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#14526 - 11/16/08 01:01 PM Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated?
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
I have been pondering this for quite some time now. Is psychiatry as usefull as people put it up to be? Or is it overrated?

I ask this because all psychiatry really is in a nutshell is some person going to see a complete stranger whom they have never met in their life and pay an assload of money to sit down and talk to this stranger. They sit and whine, cry, bitch, vent, and get told how they feel by the stranger. This stranger first off, doesn't HONESTLY KNOW anything about the patient except what he is told by the patient, and second the stranger probably doesn't even give two shits about how the patient feels.

I do understand that yes people need to vent out emotions, cry on someone's shoulder, ect ect... But isn't this what someoneone's friends and family are for? Why should a person PAY to be told how THEY feel by someone else?

Also violent criminals and sex offenders are sent to see shrinks. Once the shrink thinks that the offender is "cured" of whatever mental illness "made them commit their crime" the offender is sent back into society being deemed "a changed man." I find this amusing simply for the fact that the shrink only knows what is told to him by the offender and his file. So technically the shrink doesn't know shit about this person because of the fact that no man can truely know another man unless he were capable of reading his thoughts, we can only recognize behavior patterns of an individual and make a GUESS as to how they will act based on what the person has CHOSEN to show us.

My opinion on this is... psychiatry is overrated to an extent. I say to an extent because of the fact that statistics give us the ability to reason and assume a person will act the way that they do based on one's behavioral patterns. Granted the statistics are never a set in stone formula to how a person will act because there will always be an anomaly to any statistic. The idea of "it was like this on this many occasions so it will always be like this" is just sheer stupidity and outright narrowminded. As long as it is recognized that a deviation from the statistics is possibly and proceeding with caution makes a little bit more sense.

In the need of seeing a shrink I think that it is highly overrated. I say this because I think that if a person is so ignorant and out of tune with one's own thoughts and emotions then it shows the person to be weak and feeble minded and they should be looked at as such. Also the arguement I posted about stastics can work here as well because it is never set into stone so there is always the possiblilty that the shrink could be wrong. What are your thoughts on this?
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#14527 - 11/16/08 01:36 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Ringmaster]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Psychiatry in my opinion is actually both. It is usefull but a bit overrated.
Firstly it is a good thing because like you mentioned it can help people to whine/cry a bit about it. It is some sort of relief. Most if the time a psychologist knows what he is doing and has studied things to notice when a person is lying, to notice when a person has hidden feelings about a certain subject etc. He can, by simply asking questions, set the persons problems free and then help him with some of his toughts wich are bothering him. And indeed as you mentioned:
 Quote:
and second the stranger probably doesn't even give two shits about how the patient feels.
.

 Quote:
But isn't this what someoneone's friends and family are for? Why should a person PAY to be told how THEY feel by someone else?
. A person would pay to talk to such a person because od the simple fact there are some things you just can't tell to your family and/or friends. Plus a psychologist has the right to remain silent about the subject what a patient told him. This under any circumstance. You can place this between brackets because there are some situations where this doesn't occur.

 Quote:
Also violent criminals and sex offenders are sent to see shrinks. Once the shrink thinks that the offender is "cured" of whatever mental illness "made them commit their crime" the offender is sent back into society being deemed "a changed man."
I'm sharing your opinion here. I don't believe it when a person who comitted a crime and who was called "mental disordered" to be changed after a good talk with a psychologist. In my opinion he has to sit in jail afterwards as a punishment. He committed a crime and when one commits a crime you have to go to the jail. Simple logic. You always must carry the consequences from your behavious, even if you were "mentel ill".
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#14532 - 11/16/08 02:27 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Since the late 70s or so, it has been popular within western legal systems to create scapegoats for responsibility. Mental illness has always been the flagship of this fleet.

This opened the floodgates to a whole cottage industry of pop psychology and psychiatry to spring up like dandelions in a rose garden. This line of thinking quickly spread beyond the legal system. And why not? Where the market provides opportunity there will always be entrepreneurs to capitalize.

Now we have what would have been in my childhood 'hyper' children doped up on Ritalin and whatever else to keep their adhd or add or whatever else has been invented for them in check. Much easier for the lazy and irresponsible parent that way. Medicated kids are much easier.

The examples go on and on, but they all boil down to the same vile concoction.

