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#13880 - 11/04/08 10:52 PM Racism
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
What are your views on racism? My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are. I say dont hate an illegal immigrant for being mexican but hate him for being illegal immigrant and not having the motivation to go about immigrating the legal way. Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still? Most everyone here has family ties to an illegal immigrant unless you're Native American. Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black? Well if racism and stereo-types are all true.. Im white, live in the south, in a trailer park, I must be a redneck in the KKK right?
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#13894 - 11/05/08 05:17 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
What are your views on racism?
i think racism kicks ass, and it worked great for china and japan.

My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.
i do hate people because of race, AND for who they are. in fact i hate everyone until proven innocent.

Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still?
yes, they are still bad mexicans because they either a. believed george bush and signed up to protect our "way of life", therefore they are stupid, or B. signed up to get citizenship, in which case they are slightly more clever, but still too fucking lazy to fill out the papers, pay the fees, wait their turns, take the tests, and become citizens like MY GRANDPARENTS HAD TO DO before some traitor in the white house opened the floodgates for his corporate cronies.

Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black?
a black man can become educated, obviously, look at your new president. and you spelled educated wrong.

Well if racism and stereo-types are all true..
are anti-racist stereotypes just as true as the racist stereotypes?


Im white, live in the south, in a trailer park, I must be a redneck in the KKK right?

no you are just a target for tornadoes.

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#13907 - 11/05/08 09:21 AM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
What are your views on racism?


Multiculturalism worked great for Native Americans, didn't it?

I believe it is instinctual in humans - as well as all other animals - to be suspicious and even hateful towards anything foreign. Of course, this is something that can be trained out of humans easier than animals, but that doesn't change the fact that if has to be trained out.

Also, anyone can see that in communities, even though people may not make a conscious decision to do so, they almost always arrange themselves into neighborhoods by race or ethnicity. If you put a map of this town in front of me I can point out the black neighborhoods, the mexican neighborhoods, asian, white, etc. People like to avoid the unfamiliar and surround themselves with the familiar. We feel safer that way.

 Quote:
My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.


Good for you. My thoughts are that all you people screaming tolerance should exercise some tolerance towards those who choose not to be so tolerant, lest you find yourself being a hypocrite. I'm not a fan of multiculturalism, faggotry, or anything else that I find personally deviant. It's my personal choice. And I have just as much right to my personal choice/opinion as whites who date blacks and men who suck dick. I also find it a little strange that a self-proclaimed satanist of all people has difficulty understanding that I can think and believe whatever in the hell I want. I'm not out burning crosses or even giving my Sociology instructor the stink-eye, so I don't think my opinion warrants that big a fuss.

Yes, I would give a tit to see all illegal immigrants executed on sight. They have already proven that they have no respect for this country by refusing to go about things the proper way. If they have the right to do what they have done, then I should have the right to break into my neighbor's house and take/do whatever I want. It's macro versus micro.

It's not like its difficult to get into this country legally. We have some of the most lax immigration laws in the world.

 Quote:
Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still?


I suppose that depends on the circumstances. Someone who chooses to display their fealty to our country by joining our military is a completely different person than one who has been caught living here for six months and takes military over deportation. How long did they serve?

 Quote:
Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black?


It is if you ask the black man. How many reports have been released in which blacks score lower on all test scores? And I've even read articles trying to say that they are at a biological disadvantage because it's not safe in Africa to let your baby crawl around on the floor/ground, thus not allowing said baby to form the necessary neuropathways that the pattern of crawling creates. If they want to be equal to whites, they need to stop making excuses. Fuck poverty, that doesn't stop anyone who doesn't want to be stopped. Instead of whining and crying for affirmative action, why aren't blacks out there following the advice of Malcolm X (a racial separatist) and forming their own companies and whatnot? No one respects a bum.

 Quote:
Most everyone here has family ties to an illegal immigrant


Says whom?

 Quote:
I must be a redneck in the KKK right?


Actually, the vast majority of racists/racialists are fairly affluent. Even the Grand Dragon of the local KKK owns his own business. I know college professors, business owners, lawyers, etc who share the views you reject. Racism's not just for skinheads anymore, it seems.

If it makes you feel any better, I temper my personal opinions with the belief that everyone else has the right to make their own opinion as well. And unless they are infringing on my beliefs or trying to shove their lifestyle into my face, I don't care if they are fucking vegetables, worshiping the spaghetti monster, and sacrificing their own offspring.

I guess that makes me more tolerant than you.

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#13923 - 11/05/08 04:15 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Butterz Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
I have to say that there are some very intresting views. I would like to clear up that I am not some sort of tree hugging love everybody person. As far as the mexicans in the military they served 3 years and all have re-enlisted for another 3. My point on the mexicans is by them joining, allowing immigrants to fight for there own freedom reduces the chance of draft coming back.
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#13924 - 11/05/08 04:53 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
If you're scared just say you're scared. No professional soldier wants to see a draft. 'We' are always trying to make the organization more professional. The last thing 'we' want are a bunch of people who do not want to be there.

Of course, Obama and Company may just try to re-institute the draft. Nothing would destroy our professional Army faster than filling the ranks with draftees.
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#13926 - 11/05/08 05:04 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Racism is really pointless. I judge people on their actual merits, not for what colour their skin is. Same goes for nationality. If they've worked hard to move to this country, then good for them, and I respect them for doing so. If people work hard for what they want, and respect other people for their merits, then I say they should be respected themselves.

There is no "perfect race" of any kind, for perfection is impossible to achieve, and "perfect" is really just another word for personal preference.
.
.. sorry about that. I was going off on a tangent. Disregard that and just pay attention to the first paragraph. All I have to say on the matter.
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#13929 - 11/05/08 05:23 PM Re: Racism [Re: Fist]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
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Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: Fist
If you're scared just say you're scared. No professional soldier wants to see a draft. 'We' are always trying to make the organization more professional. The last thing 'we' want are a bunch of people who do not want to be there.

Of course, Obama and Company may just try to re-institute the draft. Nothing would destroy our professional Army faster than filling the ranks with draftees.


a little off-topic, but I would really like some insight on this.

why would a draft be on the table?
and why would it destroy the military?
thanks

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#13932 - 11/05/08 07:20 PM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I believe that there are plenty of good reasons to hate a person. The color of their skin, their religion or their sexual preference isn't a valid excuse to me. That is why I personally believe racism springs forth from ignorance as well as a variety of other factors. These factors can include but are not limited to: Negative personal experience(s) with someone from another race, geographical location, ones upbringing etc.

It is worth mentioning that racism is not exclusive to white people. There are people from all races who hold those same views. Even Malcom X ( as cerulean pointed out) was a racial seperatist.

If other people want to be racist, that is fine. I'm not going to try to infringe on their right to think like that. It is when people use violence to express those views that I have a problem with. The same can be said about any belief; from religion to taste in music.
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#13934 - 11/05/08 07:33 PM Re: Racism [Re: DistroyA]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Happy to see a new thread created on racism as I was going to react on some posts in the ONA thread addressing racism. They were a little bit off-topic, so good to have this thread.


I agree with Diavolo that there is a kind a anti-racism taboo. And on this I disagree. This subject should be discussed as freely as any other one.

I do not consider myself as racist. So I'm surprised to read that we're all racists because it's in our genes. Nothing convinced me yet...

On the Cats & Rats example from Diavolo:
Yes cats instinctively predate rats. This is not racism, it's the food chain, the competition between species (not races).

Now if I put some Siamese cats with Persian ones will they naturally segregate based on their race? I would like to see...

