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#13880 - 11/04/08 10:52 PM Racism
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
What are your views on racism? My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are. I say dont hate an illegal immigrant for being mexican but hate him for being illegal immigrant and not having the motivation to go about immigrating the legal way. Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still? Most everyone here has family ties to an illegal immigrant unless you're Native American. Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black? Well if racism and stereo-types are all true.. Im white, live in the south, in a trailer park, I must be a redneck in the KKK right?
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#13894 - 11/05/08 05:17 AM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
What are your views on racism?
i think racism kicks ass, and it worked great for china and japan.

My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.
i do hate people because of race, AND for who they are. in fact i hate everyone until proven innocent.

Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still?
yes, they are still bad mexicans because they either a. believed george bush and signed up to protect our "way of life", therefore they are stupid, or B. signed up to get citizenship, in which case they are slightly more clever, but still too fucking lazy to fill out the papers, pay the fees, wait their turns, take the tests, and become citizens like MY GRANDPARENTS HAD TO DO before some traitor in the white house opened the floodgates for his corporate cronies.

Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black?
a black man can become educated, obviously, look at your new president. and you spelled educated wrong.

Well if racism and stereo-types are all true..
are anti-racist stereotypes just as true as the racist stereotypes?


Im white, live in the south, in a trailer park, I must be a redneck in the KKK right?

no you are just a target for tornadoes.

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#13907 - 11/05/08 09:21 AM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
What are your views on racism?


Multiculturalism worked great for Native Americans, didn't it?

I believe it is instinctual in humans - as well as all other animals - to be suspicious and even hateful towards anything foreign. Of course, this is something that can be trained out of humans easier than animals, but that doesn't change the fact that if has to be trained out.

Also, anyone can see that in communities, even though people may not make a conscious decision to do so, they almost always arrange themselves into neighborhoods by race or ethnicity. If you put a map of this town in front of me I can point out the black neighborhoods, the mexican neighborhoods, asian, white, etc. People like to avoid the unfamiliar and surround themselves with the familiar. We feel safer that way.

 Quote:
My thoughts are never hate someone because of race, hate them for who they are.


Good for you. My thoughts are that all you people screaming tolerance should exercise some tolerance towards those who choose not to be so tolerant, lest you find yourself being a hypocrite. I'm not a fan of multiculturalism, faggotry, or anything else that I find personally deviant. It's my personal choice. And I have just as much right to my personal choice/opinion as whites who date blacks and men who suck dick. I also find it a little strange that a self-proclaimed satanist of all people has difficulty understanding that I can think and believe whatever in the hell I want. I'm not out burning crosses or even giving my Sociology instructor the stink-eye, so I don't think my opinion warrants that big a fuss.

Yes, I would give a tit to see all illegal immigrants executed on sight. They have already proven that they have no respect for this country by refusing to go about things the proper way. If they have the right to do what they have done, then I should have the right to break into my neighbor's house and take/do whatever I want. It's macro versus micro.

It's not like its difficult to get into this country legally. We have some of the most lax immigration laws in the world.

 Quote:
Recently 6 local people were granted citizenship after serving in the US Army. Does that make them bad mexicans still?


I suppose that depends on the circumstances. Someone who chooses to display their fealty to our country by joining our military is a completely different person than one who has been caught living here for six months and takes military over deportation. How long did they serve?

 Quote:
Is it true a black man cant become eduacated because he's black?


It is if you ask the black man. How many reports have been released in which blacks score lower on all test scores? And I've even read articles trying to say that they are at a biological disadvantage because it's not safe in Africa to let your baby crawl around on the floor/ground, thus not allowing said baby to form the necessary neuropathways that the pattern of crawling creates. If they want to be equal to whites, they need to stop making excuses. Fuck poverty, that doesn't stop anyone who doesn't want to be stopped. Instead of whining and crying for affirmative action, why aren't blacks out there following the advice of Malcolm X (a racial separatist) and forming their own companies and whatnot? No one respects a bum.

 Quote:
Most everyone here has family ties to an illegal immigrant


Says whom?

 Quote:
I must be a redneck in the KKK right?


Actually, the vast majority of racists/racialists are fairly affluent. Even the Grand Dragon of the local KKK owns his own business. I know college professors, business owners, lawyers, etc who share the views you reject. Racism's not just for skinheads anymore, it seems.

If it makes you feel any better, I temper my personal opinions with the belief that everyone else has the right to make their own opinion as well. And unless they are infringing on my beliefs or trying to shove their lifestyle into my face, I don't care if they are fucking vegetables, worshiping the spaghetti monster, and sacrificing their own offspring.

I guess that makes me more tolerant than you.