So we are left with a very valid science in psychology, as it describes the science of mapping and understanding the nature of the human animal (anthropology), but separating the good stuff from the pop-crap becomes the challenge.

Just another level of stratification. The rubes will always be lured by the shiniest object. Satanists should be able to see through it.
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ideological vandal

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#14543 - 11/16/08 05:17 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
If you going to talk about psychiatry you should realize that the therapy part is mostly optional in this day and age and never a first course of treatment of people with mental disorders or people who are just having a difficult time dealing with life in general. The age of SSRI's and the like are making therapy all but extinct. Shit, people need therapy just to deal with the side-effects of these meds. "Professionals" will admit they are lacking any concrete reasons or models for mental disorders/imbalances and also admit they are in the dark about why the flood of pharmaceuticals being used to treat their patients (lab rats) are moderately successful. Phrases like chemical imbalance are thrown around without any grounding in anything but the latest clinical trials for the next fad antidepressant. This treatment is not any better then shaking the shit out of someone's brain and seeing if it does anything. The days of electrical and pharmacological shock treatment have nothing in between them but a few generations. (Electroshock is still alive and well, just check out ECT in your dictionary of politically correct terminology.) Psychiatrists are nothing but witch-doctors(no offense to witch doctors) who operate in the dark ages of their profession. And it's the patients that suffer, and they will suffer.

Edited by The AntiChris (11/16/08 06:15 PM)
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#14566 - 11/17/08 01:09 AM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: The AntiChris]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I think that shrinks and those type serve a purpose.

You can't always talk to your family because sometimes they are the ones hurting you. You dont always know how to deal with issues like death, loss, or even depression, and sometimes they can help.

Yes, there is a lot of overmedication, and sometimes, that can kill you. But the pain that some of those people face is not something that you can just write off.

Its not a matter of being weak, sometimes its a matter of being strong. When I worked in a childlife unit in a hospital as a therapist there was this one kid. She was 5 years old. It was her third admission for anorexia. Her life was so fucked up and controlling that the only power she had was over her own body. There are no real medications for that, just talk/art therapy.

After working with some of the kids, and not really being able to help them because their fucked up conditions were brought about their families, I had to get out.

As for criminals, fuck em, if they did it beyond a reason of a doubt just kill them.
That goes for rapists, molesters, and killers.
No statue of limitations, you did the crime, you pay for the crime.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#14570 - 11/17/08 03:23 AM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Morgan]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
There seems to be no distinction so far in this conversation between psycotherapists (they are the ones that can only talk) and psychiatrists (sorry about the spelling), who are the ones that are doctors and can prescribe medications.

Having a brother with schizophrenia, I have seen much good come from the mental health practises of today, however I do have some opinions on people taking responsibility for their own treatment.

You may have to search around and try several psychiatrists until you find one that is the right 'fit' for you. The same goes for the drugs that you may need to fix whatever imbalances you may have. Not all SSRI's and the like are the same, I know because I am on them because of my terminal illness. Depression walks hand and hand with terminal illnesses, so I find that anti depressents have a huge helpful influence on me, not only mentally, but alot of my side effects and symptoms of illness also. I have had to try a couple though, before I have found the right one for me, as I have had some horrible side effects (like brain shudders for example). But if you are in charge of your own treatment (which I am in every front), then you won't mind being in charge of trying things until you find that one that works for you.

I think the biggest problem in most medical professions these days is that there are too many doctors out there, that think they know you better than you know yourself, and in my case, this is just not true. I have my core doctors though, that have gotten to know me and know that I want to know all aobut my treatments, both physical and mental, and will question what they are doing and why. Like every aspect of your life you don't just follow along blindly, but question.

I have met many people through my brother, who live fulfilling, contributing lives, that couldn't do so without the various medications they are on. Chemical imbalance is not something that is made up, and when treated properly can have profound effects for the good of people, but they have to be part of the solution and not just a sheep or guiniea pig themselves.