So cats eat rats, this is innate as homosexuality. But what about racism? I think it's acquired rather than innate.

About the wolves example from Nemesis, I understand the example is about albinos individuals which are rejected. May I point out that the albinos wolf is of the same race as the others. He's not of a different race. So the example is just irrelevant!

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Not wanting to hire one because you prefer working with white people isn't exactly nice (or legal if you admit to it), but it's understandable.
"Understandable"? Many crimes are not nice, illegal and understandable...

No definition of racism was given up to now. I think this caused some confusion in the posts from the ONA thread.

So let's put a definition (first short one Google found - fine with me):

Racism: An ideology based on the idea that humans can be separated into distinct racial groups and that these groups can be ranked on a hierarchy of intelligence, ability, morality.

According to this definition, racism is not innate but acquired as being an ideology.

If you have an other definition, feel free to give it, I think it will help catching your point.

There was also a slippage from "racism" to "ethnocentrism". How this later is defined, what's the exact link with racism?

Some confusion also when mixing all sorts of discrimination with racism.

Regarding the Old Lady example from Bacchae.
I would say she's racist (cause she fear more blacks than whites) and bigot (that's why she'll refrain -possibly unconsciously- her desire of "doing bad thing to them")

About child 'naturally" segregating themselves, where goes the asian kid adopted by white parent when he was still an infant?

About Quiz from Fist

 Quote:
1. For the sake of argument let's say you were in prison. In the cafeteria there is a table full of White Power guys and a table full of Black gang bangers. What table would you sit at?


Well, I assume in this context the White Power guys and the Black Gang bangers are two gangs. The blacks hate the white and vice-versa. They probably set that as a gang rule. So, (I'm white) of course, if I have to choose I'll go with the white. Not because I'm racist, just because I'm not stupid !!!


 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
My thoughts are that all you people screaming tolerance should exercise some tolerance towards those who choose not to be so tolerant, lest you find yourself being a hypocrite.


I'm not tolerant towards those who choose not to be so tolerant. Not hypocrite, but "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".



Edited by Fabiano (11/05/08 07:35 PM)

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#13936 - 11/05/08 07:45 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I would like to add another perspective to this. Where I live, there is a LARGE proportion of east indians. By far more than there are whites. They are mostly a bunch of ignorant fucks that do anything they can to circumvent due process to bring more of their ilk into the country. They smell really bad, and are generally ignorant and selfish. (in the bad way)

It would be really easy to just hate them all because they all share a common race.

But is the race itself the cause of the behavior?

I would say probably not. It's the culture in which they were brought up that sucks. The values they take for granted as being correct. The sikh religion that they follow. To them it's just normal to make their wives and children walk 10 steps behind them, because they were raised to believe women are lesser people.

This could also be applied to blacks, mexicans , etc. They all come from a certain type of culture that a lot of people raised in our culture find reprehensible.

Whether or not being of a certain race in and of itself predisposes people to given 'problematic' cultures really isn't important.
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#13939 - 11/05/08 08:07 PM Re: Racism [Re: Fabiano]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano

I'm not tolerant towards those who choose not to be so tolerant. Not hypocrite, but "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".


Well that's just silly. How can you say you are not tolerant of anything (without being a hypocrite) and still claim you are tolerant. The word, when used in this context means that you accept the beliefs of others.

Are you tolerant of christians? Muslims? Pedophiles? I think that any rational person will see that "tolerance" is just a bullshit term when you try to apply it as a general label for yourself. One cannot call themselves "tolerant" and argue ANYONE'S beliefs.

I'll be honest. I'm intolerant of a lot of things. Why should I feel bad about that? Like they say in Roe v. Wade: It's my choice. (I know they didn't really say that, so don't waste your keystrokes pointing that out).

As far as "eye for eye" goes, I don't see what that has to do with tolerance at all. "Eye for eye" refers to a person's willingness to avenge wrongs done to themselves and their near 'n' dear.

Ethnocentrism refers to a person or group who believes that their race (ethnicity) is superiour and all others are by default inferiour. I think there is a difference between racism and ethnocentrism. I also believe there is a difference between racism, separatism, and racialism.

When you see a bunch of mexicans driving around with "brown pride" stickered onto their cars, that's technically racism. Black Panthers and Black Pride are both racism, as is (technically) calling me a honky, cracker, etc.

Once again, I don't have to be tolerant of a damn thing. If you want to be a raging homo, have a blast. Keep it out of my face and my kids' faces, though. Because that shit don't fly with me. And so long as the minorities keep to their neighborhoods, I promise to keep to mine. Black culture, asian culture, mexican culture...none of them agree with me. So if it makes you feel better, pretend I don't want to live near them because I don't want to hear their music, smell their food, or buy an alarm system for home and car.

How's that?

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#13940 - 11/05/08 08:09 PM Re: Racism [Re: Dan_Dread]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


But is the race itself the cause of the behavior?



The culture is the cause of their behaviour and their race is the fastest and easiest way to determine what their culture is.

So perhaps it's "culturism" we're arguing about.

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#13942 - 11/05/08 08:16 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, culture tends to be a subset of race. But using the word and concept of 'race' generally makes people close their mind like a trap and commence spouting the politically correct anti racist propaganda we have all had shoved down our collective throats since the end of WW2.
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#13944 - 11/05/08 08:27 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I never claimed I was tolerant on eveything !

I'll not enter a ping-pong posts exchange on this. Let's say you don't like other culture and I've a more curious attitude on that. I agree, it's our respective choices.

I work with Indians. They're in suit, don't stink, are clever, and sometimes they do better job than some Belgians. We probably have different background, explaining our differences.

But again, as Dan already pointed it out, we're talking about cultures and the background influence is in favor of an acquired behavior more than an innate one.

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#13949 - 11/05/08 09:19 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
Culture does offer more grounds for hate. If any race tries to taint peoples way of life by craming thier own culture down our throats that is more than enough reason to hate. A thought i had on this racism and culturism is, black history month? Is it right to preach this in schools? Does it stop there or will it continue to where every month is about the culture of another race? I am tolerant of any race as long as they are not trying to force thier culture or religion onto me or my children. That said just because I am tolerant of them doesnt mean I respect them or want them as a friend.

As far as mexicans with their brown pride, if mexico is so great go back and have all the pride you want there.

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#13956 - 11/05/08 10:14 PM Re: Racism [Re: .:Autumn:.]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
Yes. If you were born in america you are american. That is your culture. If you were not born in america but moved here then obviously you didn't like the culture that much. I despise people who want to title themselves as Italian American or African American. Its bullshit. Most of the Italian pride people you meet in america don't even speak any Italian and have never seen there "beloved" country. If all these other places in the world are so nice why are they in america? My grand parents moved here from Germany. I dont go around calling myself German American.

Im sick of people that have some much pride in there culture, yet they still immigrate to america.

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#13965 - 11/06/08 02:45 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Nowadays things are a litte complex, all countries consists of many races and a multitude of cultures and due to it, a lot of -isms become very diverse and in some cases very specific.

If we'd go back in history, you'd notice that culture and race become one -not implying there can only be one culture in one race.

Ethnocentrism, explained as:

1. Sociology. the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture.
2. a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one's own.


is much more obvious at such points in time.

The whole history of mankind is an example of this ethnocentrism and the fact that we are subject to it, or overcome it at some levels doesn't imply it isn't there. Ethnocentrism and it's potentially resulting xenophobism is rooted in the very core of our beings.

