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#14692 - 11/19/08 12:53 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Woland]
Ringmaster Offline

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
When it comes to the therapy the thing I don't like is hearing about people switching therapists and then their new one not agreeing with the old, leading to a new med or diagnosis. Not to mention that a person has probably built trust in the previous therapist and now has to build a new web of trust with the new therapist. It just seems like an unending cycle to me.

I do admit that I have seen a few therapists before as a minor because my parents didn't know how to handle me as a juvinile and it never seemed to help one bit. We just kept getting told "sorry I don't have any solutions, take this prescription and go see this person." It went on like that for about 3 months untill I got fed up with it and said no I don't need this. After that I grew up just fine I consider myself a successfull individual. I think that a lot of childrens disorders lie in the parents parenting skills and not the child. I think that a lot of parents just take their kid to a shrink when they don't know what to do, and then all of a sudden the kid's got a bunch of "problems".

When it comes to the art therapy I think it is the most usefull of therapy out there. I say this because (if most of the therapists are the way mine ways back when I went) it isn't the therapist asking a shit load of questions it seemed like interpratation of the way the patients expresses his/her self.

On the medication issue... I think that given the right circumstances and the right medication that the meds are usefull. But it also has to depend on the patient because it could be counterproductive to the patients treatment to stay on the meds and get the mentality that "Hey I got medication I will be fine now."
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

#14694 - 11/19/08 01:48 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Woland]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
senior member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1826
Loc: New York
Thanks Woland, for such an honest response. That was actually very helpful.

Ordinarily, I wouldn’t share my personal problems on an open forum like this, however, I like to get the perspective of those on here, whom I have respect for, and perhaps also to let others, who might be newer to Satanism know, that just because one is a Satanist, doesn’t mean that they have all of the answers to life’s problems, and that embracing the dark side, will not always make things easier.
As a matter of fact, I believe that being a Satanist, and living with a philosophy that encourages self reliance, and strength, makes it considerably harder, when one realizes that they are in a weak position, and finds themself in a situation that they can’t fight their way out of alone.

At the age of 43, this is the first time, that I’m in such a position myself. Although I have had struggles that would break the back of most sheep, I have been able to handle things.
Even now, I know that I will be able to handle what ever comes my way, but I might need to use outside, professional sources.

Actually, I believe, that being a Satanist, makes it harder, because I have to allow myself to be open, and show some vulnerability to the outside world. Albeit a professional world, who deals in such things.

Some might suggest, and I have considered it as well, that being a Satanist also “allows” one, to play Sheep, in order to get ones way.
This may be true in some cases, and is even a necessity, at times, to get along with the majority of the world.
However, there is a point that one cannot go beyond, without actually becoming a sheep. This I cannot do, because it is impossible, due to the fact, that I cannot become something that I am not; even if it would be more convenient, and comfortable to do so.

On a side note, the remark that one is born a Satanist, was the most difficult of the philosophy, for me, to understand. Yet, now after over twenty years of knowing that I was born one myself, evident from the earliest memories of my life, I truly believe the remark to be absolute.

Edited by Asmedious (11/19/08 01:50 PM)
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

#14696 - 11/19/08 02:43 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Asmedious]
Jake999 Offline
senior member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Asmedious, being a Satanist doesn't have to mean "going it alone." There are times when we all just need a little help; a sounding board that we can bounce our ideas and feelings off of to get a little reality check from time to time. It can sometimes be difficult for us to open up, especially when the lifestyle we've chosen shows us, but necessity, that oft times, "silence is golden," but there are times when that silence needs to be broken, if only for our own peace of mind.

As for becoming the sheep, I don't think you would have to worry much about that. From what I've gathered from your posts, you're an individual who's pretty much grounded in your own beliefs and those beliefs have stood you well until now. While you might be open to considering the suggestion of even the most devious of analysts using his profession to direct you into the herd, in the end, I feel certain that you would be wise enough and strong enough to take what you can from therapy, and still chart your own course.

I know that EVERYONE has a period in their life where they're "led to the Abyss," and forced to look down and confront their most cherished conceptions or most primal fears. How one handles that is a mark of their individuality and their intestinal fortitude. Some see it as a wakeup call that they're on a path to destruction, and some see it as a chance for a mid-course correction of sorts. I've been to the Abyss, and I'm sure I'm not alone, but I've always trusted my "inner compass" to get me back on course. I think you'll do fine.
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.

#14700 - 11/19/08 05:00 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Jake999]
Woland Moderator Offline
active member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 766
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Good words, Jake999 and Asmodious (my favourite demon btw.)

A good therapist is excellent at LBM.
Not in order to control you, but to see through all that bullshit we serve ourselves on a daily basis.
A salesman; who is pitching your self to your self.
Assist you in becoming...

Becoming what, one might ask?
The answer should of course be; your self.

My first therapist concluded early on that I had been places most people dont wanna go,
spiritually as well as physically.
He adviced me to accept my experiences as a capital, instead of a problem,
and suggested that I reflect this capital heavily in my line of work.
Which btw. is creative...

Morgan and her experiences with art-therapy comes to mind...
I have done this with an acceptable amount of success for 20 odd years now, and it mostly works.

After merely 2 sessions of therapy, and a HEAVY cutback on alcohol,
I am now making kinda a comeback in my profession.
Now; what could be the reason?
2 X 45 minutes of talk about my all time obsession; my self?
Refraining from drinking myself into a sedated condition every night?
Or; that my inner force, my will, is calling a time out?
That I WANT to become.

A therapist has received training in unveiling basic self-dillusion.
Which I must say; proclaimed Satanists seems to routinly be the victim of.
This should not come as a surprise to anyone,
at least not to one who has participated in Satanism for a number of years.
We do get more than our fair share of Munchausen casualities...