The prevailing attitude that it's all witch doctors etc is actually doing alot of harm to people that could be seriously helped by psychiatric drugs and therapy, but are put off because it is trendy to be against it.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#14581 - 11/17/08 09:18 AM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: ZephyrGirl]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
Any problem at all can be related to a chemical imbalance. The fact is there are only theories as to why antidepressants have the effect they do and chemical imbalance is double-speak terminology used to pacify. I have also seen this system at work for a long time from many different perspectives and I still fail to see how making a collage from outdated magazines in the therapists waiting room constitutes art therapy. I am not speaking from a soapbox. I have walked hand in hand with a close family member for over 15 years in his battle with mental illness and I implore you that witch doctor is not a term I used in vain, but rather it is from years of close up experience dealing with the true state of affairs in the mental health field. Hopefully our grandchildren will see today as a dark piece of history, as we view medicine before the days of anesthetics and antibiotics. Scores of doctors, medications and the like have done nothing but keep him apathetic and a-sexual and he will be the first to admit the hopelessness of this situation. He has a choice of living in severe mental distress or a state of eternal indifference. As a Satanist, being sentenced to an inescapable life of mediocrity is not acceptable. If SSRIs are in fact something other than an emotional analgesic I have not seen any evidence. From my experience most severely ill patients have extreme difficulty just staying on their meds because they often choose their illness over the effects of the drugs.

Edited by The AntiChris (11/17/08 09:22 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#14586 - 11/17/08 01:15 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Ringmaster]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
Working on an Intensive Care Psychiatric ward, as a nurse, for over nine years, I have gotten a pretty good idea of how Psychiatry works.

There is a vast difference by the way, between “Psychology,” which deals with thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and how we use them; as opposed to “Psychiatry,” which although also deals with the same things that psychology does, it also adds a medical aspect to it, as well as medications if needed.

During my time in the Psych ward, I have not once seen “Psychology,” have any effect on our patients. Frankly, I could not understand what the point of having Psychologists on our unit was. They were able to analyze I guess, but they didn’t have much to offer in regards to realistic and therapeutic results.
I am not attempting to put the psychologists down, because all in all, they were decent people as far as that goes, although many viewed themselves as above or dare I say “elite” to the patients and the rest of the staff, who did not have doctorate degrees. Truth be told, they were above most of us in education, and even breeding, and they were right to feel above most of us. The unfortunate part is, that the attitude, showed through, even if they did not intend it to, and it went against them, when it came to therapy. Just to clarify, they didn’t in any way put anyone down or treat us with disrespect. They simply had the aura of self confidence, and success, which when sensed by many of our patients who were as low in life as one can get, it worked against them.

Also, our patients were often in crisis, so attempting to treat them with psychology, was like attempting to put out a forest fire by spitting on it.

On the other hand, the psychiatrists, were able to analyze the patients and give them a diagnosis, which they could treat with medications. (Psychologists are not medical doctors and can’t prescribe meds, while psychiatrists are medical doctors and can prescribe.)

The medications, definitely did work in most of the cases. Often I would see someone come in, in restraints, yelling, threatening, spitting and fighting, and in about 72 or so hours, once the meds took affect, they regained self control, and many times were the nicest people you could meet. Often times, they were grateful to us, for assisting them in regaining self control. Even when they would fight us, prior to their treatment, claiming that they didn’t want it.

Unfortunately, once they were discharged and feeling better, most of them decided that perhaps they did not need the medications, and attempted to go without, which caused them to return on a routine basis.

On the other hand, I find that medications for depression are way over prescribed. As a matter of fact, I would say that at the very least, half of the people that I know in person, are on some kind of medication for depression, or for mood control; and that’s just the ones who are willing to admit it.

As any person, I too get into dark moods, depression, and have the feeling of hopelessness, and I realize
that if I talked to a psychiatrist at those times, they would attempt to prescribe something for me as well.
However, I also realize, that my negative moods are secondary, or related to certain situations in my life, and there is a cause behind how I feel. Therefore, although medications would take the negative feelings away, they would not solve the underlying issues. So for me to take medications at those times, would be like attempting to cure a tooth ache with pain pills, instead of a root canal. Instead I attempt to solve the things in my life that cause the discomfort.