Look at religion, where our religion is always more true than that of others and although in some the word superior isn't used, the fact that they have hells and punishement for sinners indicates the visible superiority. Look at Iraq where two seperate sects of Muslism, that have a so similar culture, not to mention race are bashing each others heads in because they quarrel about who of two idiots more then a thousand years ago was the correct idiot. Ethnocentrism again.

I can give you hundreds of examples from the start of time up to the French Revolution, WWs, Cold Wars or present day where our being civilized does not hinder us from being subject to the same ancient ethnocentrism and act upon it. I can give you examples based upon color, looks or behavior. Genocide as an example is as old as mankind.

Nowadays most cultures grew complex and are a crossbreed of different religions, races and habits but at the same time still contains the same ethnocentrism. We still view upon others from our own cultural perspective, we still think we are superior because the other prays to an invisible god, thinks laziness is the best approach in life, acts like a criminal or treats people in a certain way. We are still superior because the other thinks or acts different and although, like in some religions the word superior itself might be hidden, we also have our hell and punishment for them. We just call them differently.

We have to be tolerant and open and relativistic about things, that's what society forces upon us but at the same moment, it only applies to everything that agrees with that status quo and agrees with the limitations society defines. The moment you question this very tolerance, the openess or relativism, you cross a line, you pass the taboo.

Racism is a belief, just like Satanism is, and it can range, just like Satanism again, from an approach that could have been defined by an intellectual monkey up to something spiritual and abstract that might have more values in common with any of you than you care to admit.

You might disagree with specific modern definitions of -isms but don't anyone tell me he isn't ethnocentric. If you aren't, get the fuck out of Satanism as fast as you can, it's a required condition, Satanism can not exist without it.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (11/06/08 03:34 AM)

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#13974 - 11/06/08 12:12 PM Re: Racism [Re: Diavolo]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Someone said something earlier about cats and rats as a way to destroy my "animals are suspicious of all things foreign" statement. I'm not talking about the food chain. If you put a steak in front of me, I'll eat it. If you put a rat in front of a cat, the cat will eat. But if you put a cat in a room with an animal that is foreign to the cat, you will have problems.

Siamese and persians will mate, but lions and tigers will not (without scientific-medical intervention).

When my oldest little brother was VERY young, we lived in a basically all white community. We never talked about race at all because it was not an issue. The first time my brother saw a black man he was about two. He freaked out. This was not something we taught him, it was instinctual.

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#13984 - 11/06/08 03:39 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I talked about cats and rats. I didn't really use them as an example of ethnocentric behavior more as an example of how we have no problems identifying instinct in animals but start making excuses or get into denial when certain behavior can be identified in humans too.

Your little bros experience is a good example and we all know the typical examples of kids that point out to a disabled or whatever visually different person and shout something that embarrasses the shit out of their parents. Most consider it acceptable because they are kids and didn't learn how to behave correctly when confronted with something atypical. It shows that the control comes from nurture while the initial reaction is instinctive.

D.

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#13989 - 11/06/08 08:41 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
“Yes. If you were born in america you are american. That is your culture.”


American culture is actually made up of several cultures. This is due to the fact that America itself is made up of a variety people from different countries. All of whom bring their culture with them. This foreign culture usually ends up becoming assimilated into and recognized as American culture.

In fact, as a nation of immigrants from the 19th to the 21st century, the United States has been a recipient as much as an exporter of global culture. Indeed, the influence of immigrants on the United States explains why its culture has been so popular for so long in so many places. American culture has spread throughout the world because it has incorporated foreign styles and ideas. What Americans have done more brilliantly than their competitors overseas is repackage the cultural products we receive from abroad and then retransmit them to the rest of the planet. That is why a global mass culture has come to be identified, however simplistically, with the United States.

Americans, after all, did not invent fast food, amusement parks, or the movies. Before the Big Mac, there were fish and chips. Before Disneyland, there was Copenhagen's Tivoli Gardens (which Walt Disney used as a prototype for his first theme park in Anaheim, California, a model later re-exported to Tokyo and Paris). And in the first two decades of the 20th century, the two largest exporters of movies around the world were France and Italy.


“ If you were not born in america but moved here then obviously you didn't like the culture that much.”


I hate to burst your bubble Butterz, but this is entirely inaccurate. The pilgrims who immigrated over here from England did not do it because they didn’t like the culture. They came over here because they didn’t like their government. (I know that is a gross over-simplification. I just don’t feel like giving a history lesson right now)

The Mexicans don’t come here out of a dislike for their culture. They come here because their country is a shithole. Many of them bring their culture with the. Ever heard of a siesta or Cinco De Mayo? Those certainly weren’t inventions of Americans. Saint Patrick’s Day is certainly part of American culture, but that wasn’t an American invention either. I could keep going but I think you get my point.


“ I despise people who want to title themselves as Italian American or African American. Its bullshit. Most of the Italian pride people you meet in America don't even speak any Italian and have never seen there "beloved" country.”


I have never met any Italian Pride people, so I can’t agree with you there; and I certainly won’t just take your word for it. I know a few Irish Pride guys, they have never been to Ireland and speak very little Gaelic. Should you try to tell these guys that their pride in being of Irish decent is bullshit, however; you would most likely stomped into nothing but a blood smear on the ground. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. I can’t figure out why you would think that there is.


“If all these other places in the world are so nice why are they in America?”


A lot of their countries aren’t all that nice, that is why they come here. Many immigrate here to get a better job, better education, or even just for a change in scenery. It has very little to do with how “nice” their country is.


“My grand parents moved here from Germany. I dont go around calling myself German American.”


That is because you were born here in the U.S., making you an American. Your grand-parents would have been the ones considered German Americans.


“Im sick of people that have some much pride in there culture, yet they still immigrate to America”


I have already addressed this enough times in this post I am not going to do it again. I will say this though: Get used to it. This is a country with many different cultures, and despite how you may feel you are not going to be able to stop people from having pride in their respective cultures. If it bothers you that much, then move to a different country.
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#14003 - 11/07/08 12:46 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:

That is because you were born here in the U.S., making you an American. Your grand-parents would have been the ones considered German Americans.



Then why do we say "African American"? I know the guy who works third shift at my local beer store was not born in Africa.

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#14004 - 11/07/08 01:06 AM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
thats because we must call them by whatever name they desire, at any given time, and then when the terminology becomes understood by all, they must change it quickly, thus, ensuring a new generation of insensitive (i.e. confused) white people to hate.

my grandma still calls them coloreds, even though she watches oprah and knows better. which kicks ASS.

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#14006 - 11/07/08 02:04 AM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I don't know. Why do you say African Americans? I usually say black. Just like I refer to white people as white and mexicans as mexican. etc. More to the point, that was supposed to be a smart-assed comment directed at Butterz.
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#14015 - 11/07/08 05:16 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
"I don't know. Why do you say African Americans? I usually say black. Just like I refer to white people as white and mexicans as mexican"

On that basis shouldn't you refer to mexicans as browns?

Now on with this pride. people such as mexicans with MEXICO PRIDE on their cars is wrong. If mexico is something to be proud of they should go live there. but no they wanna live here becouse its better. there fore they should have american pride.

Culture: America has its own culture. Hell we even have our own language. they may call it english but it sounds nothing like what ones from england speak. By having our own american culture there is no need for terms like Irish American. You dont have to be irish to drink green beer on St.patty's day. Just as no matter what if any religion you are you got a week off from school for christmas etc.. Thats the american culture.

