring countries, the French, English, Germans and especially the Dutch, which we have the actual language in common with.
So, where is OUR global culture and can you please explain me what we should have pride in and what not because this is a rather confusing place to be.

D.

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#14032 - 11/07/08 03:00 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You obviously didn't grasp what I was saying. I suggest going back and carefully reading it again as your reply made no sense.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#14040 - 11/07/08 05:36 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Marilyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 45
I am not racist.
I think it is pointless to hate someone just because of their race.
but, one thing that really does grip my shit so to say, is all the bollocks in the UK these days.
for e.g, you can have a pure black people's work union and it is seen as ok, but if you have a white workers union you are called a RACIST GROUP!
or another thing that i read, i muslim car insurance, now what the f*ck is that all about?
now if u was to turn someone down from being able to get insured because they were muslim, you would make front page on the express.

i have to say i agree with the BNP in the UK.
I dont live in the UK but i have family their, so it does not directly effect me here in germany,
but i do notice the same type of trend starting here too.
one thing Germany did was ban head scarfs in schools, i remember the UK wanting to do the same, but as alway them shitty human right groups got involved and the stopped the idea.

now like i read from "Butterz" - My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.

i can see were that would fit in with todays society.

i could go on for ages,,, but people would tend to just fall a sleep then..

but, anyone else see what i mean if ok for one but not the other?

-Marilyn
_________________________
When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.

HS!

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#14054 - 11/08/08 03:30 AM Re: Racism [Re: Marilyn]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't completely agree on the headscarves. Yes, if you do a governmental job, you don't need to shove your religion in anyone's face. Seperation there should be. But outside that?

Maybe you guys don't remember but down here, half of the housewives wore a headscarf in the old days when going outside.

And in schools, where headscarves seem to be a problem, they have no problem with a nun teaching kids dressed as a penguin.

I find this whole headscarf debate a bit of a waste of time. Sure, for identity reasons you don't want people to be dressed as a peppermill but what are we bothered about?
A piece of textile on people's head. Half of the bikers I know wears a headscarf and seeing ubergoths or Slash-like metalheads sure makes me wonder if there is so much difference in what we are getting pissed about.

D.

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#14058 - 11/08/08 12:57 PM Re: Racism [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
I am far across the ocean from the headscarf debate, and here in los angeles I dont see very many of them, so I have yet to be personally offended by one.
is it true that the most common baby name in brussels is now mohamed, followed by amin, etc?
it is probably true in france, where muslims enjoy burning so many cars when they get angry, and yet the doors remain open.

it appears, from my poor perception of the issue, that powers that be in your european countries are prohibiting headscarves in schools in order to diffuse racial tension, which seems rather absurd at this point. too little too late.


here in america the sand people seldom dress the part, instead preferring to buy BMW's, cocaine, gold chains, and prada shoes to go with their jogging suits. kind of like Borat with money.

oooh thats racist..sorry humanists!!

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#14059 - 11/08/08 01:43 PM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
In nyc, the men dress like everyone else. the women still wear the outfits, head scarfs, and some with just eyeslits. The girls who wear the headscarfs on the train, they wear them with jeans and regular clothes. Nobody really care what they wear.

The only thing that bothers me is 10 steps behind shit, most of the losers doing that usually have a chick with a baby carriage following them.

They stare at people, but not as bad as the Hasidic jews. In general, I can't stand those men.

I also hate all those people who need baths. If your food comes through your pores, you need to bathe more often.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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