Recently though, I’ve had situations come up, that I do not have answers to, and find myself up against battles that I simply do not have the ability to resolve. To be honest, I’m in a situation right now, where I feel defeated and do not have the tools or even the will to try to fight back. This doesn’t mean, that I am going to lay down, and die, but I simply do not know as of yet, where to go from this point. It appears that I’m at a point in life, where I will need to get professional assistance which is very difficult for me, because ever since I was an adult, I WAS the professional that people turned to. This to me is a sign of weakness. Actually, it is not a sign of it, it is a weakness and a deficiency in me, and for someone who has always been self reliant, is a big downer, quite frankly.
I have been pushed to the point, where I am seriously thinking about getting a psychological analysis, just to make sure that I haven’t gone over the “edge.”
Although I feel sane, I am starting to doubt the sanity of those around me; and I realize that often feeling as if everyone is crazy, is actually a sign of being unstable oneself.
Therefore, I feel that a psychological analysis is in order, and if the results put me somewhere in the “normal,” scale, then I can take comfort in the fact, that I am indeed surrounded by individuals who are themselves in need of mental care. Again, most of them are on some kind of mood stabilizers, so that is a bit of a relief.

The point being, is that I do believe that Psychology, and Psychiatry have their place, a person would be wise to use them as tools, instead of definite solutions. Just as medicine can help one feel better, it doesn’t always cure the cause of the illness, but merely covers it up. Also, as with medications, there are different methods of psychology and psychiatry, and although some might appear to be helpful, they do more harm then benefit, in the long run.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#14592 - 11/17/08 03:46 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Asmedious]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
On the other hand, I find that medications for depression are way over prescribed. As a matter of fact, I would say that at the very least, half of the people that I know in person, are on some kind of medication for depression, or for mood control; and that’s just the ones who are willing to admit it.


It seems that this is why most people are anti-psychiatry. The fact that soooo many people are on anti-depressants. And most of them are prescribed by their locum doctors anyway not actually psychiatrists. So maybe it's not psychiatrists at fault for this over prescription, but rather GP's.

How many people self medicate? Alot of people start using ecstasy and stuff to make them feel less depressed and end up damaging their brains more and more until they need chemicals just to make it through the day.

I agree with everything you have said, you have basically said what I wanted to, you've just put it into words better than I.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#14596 - 11/17/08 05:24 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: ZephyrGirl]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I've kown some very neurotic people. The bipolar people in my past were the worst I've seen.

They were a hell of a lot happier and tolerable to be around when they were on their meds regularly. It didn't turn them into zombies or anything, more or less the opposite of that.

I worry about too much reliance on medication as a society for milder things than bipolar disorder.

But uderstand that the driving factor for treating an illness is money, and not in the way you think. The number one and number two most expensive diseases of all in the US are both mental. number 2 is alzheimer's, number 1 is depression (taking into account lost worker productivity). With the medications, counseling, and institutions that are in place, those diseases cost America less money. In general, other countries adjust their response to these diseases by how much it cost them. These are rules indirectly set in place by national governments.

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#14604 - 11/17/08 07:32 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: coelentrate]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
A quick reply to all.

Art therapy is a way of expressing inner problems when you don't know the words, or how to express yourself. It is a valuable tool with children, veterans, and the adult populations that I have worked with in the past. I even used it as a tool to help patients work through repeatedly bad dreams. Just because something doesn't work for you is no reason to disparage it.

"He has a choice of living in severe mental distress or a state of eternal indifference. As a Satanist, being sentenced to an inescapable life of mediocrity is not acceptable."

Yes, but its his choice, and hes not you. I have learned that you can't force your views on others especially in regards to treatment. They have to decide what they want to do to help themselves.

"Unfortunately, once they were discharged and feeling better, most of them decided that perhaps they did not need the medications, and attempted to go without, which caused them to return on a routine basis."

This is a big ass problem, revolving door cases. Dual diagnosis patients are the worse in this matter.

"I have been pushed to the point, where I am seriously thinking about getting a psychological analysis, just to make sure that I haven’t gone over the “edge.”

If you are worring that you went over the edge, you haven't. Its when you can't recognize the difference its a problem.

"I worry about too much reliance on medication as a society for milder things than bipolar disorder."

Me too. My best friend died from being over medicated. She was on so many different things that it just ended up killing her.

I think this speciality is just like anything else. You have to ask questions, see how the vibe is between you, and ask about goals, short and long term plans for treatment. As well as other cases they handle, and their perfered course of treatment.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#14608 - 11/17/08 07:44 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Things have changed a lot since I was young. My sister was placed in the Alton, IL mental facility when she was a teenager for "running away and being delinquent." Back then (Late 50's) shock treatments were in favor, along with healthy doses of Thorazine. I still remember the blank, out of it look and the classic "Thorazine shuffle." She was lucky. Just a few years before that and she probably would have been caught up in the lobotomy fever that swept the field of Psychiatry, or the long-term prescription of psychotropics which caused many many cases of Tardive Dyskinesia from overuse.