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#14017 - 11/07/08 05:32 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I live in a country that fits in your pocket and even we don't have an overall culture, besides maybe disliking authority, trying to screw taxes and prefering Belgian Fries.
Yes you there, not FRENCH fries, that comes from 'French-speaking people's fries' which Americans picked up in Belgium during WW1. Down here, people speak French too, you know, that alien concept of being multilingual.

Now, I am born here, as are my parents, their parents and so on. I'm a real native Belgian.
15 minutes walking from here is another town and we have linguistic differences in our language. Not too many decades ago, during nights out groups from this town would fight with groups from that town because they were from the other town and there was pride to be living in one or the other.
If you'd go even 15 minutes further, you'll encounter more linguistic differences up to of the other side of this small country and you'd notice a whole different language. I'm talking about dialects, the real native tongue.

Now when generalizing a bit, we on this side of the country, speaking Flemish, dislike the ones on the other side, speaking what we call Walon or something resembling French. Even within our Flemish part, the part where I live doesn't consider itself Flemish and dislikes them. Oh and we hardly care or remember the German speaking part. Culturally we here, and I'm generalizing again, dislike our neighbouring countries, the French, English, Germans and especially the Dutch, which we have the actual language in common with.
So, where is OUR global culture and can you please explain me what we should have pride in and what not because this is a rather confusing place to be.

D.

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#14032 - 11/07/08 03:00 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You obviously didn't grasp what I was saying. I suggest going back and carefully reading it again as your reply made no sense.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#14040 - 11/07/08 05:36 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Marilyn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 45
I am not racist.
I think it is pointless to hate someone just because of their race.
but, one thing that really does grip my shit so to say, is all the bollocks in the UK these days.
for e.g, you can have a pure black people's work union and it is seen as ok, but if you have a white workers union you are called a RACIST GROUP!
or another thing that i read, i muslim car insurance, now what the f*ck is that all about?
now if u was to turn someone down from being able to get insured because they were muslim, you would make front page on the express.

i have to say i agree with the BNP in the UK.
I dont live in the UK but i have family their, so it does not directly effect me here in germany,
but i do notice the same type of trend starting here too.
one thing Germany did was ban head scarfs in schools, i remember the UK wanting to do the same, but as alway them shitty human right groups got involved and the stopped the idea.

now like i read from "Butterz" - My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.

i can see were that would fit in with todays society.

i could go on for ages,,, but people would tend to just fall a sleep then..

but, anyone else see what i mean if ok for one but not the other?

-Marilyn
_________________________
When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.

HS!

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#14054 - 11/08/08 03:30 AM Re: Racism [Re: Marilyn]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't completely agree on the headscarves. Yes, if you do a governmental job, you don't need to shove your religion in anyone's face. Seperation there should be. But outside that?

Maybe you guys don't remember but down here, half of the housewives wore a headscarf in the old days when going outside.

And in schools, where headscarves seem to be a problem, they have no problem with a nun teaching kids dressed as a penguin.

I find this whole headscarf debate a bit of a waste of time. Sure, for identity reasons you don't want people to be dressed as a peppermill but what are we bothered about?
A piece of textile on people's head. Half of the bikers I know wears a headscarf and seeing ubergoths or Slash-like metalheads sure makes me wonder if there is so much difference in what we are getting pissed about.

D.

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#14058 - 11/08/08 12:57 PM Re: Racism [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
I am far across the ocean from the headscarf debate, and here in los angeles I dont see very many of them, so I have yet to be personally offended by one.
is it true that the most common baby name in brussels is now mohamed, followed by amin, etc?
it is probably true in france, where muslims enjoy burning so many cars when they get angry, and yet the doors remain open.

it appears, from my poor perception of the issue, that powers that be in your european countries are prohibiting headscarves in schools in order to diffuse racial tension, which seems rather absurd at this point. too little too late.


here in america the sand people seldom dress the part, instead preferring to buy BMW's, cocaine, gold chains, and prada shoes to go with their jogging suits. kind of like Borat with money.

oooh thats racist..sorry humanists!!

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#14059 - 11/08/08 01:43 PM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
In nyc, the men dress like everyone else. the women still wear the outfits, head scarfs, and some with just eyeslits. The girls who wear the headscarfs on the train, they wear them with jeans and regular clothes. Nobody really care what they wear.

The only thing that bothers me is 10 steps behind shit, most of the losers doing that usually have a chick with a baby carriage following them.

They stare at people, but not as bad as the Hasidic jews. In general, I can't stand those men.

I also hate all those people who need baths. If your food comes through your pores, you need to bathe more often.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#14062 - 11/08/08 03:20 PM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I checked the statistics, not the lastest ones mind you, and Mohamed is indeed the number one on the list in the Brussels area but overall in Belgium, it's 28 or so. Nothing to worry about if you ask me.
At a time, the Dutch names Jan and Kees were so much in use in your place that you still have the remnant Yankees named after it. In a worst case scenario, they'll call us Mohamins in a couple of centuries. I can't be bothered too much.

I think the headscarf theme is more an issue because we are carebears. Most interpret the scarves as a symbol of oppression and have big problems with that. Rather funny when you have an SM figure nailed to a cross on display throughout society.

I can't say I have ever been bothered by muslims or whomever. The ones I know or knew were rather decent.
Most of my trouble has been with whities.

D.

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#14186 - 11/11/08 08:46 AM Re: Racism [Re: Diavolo]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Racist, Schmacist...

I prefer to call it culturalism.
Silly really, how the primitive urges of "us & them" seems to bounce back, especially in times of economical depression.

Cultural polarization is still the new loud.
And have been so for as long as written communication can tell.
Is there pride in succumbing to suche base material?
I think not...

My personal views are those of hyper-individualism.
I detest the culture I was/am brought up in.
I collect small trinkets of wisdom from all cultures.
Civilization is much like art, 95% bullshit and 5% true value.

How can I possibly be a hyper-individualist and at the same time be a cultural bigot?
Sorry man; no can do...
An asshole is an asshole, black, white, brown etc.
But unlike many of you, I try to be positive in my journey through life.
I call it "Realistic Optimism"!

Bitterness eats the soul...

I would like to point out that; IMNSHO, racism or culturalism or ethnocentrism or whatever, borders on Socialism.
And that is one socio-political view I simply cannot stand.
(Let me point out that the US, much like China, is a socialist community in extreme.)

A guy once tried to sell me a socialist newspaper...
I decined his colportation politely and said; No thanks, I am an Individualist!
He gave me a puzzled look and replied; One does not exclude the other?
I said; Of course it does...


Edited by Woland (11/11/08 08:49 AM)
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#14458 - 11/15/08 10:55 AM Re: Racism [Re: Woland]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Personally there is nothing wrong with racism. I myself am not a rascist, however I do view it as a thing that helps our society go 'round. I say this because most people need a way to vent out their own problems. It is far much simpler to blame them on others in this case it be a group of people. This helps out society because people find their niche in it. Some people think it makes them important to fight such things, others it makes feel better about themselves to hate a group of people in order to forget their problems. I need to go for now I have gaurd but I will finish this thought later tonight.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#14989 - 11/28/08 03:26 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Jaguar Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OR, Multnomah
If you serve our country via military, you are hence a valued member of our country. To me that is my value. Fist may not share the same respect but I have great respect for fist's values since he has shown them to me as a Satanists. Fist is anti-government to the core. I don't know about the rest of you guys or gals. I am not anti-government but I respect people who are.

I believe if you serve our country in the military, you are an American and deserve the right to be called one if you do..


In other words, I respect Fist and I respect people that serve our military, if that made any sense. I suck at typing sometimes.
My log in name is Pillsburydilldough, hence the silly image, since jaguar doesn't make a bit a since.
Cheers!