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#13923 - 11/05/08 04:15 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
I have to say that there are some very intresting views. I would like to clear up that I am not some sort of tree hugging love everybody person. As far as the mexicans in the military they served 3 years and all have re-enlisted for another 3. My point on the mexicans is by them joining, allowing immigrants to fight for there own freedom reduces the chance of draft coming back.
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#13924 - 11/05/08 04:53 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
If you're scared just say you're scared. No professional soldier wants to see a draft. 'We' are always trying to make the organization more professional. The last thing 'we' want are a bunch of people who do not want to be there.

Of course, Obama and Company may just try to re-institute the draft. Nothing would destroy our professional Army faster than filling the ranks with draftees.
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#13926 - 11/05/08 05:04 PM Re: Racism [Re: Butterz]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Racism is really pointless. I judge people on their actual merits, not for what colour their skin is. Same goes for nationality. If they've worked hard to move to this country, then good for them, and I respect them for doing so. If people work hard for what they want, and respect other people for their merits, then I say they should be respected themselves.

There is no "perfect race" of any kind, for perfection is impossible to achieve, and "perfect" is really just another word for personal preference.
.
.. sorry about that. I was going off on a tangent. Disregard that and just pay attention to the first paragraph. All I have to say on the matter.
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#13929 - 11/05/08 05:23 PM Re: Racism [Re: Fist]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: Fist
If you're scared just say you're scared. No professional soldier wants to see a draft. 'We' are always trying to make the organization more professional. The last thing 'we' want are a bunch of people who do not want to be there.

Of course, Obama and Company may just try to re-institute the draft. Nothing would destroy our professional Army faster than filling the ranks with draftees.


a little off-topic, but I would really like some insight on this.

why would a draft be on the table?
and why would it destroy the military?
thanks

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#13932 - 11/05/08 07:20 PM Re: Racism [Re: Bacchae]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I believe that there are plenty of good reasons to hate a person. The color of their skin, their religion or their sexual preference isn't a valid excuse to me. That is why I personally believe racism springs forth from ignorance as well as a variety of other factors. These factors can include but are not limited to: Negative personal experience(s) with someone from another race, geographical location, ones upbringing etc.

It is worth mentioning that racism is not exclusive to white people. There are people from all races who hold those same views. Even Malcom X ( as cerulean pointed out) was a racial seperatist.

If other people want to be racist, that is fine. I'm not going to try to infringe on their right to think like that. It is when people use violence to express those views that I have a problem with. The same can be said about any belief; from religion to taste in music.
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#13934 - 11/05/08 07:33 PM Re: Racism [Re: DistroyA]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Happy to see a new thread created on racism as I was going to react on some posts in the ONA thread addressing racism. They were a little bit off-topic, so good to have this thread.


I agree with Diavolo that there is a kind a anti-racism taboo. And on this I disagree. This subject should be discussed as freely as any other one.

I do not consider myself as racist. So I'm surprised to read that we're all racists because it's in our genes. Nothing convinced me yet...

On the Cats & Rats example from Diavolo:
Yes cats instinctively predate rats. This is not racism, it's the food chain, the competition between species (not races).

Now if I put some Siamese cats with Persian ones will they naturally segregate based on their race? I would like to see...

So cats eat rats, this is innate as homosexuality. But what about racism? I think it's acquired rather than innate.

About the wolves example from Nemesis, I understand the example is about albinos individuals which are rejected. May I point out that the albinos wolf is of the same race as the others. He's not of a different race. So the example is just irrelevant!

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Not wanting to hire one because you prefer working with white people isn't exactly nice (or legal if you admit to it), but it's understandable.
"Understandable"? Many crimes are not nice, illegal and understandable...

No definition of racism was given up to now. I think this caused some confusion in the posts from the ONA thread.

So let's put a definition (first short one Google found - fine with me):

Racism: An ideology based on the idea that humans can be separated into distinct racial groups and that these groups can be ranked on a hierarchy of intelligence, ability, morality.

According to this definition, racism is not innate but acquired as being an ideology.

If you have an other definition, feel free to give it, I think it will help catching your point.

There was also a slippage from "racism" to "ethnocentrism". How this later is defined, what's the exact link with racism?

Some confusion also when mixing all sorts of discrimination with racism.

Regarding the Old Lady example from Bacchae.
I would say she's racist (cause she fear more blacks than whites) and bigot (that's why she'll refrain -possibly unconsciously- her desire of "doing bad thing to them")

About child 'naturally" segregating themselves, where goes the asian kid adopted by white parent when he was still an infant?

About Quiz from Fist

 Quote:
1. For the sake of argument let's say you were in prison. In the cafeteria there is a table full of White Power guys and a table full of Black gang bangers. What table would you sit at?


Well, I assume in this context the White Power guys and the Black Gang bangers are two gangs. The blacks hate the white and vice-versa. They probably set that as a gang rule. So, (I'm white) of course, if I have to choose I'll go with the white. Not because I'm racist, just because I'm not stupid !!!