Drugs are good and drugs are bad. The problem is in deciding when they are needed and when they are "expedient." Clearly a paranoid schizophrenic type individual could do well with a little medication to even things out, but the ADHD child might just be high energy, rather than hyperactive. It takes a keen eye to determine which is which, and psychiatry, at its best, does well. Psychology, not so much.

Psychology often draws too much of its $$ in midlevel diagnosis for kids, as schools get extra money when they have students with "special needs," and ADHD is a good money maker... it's a moving target that can fit a lot of cases for kids. Some MAY be cursed with ADHD, but how many kids who are just high energy are sucked up in the same vacuum for treatment?

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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#14615 - 11/17/08 08:55 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Morgan]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Morgan

Art therapy is a way of expressing inner problems when you don't know the words, or how to express yourself. It is a valuable tool with children, veterans, and the adult populations that I have worked with in the past. I even used it as a tool to help patients work through repeatedly bad dreams. Just because something doesn't work for you is no reason to disparage it.

"He has a choice of living in severe mental distress or a state of eternal indifference. As a Satanist, being sentenced to an inescapable life of mediocrity is not acceptable."

Yes, but its his choice, and hes not you. I have learned that you can't force your views on others especially in regards to treatment. They have to decide what they want to do to help themselves.




Ok first of all I don't think you understand the gravity of my statements. My family member is an intelligent adult and doesn't appreciate being treated like a 5 year old child with so called art therapy. I will disparage it because it is deserving of such. This sort of treatment is at best insulting to the one suffering. I have also been subjected to this insult when getting treatment for alcohol addiction and frankly its absurdity made me want to have a drink. I recovered on my own with only their Librium to help me. Nothing more.

Again by your words I don't feel you understand the true nature of what you are saying. By having a choice between illness and apathy he HAS NO CHOICE. I am not heaping an opinion but rather describing his reality. I will not praise the medication or therapy that exists within the mainstream. At least mental health practitioners can admit to having their hands tied and lacking the understanding and empathy they pretend to have. From the way you approach this subject you sound like you could be a drug rep. ABILIFY perhaps. Tell me this, who do you think the medication actually helps more anyway the support group or the patient.
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Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

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#14667 - 11/18/08 08:48 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: The AntiChris]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Tell me this, who do you think the medication actually helps more anyway the support group or the patient"

Depends on the patient, no medication helps everyone, and for some people its a waste of time. If they go on and off of different things, they build up a tolerance to it, and then the dosage has to be changed again. Im not a big prodrug person, my best friend died from doctors overmedicating her.

"I will disparage it because it is deserving of such."

If it was presented poorly and the person spoke down to the patients I can see where it would fucked up. Its just another tool, like I said. It has worked in the past, but it doesn't work for everyone.

"By having a choice between illness and apathy he HAS NO CHOICE."

Then he needs to look for a new doctor, do more research on his situation, or self-medicate. Illness, and apathy or numbness is not good. He has to find a medium where he can function. If he is an adult, and he has been going through probably schizophere for years, there may not be anything else to be done. It sounds fucked up, but if the meds are too strong, and the illness is too strong, he needs an outlet to voice his anger or it will get worse. The meds should at the very least take the edge off of it.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#14685 - 11/19/08 02:25 AM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Asmedious]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Recently though, I’ve had situations come up, that I do not have answers to, and find myself up against battles that I simply do not have the ability to resolve. To be honest, I’m in a situation right now, where I feel defeated and do not have the tools or even the will to try to fight back. This doesn’t mean, that I am going to lay down, and die, but I simply do not know as of yet, where to go from this point. It appears that I’m at a point in life, where I will need to get professional assistance which is very difficult for me, because ever since I was an adult, I WAS the professional that people turned to. This to me is a sign of weakness. Actually, it is not a sign of it, it is a weakness and a deficiency in me, and for someone who has always been self reliant, is a big downer, quite frankly.
I have been pushed to the point, where I am seriously thinking about getting a psychological analysis, just to make sure that I haven’t gone over the “edge.”
Although I feel sane, I am starting to doubt the sanity of those around me; and I realize that often feeling as if everyone is crazy, is actually a sign of being unstable oneself.
Therefore, I feel that a psychological analysis is in order, and if the results put me somewhere in the “normal,” scale, then I can take comfort in the fact, that I am indeed surrounded by individuals who are themselves in need of mental care. Again, most of them are on some kind of mood stabilizers, so that is a bit of a relief.