Edited by Jaguar (11/28/08 03:33 AM)
_________________________
Learn From the Past,
Provide for the future,
Live in the present.

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#15024 - 11/28/08 02:48 PM Re: Racism [Re: Jaguar]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
I believe if you serve our country in the military, you are an American and deserve the right to be called one if you do..

Being trained to kill people makes you proud of being an American? The world really is at his end...

Don't start nagging about "Joining the military is protecting our glorious nation.." and the rest of that crap. The army is indeed there to defend the country, but with weapons against other people. And I wouldn't be proud of "serving a country" who goes at war for economical reasons. It is a well-known fact here in Europe that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is all about oil.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15096 - 11/29/08 09:44 AM Re: Racism [Re: Jaguar]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
If you serve our country via military, you are hence a valued member of our country.


What the fuck is that suppose to mean?

I am a soldier because it suits me. I am violent and generally anti-social. I like to fight and I enjoy killing in the context that it satisfies my divine sense of justice. Is that wrong? I might as well make a living at it. Most of military life is some flavor of tedium. There are very few true warrior (those who live for war) in the military. Most would be just at home working at the DMV or some other worthless govt job.

As long as they send the check on the 1st and the 15th I will keep coming to work and fighting YOUR wars.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#15099 - 11/29/08 11:36 AM Re: Racism [Re: Dimitri]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
 Quote:
And I wouldn't be proud of "serving a country" who goes at war for economical reasons. It is a well-known fact here in Europe that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is all about oil.


Afghanistan was a major training ground and a safe haven for individuals who attacked the United States.

Iraq, is a mess, and many if not most Americans, including myself, are clueless as to why we are really there.
I suspect that it was a major screw up by those in power, and instead of admitting it as such, they are attempting to convince us, that we are there for a good reason.

As for fighting those wars for economic reasons; The United States's economy is about as bad as it has ever been, with the exception of the "great depression" area.

Both wars have cost us Billions of dollars, that we could have well used here. The price of gasoline has never been so high. So I'm at a loss, as to how anyone can say, that these wars are for economic reasons.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#15100 - 11/29/08 12:30 PM Re: Racism [Re: Asmedious]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
1)There is only 1 group of persons who attacked the US. And from who came the idea it was a safe place for them to hide? From what I received from the media, the US military almost attacked whole villages for reasons as "hiding the attackers". These statements weren't even founded. Just thin air, I'd almost say it was an american way for revenge because they lost on that surface a couple of years ago.

2)
 Quote:
Both wars have cost us Billions of dollars, that we could have well used here. The price of gasoline has never been so high. So I'm at a loss, as to how anyone can say, that these wars are for economic reasons.
Quite simple solution to this part. Think long-term. Afghanistan is one of the countries close to Russia. Russia has enormous oil-reserves still hidden beneath it's surface. Once they start drilling they will become mightier then the arabs. They will transport their oil to the whole world. If Afghanistan is a friend/under US government oil-transportations are much cheaper. US will have Russia enclosed on 2 sides wich can make you guys economy much better.
And stop complaining about high oil prizes in the US. You may come to Belgium and start filling your car here. You'll pay much more here then back in the US.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15101 - 11/29/08 12:49 PM Re: Racism [Re: Asmedious]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
War has always been good for the economy in that it stimulates the populace into consuming more.

As far as the reasons for being in the "wars" it is really quite simple. We are in Afghanistan because of the attacks on the WTC buildings. The situation in Iraq, while being a little more complicated is still pretty easy to explain:

After 9/11 Americans were pissed off and they wanted to see some brown people die. It mattered not if they were actually involved in the attacks on the WTC buildings. Bush had is sights set on Iraq as soon as he entered office. 9/11 simply became the perfect pretense for W's personal vendetta against the man who at one time tried to have his dad assassinated.

George Bush promised to capture Osama Bin Laden dead or alive. After a while of bombing and raids on various houses and caves it was becoming more and more clear that Osama wasn't going to be found very easily. Americans we're growing more and more impatient,and W's approval rates started to slip.

Saddam Hussien was an easy target because the military knew where to find him, he was a brutal dictator and it would be easy to label him a terrorist/supporter of terrorists. The only problem was not being able to go into Iraq without first rallying the support for it. Not very many Americans understand the fact Saddam had no ties to Al Qaeda. Infact he he made it quite difficult for terrorist cells to function in Iraq. He liked having total control and didn't want any dissent amongst those he governed. That information wasn't told Americans. What we were told was that he was harboring terrorists and had nuclear weapons.

After Desert Storm the Iraqi military infrastructure was literally crippled. Not only did Iraq not have nuclear weapons they didn't have the capability of making them. Even if they had, they definitely didn't have necessary delivery system to launch an attack on American soil. This is also information that wasn't told to Americans. None of that mattered because the fear of nuclear annihilation is an easy one to prey on. Despite overwhelming dissaproval for starting this "war", or police action as it should be called, military operations began in Iraq as well.

Many say that this war is all about oil. That is an easy conclusion to reach, and while not totally untrue that is merely the tip of the ice berg. Control of the oil is reserves in definitely something W is after over there, but there is more to it. Finally, this war is also about finishing what W's daddy started and should have finished a long time ago.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15104 - 11/29/08 01:13 PM Re: Racism [Re: Fist]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
As long as they send the check on the 1st and the 15th I will keep coming to work and fighting YOUR wars.


Finally a person who shares my exact sentiments on this topic.

I was going to leave his comments about my being proud to be an American shit alone but what the hell...

Why does it make me a valued member of this country? I despise most of the things our country does as of now. I joined the Army for the simple fact of what Fist stated. What irritates me is being clapped for in airports and being told thank you for serving our country. I constantly find my self thinking "I'm not serving our country, I am serving me. My country doesn't give a damn if I die I am expendable, and so are they."

_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#15105 - 11/29/08 01:22 PM Re: Racism [Re: Ringmaster]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: ringmaster
 Quote:
As long as they send the check on the 1st and the 15th I will keep coming to work and fighting YOUR wars.
What irritates me is being clapped for in airports and being told thank you for serving our country.


Sure as hell beats having people spit on you and throw garbage like they did when we came back from Vietnam, knowing that there was a flight commander who had given us orders to walk to the processing area and not respond. Believe me, if it had been possible, most of us would have taken out a few of our fellow countrymen and calmly boarded our flights home.

Sorry... I'm off topic.


Edited by Jake999 (11/29/08 01:23 PM)
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#15140 - 11/29/08 10:58 PM Re: Racism [Re: Jake999]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
me old pappy was in the 'Nam, and Ive heard similar things from him more times than I can remember. this instilled in me a deep and well founded hatred of hippies at an early age.
they were the forerunners of the all powerful politically correct fake altruists.

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#15165 - 11/30/08 12:47 PM Re: Racism [Re: Jake999]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Don't get me wrong, being appreciated is a good feeling of satisfaction. On the other hand though there does come a time where I would like to sleep on a flight and a person wants to tell me about how their son or daughter wasn't allowed to join or wants to when they get older. I got no problem with people saying thank you when I'm not eating or just walking to catch a flight, smoking, or stuff like that.

When I was talking about the clapping I was talking about the lady at the ticket counter saying things like "We have a special guest with us... We are going to start boarding as soon as he comes on the plane." That is the annoying shit I'm talking about I guess I should have been more clear.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#15302 - 12/01/08 09:30 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Phaethon Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 78
Racism just does seem like another instinct. A natural fear of whats different. It's your choice whether or not to let it affect you. It had benefits and downside.
_________________________
My God & I are one & the same,
We have the same face we have the same name.