I seem to have figured out the general outline for my self.
But; a good therapist will point at the silly and unremarkable "little" obstructions I have set up for my self.
The stupid things, which have camouflaged themselves as reason.

Nothing the writings of the good Dr. LaVey points to heavily on.
Nietsche on the other hand...


Contra Mundum!

#14701 - 11/19/08 05:19 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Jake999]
ZephyrGirl Offline
active member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Again as someone who is on anti depressents I think that they have been nothing but a positive thing in my life. I'm not a zombie and I'm certainly not weak or a sheep because of them. Alot of people have problems just thinking about how they would handle going through what I am going through having a terminal illness, let alone actually dealing with it.

This pervaling opinion that taking SSRI's or the like makes one weaker or a sheep is really a bit offensive to me. Actually I don't know if offensive is the right word for how that makes me feel, but it certainly pisses me off a bit.

Standing up and admitting you need help and then accepting it, is a damn site tougher than hiding your head in the sand, self medicating or being in denial. Being in denial is easy and weak. (That is not me calling anyne weak, just in case, not to be taken personally by anyone).

I'm not saying that you SHOULD be on anti depressents, but I do think that you should research them and their positive effects alot more before making judgements.

A woman I know who was recently diagnosed with MS, after much denial got put on anti depressents. She didn't want to go on them because of all the negetive stuff she'd been told by non professionals and an uneducated society on the matter of them, but her doctor finally talked her into it.

Anyway, three months later and she is so glad that she took the plunge and started on them. She has lost about 6 kilos in weight as she no longer finds a need to self medicate with alcohol or comfort eating, and has found new strength to deal with a very devestating illness. I know that myself and this example are extreme cases, but if you go on them for 18 months of you life whilst you get your shit together, chances are you will be able to go off them again once the 'crisis' has passsed. It's not neccesarily a life long sentence.

I agree with you that being a Satanist is a hard road. Funny isn't it, that when I got diagnosed with my ABC, I didn't find God, but rather found a philosophy that offers no comfort in the thoughts of life after death etc.

All I know for sure, is that as long as my kids and family remember me, that is good enough for me. As much as I'd like to leave a legacy for the whole world to remember me, I know it is much easier said than done.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.

#14706 - 11/19/08 08:49 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
senior member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1826
Loc: New York
Zeph, just to clarify things, I may have mis-spoken (wrote).

I did not mean to imply, that everyone on antidepressants, or who seeks some kind of assistance in other ways is weak, or anything like that. I may have come across as over generalizing it, while instead, I should have made my case more personal.

The weakness, which I spoke of, was mostly how I feel about myself, regarding the situation.

Being painted into a corner, where I strongly feel my animal urges of flight, or fight being brought out of me, yet also being cornered in away where fighting seems fruitless, due to the pieces of shit whom are involved and have way too much power and control, makes me feel as if I am up against a tank driven by a robot, while I am armed with a feather duster.

I know that I am not a good candidate for anti-depressant medications, because even very basic things can make me happy. When the sun is shining, and I’m in an outside caffe with a friend; going to a concert or other live performance; a good movie; a nice dinner out; flirting; or just reading a good book, I can be on top of the world.
Those who truly need anti-depressants (in my opinion) have difficulty being content and “happy,” even when life is good.

On the other hand, I see many people on medications, who just have a lot of shit in their lives. They get the meds, because it makes the difficulty not seem so bad.

If I was into conspiracy theories, I would think that anti-depressants are often used to keep the masses from getting truly fed up, and fighting back, instead of giving the medications to those who truly need them.

I’ve had two co-workers trying to convince me to go on anti-depressants (as they are) because it would make the job easier to deal with.
Well, fuck that. The job sucks and it involves figuratively, and literally dealing with shit. I want shit to smell like shit to me, and not like roses.
I don’t want to be content in an environment, by taking medications, that is a pit of discontent and stress.
It’s true that going the medication route, I might become less discontented with that particular situation, but I would lose the desire to work on getting the hell out of there.

As the IRS comes after me, for an exuberant amount of money that they wrongly claim I owe them I don’t want to pop some pills, and just go along with the program of working in a hell hole, merely for the purpose to pay their extortion fees.

What I am saying, is that FOR ME, my anger and stress comes from situations which create these emotions, and not from a possible chemical imbalance in my brain.
Ha ha, and before anyone suggests that I should try using Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, be assured that I am. Otherwise..
...well, I rather not get into that on here ;\)
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

#21395 - 03/02/09 12:41 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Ringmaster]
LordOf_illusions Offline

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 31
Loc: Kansas

Psychiatry especially it's constituents reminds me of those quit smoking commercials you know with the pills and patches.

"I just don't have enough will power of my own to quit smoking these cigarettes that I know will bring me cancer and death if I keep using them but nonetheless I keep using them anyways because I'm so easily influenced and manipulated by others."

"Oh no, what shall I ever do?"

"I'm weak and powerless in that I need a outside influence to help do things for me because I'm so naive not to mention easily influenced because I suck up other people's demands like a sponge especially when it comes to market advertisement."

Can you see the parallel between a nicotine addict and a person in line with psychiatry?

And then there is the salesman for the pathetic ill equipped weak willed smoker much like how a psychiatrist is a salesman.

( Both sell states of illusional peace of mind.)

"Do you got a problem? I can fix it!"

"Allow me to help you since you are naive and weak willed."

"Allow me to make a profit and career out of your suffering."

"Allow me to have control over your life in that you lack the will to have power over it yourself."

Edited by LordOf_illusions (03/02/09 12:54 PM)

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