I recently decided to go into therapy as my self-medication (systematic & daily use of alcohol) was hitting an all time high.
I am disgusted by having to turn to a therapy (weakness), but decided that I am even more disgusted by my substance abuse (even weaker).

I find that it helps me.
There is only so much shit I am willing to offload on my nearest & dearest.

Been in therapy before, in my late 20s.
Aggression issues, which I was given eminent tools to deal with.

I have been offered the happy-pills, but I see no reason to trade one sedative with the other.
My mom was repeatedly off to the sweet embrace of Prince Valium during most of my childhood, so I have a natural dislike of psychofarmacy.

My "disorder" is mild.
Alienated, destructive, schizoid etc.
Most of my "symptoms" can be related to anger & frustration.
Really more of a social illness, kind of a Kafka-syndrome.
The natural hurts of going against the grain for more than 40 years, I would suppose.
No need for medication, and a defined need for mapping the consequences of my individual state of mind.

And; I seem to have been lucky with my therapists.
Smart & decent people so far.

I also think that being invited into the whys and wherefores in the mind of an intelligent and reflected Satanist is partytime for any therapist worth their salt.
We tend to be honest about shit...

And; chemicals for the proper loonies, sad creatures that most of them are.
Ive seen it help immensly.
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#14692 - 11/19/08 12:53 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Woland]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
When it comes to the therapy the thing I don't like is hearing about people switching therapists and then their new one not agreeing with the old, leading to a new med or diagnosis. Not to mention that a person has probably built trust in the previous therapist and now has to build a new web of trust with the new therapist. It just seems like an unending cycle to me.

I do admit that I have seen a few therapists before as a minor because my parents didn't know how to handle me as a juvinile and it never seemed to help one bit. We just kept getting told "sorry I don't have any solutions, take this prescription and go see this person." It went on like that for about 3 months untill I got fed up with it and said no I don't need this. After that I grew up just fine I consider myself a successfull individual. I think that a lot of childrens disorders lie in the parents parenting skills and not the child. I think that a lot of parents just take their kid to a shrink when they don't know what to do, and then all of a sudden the kid's got a bunch of "problems".

When it comes to the art therapy I think it is the most usefull of therapy out there. I say this because (if most of the therapists are the way mine ways back when I went) it isn't the therapist asking a shit load of questions it seemed like interpratation of the way the patients expresses his/her self.

On the medication issue... I think that given the right circumstances and the right medication that the meds are usefull. But it also has to depend on the patient because it could be counterproductive to the patients treatment to stay on the meds and get the mentality that "Hey I got medication I will be fine now."
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#14694 - 11/19/08 01:48 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Woland]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
Thanks Woland, for such an honest response. That was actually very helpful.

Ordinarily, I wouldn’t share my personal problems on an open forum like this, however, I like to get the perspective of those on here, whom I have respect for, and perhaps also to let others, who might be newer to Satanism know, that just because one is a Satanist, doesn’t mean that they have all of the answers to life’s problems, and that embracing the dark side, will not always make things easier.
As a matter of fact, I believe that being a Satanist, and living with a philosophy that encourages self reliance, and strength, makes it considerably harder, when one realizes that they are in a weak position, and finds themself in a situation that they can’t fight their way out of alone.

At the age of 43, this is the first time, that I’m in such a position myself. Although I have had struggles that would break the back of most sheep, I have been able to handle things.
Even now, I know that I will be able to handle what ever comes my way, but I might need to use outside, professional sources.

Actually, I believe, that being a Satanist, makes it harder, because I have to allow myself to be open, and show some vulnerability to the outside world. Albeit a professional world, who deals in such things.

Some might suggest, and I have considered it as well, that being a Satanist also “allows” one, to play Sheep, in order to get ones way.
This may be true in some cases, and is even a necessity, at times, to get along with the majority of the world.
However, there is a point that one cannot go beyond, without actually becoming a sheep. This I cannot do, because it is impossible, due to the fact, that I cannot become something that I am not; even if it would be more convenient, and comfortable to do so.