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#15347 - 12/02/08 06:05 PM Re: Racism [Re: Phaethon]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
Everyones a little racist. Everyone's a little bigoted. Everyone's more culturalist. People dislike things different from themselves.

Manners might develop in one place for reasons that don't exist somewhere else. If you stand face to face with me 6 inches away, I'll think you're being agressive, not friendly, but not all cultures think that. I see people from China do all kinds of irritating things.

I think the big reason why nanny states try to enforce political correctness is to answer those who don't like confrontation or awkwardness. Why should a satanist deny themself this instinct? Just know when to keep your mouth shut.

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#15372 - 12/02/08 11:56 PM Re: Racism [Re: coelentrate]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"Everyones a little racist."

Speak for yourself. I judge people by their actions and the measure of their character, not by the color of their skin. I have had friends and enemies of every race. The reason I liked or disliked them had nothing to do with what race/religion/sexual preference they were.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15384 - 12/03/08 06:33 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
Sure, you're like a lot of people with a little intelligence or at least education, and your brain wins when making a judgement.

On a first impression basis, people like people that are similar.

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#15400 - 12/03/08 12:54 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
"Everyones a little racist."

Speak for yourself. I judge people by their actions and the measure of their character, not by the color of their skin. I have had friends and enemies of every race. The reason I liked or disliked them had nothing to do with what race/religion/sexual preference they were.

That part made me laugh quite hard you know.
It is true, everyone is a bit racist deep within. I'm not saying you are judging the whole time on skin/religion or sexual preferences. But I'm quite sure you had some moments within your life when you were thinking "What a stupid asian/black/indian/white trash/hispanic/... that guy/girl is". This also is a form of racism. Or even I find it's hard to believe you never made or laughed with a little racist joke.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15403 - 12/03/08 01:21 PM Re: Racism [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"But I'm quite sure you had some moments within your life when you were thinking "What a stupid asian/black/indian/white trash/hispanic/... that guy/girl is"."

Nope. There are stupid people. Period.

"Or even I find it's hard to believe you never made or laughed with a little racist joke."

Of course I have. Who hasn't? A joke is exactly that though. Racism (in a nutshell) means hating someone and feeling that they are inferior because of their race. I laugh and make all sorts of jokes. Using that thought process; anyone who makes or laughs at dead baby jokes is a baby murderer. You have no idea who I am, or what I believe. As such you would do well to not make assumptions.

"Sure, you're like a lot of people with a little intelligence or at least education, and your brain wins when making a judgement."

I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say there.

"On a first impression basis, people like people that are similar."

There are a lot of ways to be similar. I am heterosexual, so are a lot of other people. That doesn't mean I am automatically going to like someone I have just met because we share a sexual preference. I have tattoos, so do a lot of other people. That doesn't mean I am automatically like someone I have just met because we both have tattoos. In fact, I have a genuine dislike for most people until they give me a reason to feel otherwise.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15411 - 12/03/08 02:49 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
Yes, there are stupid people.
And no, I refuse to believe you never had 1 slight racistic experience/feeling in you life. Btw, you are using a shortened modified version of racism. Racism is not "hate based on someone outherskin colour or his etnic identity.".
The real definition actually is: "judging on someone's etnic identity and/or skin". Using the real definition the perspective changes a lot and racism in reality becomes much larger then you may think.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15428 - 12/03/08 05:34 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
You never moved to the other side of the street when a group of urban youths were coming towards you from the other direction? Never got a skip in your heartbeat when a black man in a skull cap and droopy drawers got on the elevator with you? Avoided the "bad" section of town after dark? Rolled up your windows and locked the doors when stopped at an intersection where a group of 20 hispanics teens with red bandanas were standing on the street corner? Never thought the swarthy skinned suspect on your local news might actually be innocent?
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#15434 - 12/03/08 06:07 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say there.


Well, when given a choice, you're generally going to prefer people that are more similar to you on first impression. I don't think I can put it more plainly.

Do you have a point to make that wasn't addressed?


Edited by coelentrate (12/03/08 06:13 PM)

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#15439 - 12/03/08 07:38 PM Re: Racism [Re: fakepropht]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"You never moved to the other side of the street when a group of urban youths were coming towards you from the other direction? Never got a skip in your heartbeat when a black man in a skull cap and droopy drawers got on the elevator with you? Avoided the "bad" section of town after dark? Rolled up your windows and locked the doors when stopped at an intersection where a group of 20 hispanics teens with red bandanas were standing on the street corner?"

No, I have never done any of those things.

"Well, when given a choice, you're generally going to prefer people that are more similar to you on first impression. I don't think I can put it more plainly"

Had you actually read what I wrote you would have seen that I adressed that belief already.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15457 - 12/04/08 12:55 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Right, because Oregon is such a diverse state. I grew up in that area. When I was in high school we had exactly 0 black students and 1 hispanic. By means of an exchange program. According to the latest US Census, Oregon ranks 43rd in the nation for diversity. 87% of the population is white. 1.7% of the population is black. 3.5% is some other race. Meanwhile the area I live in is a steaming melting pot. I live in what is called the DC Metro area. 55% of our population is black, my county ranks 3rd for latino population. We recently enacted some of the toughest legislation in the US to crack down on illegal aliens living here. So, how many non white persons do you interact with on a daily basis? Count them on one hand? Have you ever gone to a fast food restaurant, and had your order totally fucked up because no one working there speaks english? Ever had the pleasure of living in an apartment building sharing a dwelling with 20 adults that come and go at all hours of the day? Getting by on 2 hours of sleep from the constant noise. Do you have street signs printed in both English and Spanish? Ever stepped into a grocery store to do the shopping for the family and realized you can't understand half the products labeling? Step out of the bubble that is the Northwest and into someplace like DC, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, or Texas and tell me how much love you have for your fellow man.
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#15458 - 12/04/08 01:12 AM Re: Racism [Re: fakepropht]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
dont forget new york too.....

hell, you can vote in at least 5 languages

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#15463 - 12/04/08 03:07 AM Re: Racism [Re: fakepropht]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
“Right, because Oregon is such a diverse state.“

I never claimed to be from a diverse state.(Although I technically am) I was simply giving my opinion on the topic at hand.

“I grew up in that area. When I was in high school we had exactly 0 black students and 1 hispanic. By means of an exchange program.”

That is all well and good, but, if I remember correctly; you are in your 40’s. Times have changed since you were in school in Oregon. During my school years here I have had interactions with several Hispanics and several black people. As well as several members of other races. The students brought to my schools via the exchange program were from places such as: Russia, Germany, China, Japan, The Czech Republic, Puerto Rico and Kenya. Even right now at the community college I go to I encounter people of a different race, every day.

I had interactions with members of a different race before that as well. I was born in Oakland, California. I lived all over California, but my last place of residence before moving to Oregon was Fresno. Over the last few years I have lived in Las Vegas, Glendale, Hollywood, Venice Beach, and San Francisco. If you have been to, or know anything about the places I mentioned; you would know they are all also a “steaming melting pot.”

“According to the latest US Census, Oregon ranks 43rd in the nation for diversity. 87% of the population is white. 1.7% of the population is black. 3.5% is some other race. Meanwhile the area I live in is a steaming melting pot. I live in what is called the DC Metro area. 55% of our population is black, my county ranks 3rd for latino population.”

I really don’t care about those statistics. I am sure they are true, but that does nothing to alter my own personal experiences/beliefs.