 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
My thoughts are that all you people screaming tolerance should exercise some tolerance towards those who choose not to be so tolerant, lest you find yourself being a hypocrite.


I'm not tolerant towards those who choose not to be so tolerant. Not hypocrite, but "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".



Edited by Fabiano (11/05/08 07:35 PM)

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#13936 - 11/05/08 07:45 PM Re: Racism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I would like to add another perspective to this. Where I live, there is a LARGE proportion of east indians. By far more than there are whites. They are mostly a bunch of ignorant fucks that do anything they can to circumvent due process to bring more of their ilk into the country. They smell really bad, and are generally ignorant and selfish. (in the bad way)

It would be really easy to just hate them all because they all share a common race.

But is the race itself the cause of the behavior?

I would say probably not. It's the culture in which they were brought up that sucks. The values they take for granted as being correct. The sikh religion that they follow. To them it's just normal to make their wives and children walk 10 steps behind them, because they were raised to believe women are lesser people.

This could also be applied to blacks, mexicans , etc. They all come from a certain type of culture that a lot of people raised in our culture find reprehensible.

Whether or not being of a certain race in and of itself predisposes people to given 'problematic' cultures really isn't important.
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#13939 - 11/05/08 08:07 PM Re: Racism [Re: Fabiano]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano

I'm not tolerant towards those who choose not to be so tolerant. Not hypocrite, but "eye for eye, tooth for tooth".


Well that's just silly. How can you say you are not tolerant of anything (without being a hypocrite) and still claim you are tolerant. The word, when used in this context means that you accept the beliefs of others.

Are you tolerant of christians? Muslims? Pedophiles? I think that any rational person will see that "tolerance" is just a bullshit term when you try to apply it as a general label for yourself. One cannot call themselves "tolerant" and argue ANYONE'S beliefs.

I'll be honest. I'm intolerant of a lot of things. Why should I feel bad about that? Like they say in Roe v. Wade: It's my choice. (I know they didn't really say that, so don't waste your keystrokes pointing that out).

As far as "eye for eye" goes, I don't see what that has to do with tolerance at all. "Eye for eye" refers to a person's willingness to avenge wrongs done to themselves and their near 'n' dear.

Ethnocentrism refers to a person or group who believes that their race (ethnicity) is superiour and all others are by default inferiour. I think there is a difference between racism and ethnocentrism. I also believe there is a difference between racism, separatism, and racialism.

When you see a bunch of mexicans driving around with "brown pride" stickered onto their cars, that's technically racism. Black Panthers and Black Pride are both racism, as is (technically) calling me a honky, cracker, etc.

Once again, I don't have to be tolerant of a damn thing. If you want to be a raging homo, have a blast. Keep it out of my face and my kids' faces, though. Because that shit don't fly with me. And so long as the minorities keep to their neighborhoods, I promise to keep to mine. Black culture, asian culture, mexican culture...none of them agree with me. So if it makes you feel better, pretend I don't want to live near them because I don't want to hear their music, smell their food, or buy an alarm system for home and car.

How's that?

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#13940 - 11/05/08 08:09 PM Re: Racism [Re: Dan_Dread]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


But is the race itself the cause of the behavior?



The culture is the cause of their behaviour and their race is the fastest and easiest way to determine what their culture is.

So perhaps it's "culturism" we're arguing about.

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#13942 - 11/05/08 08:16 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, culture tends to be a subset of race. But using the word and concept of 'race' generally makes people close their mind like a trap and commence spouting the politically correct anti racist propaganda we have all had shoved down our collective throats since the end of WW2.
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#13944 - 11/05/08 08:27 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I never claimed I was tolerant on eveything !

I'll not enter a ping-pong posts exchange on this. Let's say you don't like other culture and I've a more curious attitude on that. I agree, it's our respective choices.

I work with Indians. They're in suit, don't stink, are clever, and sometimes they do better job than some Belgians. We probably have different background, explaining our differences.

But again, as Dan already pointed it out, we're talking about cultures and the background influence is in favor of an acquired behavior more than an innate one.

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#13949 - 11/05/08 09:19 PM Re: Racism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
Culture does offer more grounds for hate. If any race tries to taint peoples way of life by craming thier own culture down our throats that is more than enough reason to hate. A thought i had on this racism and culturism is, black history month? Is it right to preach this in schools? Does it stop there or will it continue to where every month is about the culture of another race? I am tolerant of any race as long as they are not trying to force thier culture or religion onto me or my children. That said just because I am tolerant of them doesnt mean I respect them or want them as a friend.

As far as mexicans with their brown pride, if mexico is so great go back and have all the pride you want there.

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