On a side note, the remark that one is born a Satanist, was the most difficult of the philosophy, for me, to understand. Yet, now after over twenty years of knowing that I was born one myself, evident from the earliest memories of my life, I truly believe the remark to be absolute.


Edited by Asmedious (11/19/08 01:50 PM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#14696 - 11/19/08 02:43 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Asmedious]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Asmedious, being a Satanist doesn't have to mean "going it alone." There are times when we all just need a little help; a sounding board that we can bounce our ideas and feelings off of to get a little reality check from time to time. It can sometimes be difficult for us to open up, especially when the lifestyle we've chosen shows us, but necessity, that oft times, "silence is golden," but there are times when that silence needs to be broken, if only for our own peace of mind.

As for becoming the sheep, I don't think you would have to worry much about that. From what I've gathered from your posts, you're an individual who's pretty much grounded in your own beliefs and those beliefs have stood you well until now. While you might be open to considering the suggestion of even the most devious of analysts using his profession to direct you into the herd, in the end, I feel certain that you would be wise enough and strong enough to take what you can from therapy, and still chart your own course.

I know that EVERYONE has a period in their life where they're "led to the Abyss," and forced to look down and confront their most cherished conceptions or most primal fears. How one handles that is a mark of their individuality and their intestinal fortitude. Some see it as a wakeup call that they're on a path to destruction, and some see it as a chance for a mid-course correction of sorts. I've been to the Abyss, and I'm sure I'm not alone, but I've always trusted my "inner compass" to get me back on course. I think you'll do fine.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#14700 - 11/19/08 05:00 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Jake999]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Good words, Jake999 and Asmodious (my favourite demon btw.)

A good therapist is excellent at LBM.
Not in order to control you, but to see through all that bullshit we serve ourselves on a daily basis.
A salesman; who is pitching your self to your self.
Assist you in becoming...

Becoming what, one might ask?
The answer should of course be; your self.

My first therapist concluded early on that I had been places most people dont wanna go,
spiritually as well as physically.
He adviced me to accept my experiences as a capital, instead of a problem,
and suggested that I reflect this capital heavily in my line of work.
Which btw. is creative...

Morgan and her experiences with art-therapy comes to mind...
I have done this with an acceptable amount of success for 20 odd years now, and it mostly works.

After merely 2 sessions of therapy, and a HEAVY cutback on alcohol,
I am now making kinda a comeback in my profession.
Now; what could be the reason?
2 X 45 minutes of talk about my all time obsession; my self?
Refraining from drinking myself into a sedated condition every night?
Or; that my inner force, my will, is calling a time out?
That I WANT to become.

A therapist has received training in unveiling basic self-dillusion.
Which I must say; proclaimed Satanists seems to routinly be the victim of.
This should not come as a surprise to anyone,
at least not to one who has participated in Satanism for a number of years.
We do get more than our fair share of Munchausen casualities...

I seem to have figured out the general outline for my self.
But; a good therapist will point at the silly and unremarkable "little" obstructions I have set up for my self.
The stupid things, which have camouflaged themselves as reason.

Nothing the writings of the good Dr. LaVey points to heavily on.
Nietsche on the other hand...
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#14701 - 11/19/08 05:19 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Jake999]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Again as someone who is on anti depressents I think that they have been nothing but a positive thing in my life. I'm not a zombie and I'm certainly not weak or a sheep because of them. Alot of people have problems just thinking about how they would handle going through what I am going through having a terminal illness, let alone actually dealing with it.

This pervaling opinion that taking SSRI's or the like makes one weaker or a sheep is really a bit offensive to me. Actually I don't know if offensive is the right word for how that makes me feel, but it certainly pisses me off a bit.

Standing up and admitting you need help and then accepting it, is a damn site tougher than hiding your head in the sand, self medicating or being in denial. Being in denial is easy and weak. (That is not me calling anyne weak, just in case, not to be taken personally by anyone).

I'm not saying that you SHOULD be on anti depressents, but I do think that you should research them and their positive effects alot more before making judgements.