“We recently enacted some of the toughest legislation in the US to crack down on illegal aliens living here.”

There was also some tough legislation enacted designed to crack down on illegal aliens and their employment passed in the town I live in just recently. http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=122650525520008200

“So, how many non white persons do you interact with on a daily basis? Count them on one hand?”

As I have already stated: I interact with several non white persons on daily basis. I deal with so many it would be impossible to count them on one hand. Unless I spontaneously grew several more fingers on one of my hands.

“ Have you ever gone to a fast food restaurant, and had your order totally fucked up because no one working there speaks english?”

Yes I have. There is a place here in Saint Helens called Muchos Gracias. It is a Mexican fast food restaurant owned and operated by Mexicans. They have messed my order a few times, but not enough to make me hate all Mexicans. When I lived in Glendale and Hollywood I worked for a Jack in the Box. I was the only white person that worked there. I saw quite a few orders get messed up by the Mexicans that work there, but that wasn’t enough to make me hate all Mexicans either.

“Ever had the pleasure of living in an apartment building sharing a dwelling with 20 adults that come and go at all hours of the day? Getting by on 2 hours of sleep from the constant noise.”

I have lived in an apartment building with well over 20 adults that come and go all hours of the day. I was one of those people. If when you say: “sharing a dwelling with 20 adults” you mean that you and 20 other people shared one apartment; then no I haven’t.

“ Do you have street signs printed in both English and Spanish? Ever stepped into a grocery store to do the shopping for the family and realized you can't understand half the products labeling?”

Where I currently live, no I don’t. As I have already stated above, I have lived in places where such things were a factor. None of those caused me to be racist.

“Step out of the bubble that is the Northwest and into someplace like DC, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, or Texas and tell me how much love you have for your fellow man.”

I have already stated above I have stepped “out of the bubble that is the Northwest”. I have not been to any of the states/districts that you mentioned. However, I am not as un-experienced as you like to pretend I am. Nor do I ever pretend to “love” my fellow man. As I stated a few posts ago: I generally dislike all people until they give me reason not to. Their race/sexual preference/ religion etc. is not even a factor.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15467 - 12/04/08 05:32 AM Re: Racism [Re: fakepropht]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
I can side with you on this because I've lived on both sides of this coin. I grew up in a small town in the Great Plains - we had very few black people. When I moved to Detroit at 17, my initial reaction was "There're black people living on my street - I must be in the bad part of town!" Ha! A few years later, I was living in St. Louis, waaaay down in THE ghetto. I was the ONLY white person I ever saw outside my household. When I bought shampoo, I had to clean an inch of dust off the bottle because no one ever bought white people shampoo in that neighborhood.
Later I moved to Houston. White people are a minority there. Now I'm in a very tiny town in Ohio, where if you see a black person at the store you wonder if they're visiting from Dayton. Moving around changes your outlook. In my opinion, you can't understand the difference in attitude toward race between those who live in a diverse area and those who don't if you've never experienced both.
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WWAD?

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#15474 - 12/04/08 08:13 AM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Picunnus
A few years later, I was living in St. Louis, waaaay down in THE ghetto. I was the ONLY white person I ever saw outside my household.


Yep. I know of what you speak! I'm from E.ST LOUIS, IL. St. Louis was where we hoped to someday "move up to" is we were ever that fortunate!
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#15475 - 12/04/08 08:16 AM Re: Racism [Re: Jake999]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
Yes, I know all about E. St. Louis. As bad as my neighborhood was, no one I knew wanted to go across the river - unless for crack, but why do that when you can get it on any street corner in your own 'hood?

Crack. Sheesh.
_________________________
WWAD?

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#15489 - 12/04/08 05:30 PM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I moved from St. Louis a year ago. I'd lived there 6 years. I lived in the nicest part, but stray anywhere outside of this tiny region...what a shithole. I wish I knew what could be done about it.
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#15490 - 12/04/08 05:32 PM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I moved from St. Louis a year ago. I'd lived there 6 years. I lived in the nicest part, but stray anywhere outside of this tiny region...what a shithole. I wish I knew what could be done about it.
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#15494 - 12/04/08 07:13 PM Re: Racism [Re: coelentrate]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Nuclear urban renewal comes to mind. If it wouldn't leave all of the rats and roaches homeless, it would have been done by now.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#15504 - 12/04/08 09:06 PM Re: Racism [Re: coelentrate]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I have also existed on both sides of the coin. I used to live for years on a small island in the southern part of the Georgia Strait. There was precisely 0 ethnic people, aside from Leonard the local town drunk (an indian). At that point I really didn't think one way or the other about how race relates to things.

When I was 19 I moved to the city.Now I don't know how many of you have been to Vancouver, but it is one of the most ethnically diverse places you will ever see. Where I live, in Surrey, I am probably one of the only white people for miles, and I live in a pretty dense residential area. Over time, my attitudes certainly changed.

I noticed that members of certain cultures (invariably of the same race) all had distinct ways they behaved and believed.

People of different cultural backgrounds than you are just that, different. It is only natural that I should develop opinions about these differences, and many of them I find distasteful. Especially the east indian sikh culture, the black rap subculture, and the 'azn' superiorist attitude that exists here.

What I find ridiculously naive is when people pretend there are no differences, and that all people are the same. That race/culture doesn't matter. That is just PC garbage, not worth the amount of time it takes to read or hear.
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#15518 - 12/05/08 07:37 AM Re: Racism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Dan. There are differences between races and cultures - of course there are! Anyone who disagrees is a FUCKING MORON. There's nothing you can do about it - it happens when any group is separated from another for a period of time. It's somewhat like when you leave your home town for several years. When you go back, there are things that developed with your friends that you missed - jokes you don't get and new traditions you missed. The longer the separation, the more different you become. It's not CAUSED by being a different skin color - it's a social thing. But it exists.

No black, indian, native american, asian, mexican, or even fucking canadian I've ever been friendly with got pissed with me for asking about their culture. I don't pretend they're not different - I ask them what it's like to be different. They know they're not the same as you, just as I know I'll NEVER have curly jewish hair. If you pretend you don't see it, it's like pretending you don't see THEM.
_________________________
WWAD?

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#15636 - 12/06/08 06:58 PM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Picunnus
They know they're not the same as you, just as I know I'll NEVER have curly jewish hair.


Do Jews have curly hair?
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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#15639 - 12/06/08 08:58 PM Re: Racism [Re: Woland]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
Sigh.
I knew I'd get a ping on that one.
Are you seriously asking? Of course they don't all have curly hair. But I ain't never gonna have me no Gene Wilder white afro!!
:P
_________________________
WWAD?

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#15657 - 12/07/08 12:31 AM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
Phaethon Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 78
I usually have a Jew-fro, but that's besides the point.


I think culture-ist is better than being racist. If I a bunch of thug wiggers being loud and bothering people standing next to a black person being very civil, I'd trust the black guy more. But if everyone is dressed and acting the same, I'd most likely trust the whites more.
Its racism
its there
its natural
Animals have been known to be "racist" to each other, like horses shunning another horse with a coat color they aren't used to. And I am no more than an elevated self conscious animal.
_________________________
My God & I are one & the same,
We have the same face we have the same name.

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#15676 - 12/07/08 07:30 AM Re: Racism [Re: Phaethon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"Animals have been known to be "racist" to each other, like horses shunning another horse with a coat color they aren't used to. And I am no more than an elevated self conscious animal."