A woman I know who was recently diagnosed with MS, after much denial got put on anti depressents. She didn't want to go on them because of all the negetive stuff she'd been told by non professionals and an uneducated society on the matter of them, but her doctor finally talked her into it.

Anyway, three months later and she is so glad that she took the plunge and started on them. She has lost about 6 kilos in weight as she no longer finds a need to self medicate with alcohol or comfort eating, and has found new strength to deal with a very devestating illness. I know that myself and this example are extreme cases, but if you go on them for 18 months of you life whilst you get your shit together, chances are you will be able to go off them again once the 'crisis' has passsed. It's not neccesarily a life long sentence.

I agree with you that being a Satanist is a hard road. Funny isn't it, that when I got diagnosed with my ABC, I didn't find God, but rather found a philosophy that offers no comfort in the thoughts of life after death etc.

All I know for sure, is that as long as my kids and family remember me, that is good enough for me. As much as I'd like to leave a legacy for the whole world to remember me, I know it is much easier said than done.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#14706 - 11/19/08 08:49 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
Zeph, just to clarify things, I may have mis-spoken (wrote).

I did not mean to imply, that everyone on antidepressants, or who seeks some kind of assistance in other ways is weak, or anything like that. I may have come across as over generalizing it, while instead, I should have made my case more personal.

The weakness, which I spoke of, was mostly how I feel about myself, regarding the situation.

Being painted into a corner, where I strongly feel my animal urges of flight, or fight being brought out of me, yet also being cornered in away where fighting seems fruitless, due to the pieces of shit whom are involved and have way too much power and control, makes me feel as if I am up against a tank driven by a robot, while I am armed with a feather duster.

I know that I am not a good candidate for anti-depressant medications, because even very basic things can make me happy. When the sun is shining, and I’m in an outside caffe with a friend; going to a concert or other live performance; a good movie; a nice dinner out; flirting; or just reading a good book, I can be on top of the world.
Those who truly need anti-depressants (in my opinion) have difficulty being content and “happy,” even when life is good.

On the other hand, I see many people on medications, who just have a lot of shit in their lives. They get the meds, because it makes the difficulty not seem so bad.

If I was into conspiracy theories, I would think that anti-depressants are often used to keep the masses from getting truly fed up, and fighting back, instead of giving the medications to those who truly need them.

I’ve had two co-workers trying to convince me to go on anti-depressants (as they are) because it would make the job easier to deal with.
Well, fuck that. The job sucks and it involves figuratively, and literally dealing with shit. I want shit to smell like shit to me, and not like roses.
I don’t want to be content in an environment, by taking medications, that is a pit of discontent and stress.
It’s true that going the medication route, I might become less discontented with that particular situation, but I would lose the desire to work on getting the hell out of there.

As the IRS comes after me, for an exuberant amount of money that they wrongly claim I owe them I don’t want to pop some pills, and just go along with the program of working in a hell hole, merely for the purpose to pay their extortion fees.

What I am saying, is that FOR ME, my anger and stress comes from situations which create these emotions, and not from a possible chemical imbalance in my brain.
Ha ha, and before anyone suggests that I should try using Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, be assured that I am. Otherwise..
...well, I rather not get into that on here ;\)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#21395 - 03/02/09 12:41 PM Re: Psychiatry: usefull, or overrated? [Re: Ringmaster]
LordOf_illusions Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 31
Loc: Kansas
Overrated.

Psychiatry especially it's constituents reminds me of those quit smoking commercials you know with the pills and patches.

"I just don't have enough will power of my own to quit smoking these cigarettes that I know will bring me cancer and death if I keep using them but nonetheless I keep using them anyways because I'm so easily influenced and manipulated by others."

"Oh no, what shall I ever do?"

"I'm weak and powerless in that I need a outside influence to help do things for me because I'm so naive not to mention easily influenced because I suck up other people's demands like a sponge especially when it comes to market advertisement."

Can you see the parallel between a nicotine addict and a person in line with psychiatry?

And then there is the salesman for the pathetic ill equipped weak willed smoker much like how a psychiatrist is a salesman.

( Both sell states of illusional peace of mind.)

"Do you got a problem? I can fix it!"

"Allow me to help you since you are naive and weak willed."

"Allow me to make a profit and career out of your suffering."

"Allow me to have control over your life in that you lack the will to have power over it yourself."


Edited by LordOf_illusions (03/02/09 12:54 PM)

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