Dogs have been known to eat feces as well as vomit. If I were to do that would you consider it to be "natural"? After all, you are "no more than an elevated self conscious animal."
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15693 - 12/07/08 12:27 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Dogs tend to eat feces for a variety of reasons.

One, their diet is lacking, and when nutrients are scarce they can eat their or another animal's poop. That's why they like cat shit so much, it's rich in protein.

Two, bitches will clean up the messes left by newborn puppies to help mask their scent and keep predators at bay.

Humans have no need to do either of these things, eating feces is strictly a species trait, and then it only happens under certain conditions.

Eating shit and shunning someone because of their coat/skin color are two completely different things, and bear no relation to each other.

Why are you setting yourself as above every other human being on this subject? Your claim that you've never judged someone by the way they dress, act, or look makes you the only person out of 6.7 billion to be that way.

If you don't like the word "racist", substitute it with "discrimination", since the two are closely linked. Animals and humans practice discrimination, but only humans can be racist.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#15703 - 12/07/08 02:49 PM Re: Racism [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
“eating feces is strictly a species trait, and then it only happens under certain conditions.”

People do some pretty fucked up things for money. So no, it is not strictly a species trait. People do it as well. Also it doesn’t only happen under certain conditions. My dog does it quite a bit and he doesn’t have a poor diet. Nor does the dog have any puppies to clean up after in order to keep predators at bay.

“Eating shit and shunning someone because of their coat/skin color are two completely different things, and bear no relation to each other.”

While that may be true, it was still very relevant to bring it up. The person I was actually responding to with that post was trying to say that racism is natural because other animals seem to do it. Therefore I brought up something else that other animals do and that if a person did it, wouldn’t be considered natural.

“Why are you setting yourself as above every other human being on this subject?”

I am not setting myself as above every other human on this subject. I am simply speaking for myself and my own beliefs. The opinion that some people have had on this subject are not my own. Some people have spoken in a very broad manner that tries to encompass everyone into fitting that ideal. I don’t feel it was an accurate representation of the way I feel. As such I am speaking for myself. If you feel like I am trying to make myself sound better than everyone else, that is your problem. Get over it. You can have all the opinions you want, I don’t have to share them. Just because I hold a different opinion it doesn’t mean I am setting myself as above every other human on this subject.

“Your claim that you've never judged someone by the way they dress, act, or look”

Where exactly do I make this claim?
_________________________
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#15705 - 12/07/08 03:24 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
People do some pretty fucked up things for money.

What does making money off of eating shit have to do with a person's natural discriminatory tendency?

“Eating shit and shunning someone because of their coat/skin color are two completely different things, and bear no relation to each other.”

 Quote:
While that may be true, it was still very relevant to bring it up. The person I was actually responding to with that post was trying to say that racism is natural because other animals seem to do it. Therefore I brought up something else that other animals do and that if a person did it, wouldn’t be considered natural.


Soooo, you balk at being put in a generalized category that being a Satanist = Racist/Discriminator, yet you go ahead and group all animals together making the claim that all of them eat feces? Very few animals eat feces as a matter of course in the wild--rodents, beetles, baby elephants, pandas, koalas and hippos eat their dam's poo for the helpful bacteria...What if he were to compare us to dolphins? Or bears? They practice species discrimination as well. If you're going to make a comparison to disprove something, you need to find a better example that is a trait possessed by all "test" subjects involved. Eating poop doesn't fall into that category.

“Your claim that you've never judged someone by the way they dress, act, or look”

 Quote:
Where exactly do I make this claim?

In your own words on page 4:

 Quote:
I judge people by their actions and the measure of their character, not by the color of their skin.

In regards to your dog eating poop (which you seem to be okay with), the examples I cited were only two of the most common: http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_PoopEating.php
_________________________
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#15707 - 12/07/08 03:36 PM Re: Racism [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
“What does making money off of eating shit have to do with a person's natural discriminatory tendency? “

I said that because you tried to say that is a special trait. Like people don’t do it. I was simply contradicting you on that point.

“yet you go ahead and group all animals together making the claim that all of them eat feces”

What? I never said all animals eat feces. You really need to read more thoroughly before responding.

“What if he were to compare us to dolphins? Or bears? They practice species discrimination as well.”

If he had done that and said it is normal or natural for people to do it just because other animals do it, I would make the same point.

“Your claim that you've never judged someone by the way they dress, act, or look”

“I judge people by their actions and the measure of their character, not by the color of their skin.”

Notice how I didn’t say that I have never done that. Once again, read more carefully before responding.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15720 - 12/07/08 05:57 PM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Picunnus
Sigh.
I knew I'd get a ping on that one.
Are you seriously asking? Of course they don't all have curly hair.


And why doesn't all Jews have curly hair?
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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#15745 - 12/08/08 05:13 AM Re: Racism [Re: Woland]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
Because they don't all come from the same gene pool. There are Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrahim. The Ashkenazim are descended from the medieval Jewish communities in the Rhineland. The Sephardim originated in the Iberian Peninsula. Mizrahim are from the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and the Caucasus.

Sheesh.
_________________________
WWAD?

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#15749 - 12/08/08 06:58 AM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
This thread is pointless. You go right ahead and have your opinion on who you think you are, and I'll have my opinion on who I think I am and the majority of other people are.

I have better things to do.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#15750 - 12/08/08 07:28 AM Re: Racism [Re: Nemesis]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
This thread is pointless.


Agreed! This thread is pointless because racism is pointless.

Who can provide me a list of the different human races ?

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#15752 - 12/08/08 11:35 AM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Picunnus
Because they don't all come from the same gene pool. There are Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrahim. The Ashkenazim are descended from the medieval Jewish communities in the Rhineland. The Sephardim originated in the Iberian Peninsula. Mizrahim are from the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia and the Caucasus.

Sheesh.


Or could it be that Judaism is a religion and has absolutely nothing to do with "race"?
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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#15761 - 12/08/08 02:18 PM Re: Racism [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
This thread is pointless. You go right ahead and have your opinion on who you think you are, and I'll have my opinion on who I think I am and the majority of other people are.

I have better things to do.



That would be the best course of action. Chances are you will not be able to sway my opinion on this subject.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#15766 - 12/08/08 03:50 PM Re: Racism [Re: Nemesis]
Phaethon Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 78
I'm rather surprised and amused that what I said caused such an uprising between two other people.
And about the poop comment, it is natural to do when there are benefits. Poop (though gross to some) has some nutritional value. It is natural to practice habits that have a noticeable positive effect.
As for racism/ discrimination, There are befits to it, but in most human societies, it also has detrimental effects at times. It is your (subconscious) choice
_________________________
My God & I are one & the same,
We have the same face we have the same name.

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#15793 - 12/08/08 07:35 PM Re: Racism [Re: Woland]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
Ah, well, actually that depends which Jews you talk to. If they are Reform or even Conservative, they will agree with you. If they are Orthodox, they actually do consider themselves to be a race. (They also think that we all owe our existence to them because if the Jewish race were obliterated, the earth would cease to exist. It's only here for them, you know!) They let people convert, true, but VERY FEW people, and it's an extremely arduous process that can take years. If you decide you're not Jewish anymore, too bad. To them, it's something you are, like being black. According to Jewish law, if your mother was Jewish, you are Jewish. You can't just change your mind - at most you would be a "nonpracticing Jew". I tend to think of Jews from the Orthodox view, as they are the only ones with whom I have discussed these things in depth.
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WWAD?

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#15805 - 12/08/08 11:46 PM Re: Racism [Re: Picunnus]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
This thread has run it course and is going no where. I am closing it.
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