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#2407 - 11/29/07 08:02 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
You missed the point completely because you were obviously too busy orchestrating a defensive attack.

I also make it a rule never to assume or analyse. So the scared little boy is in your own head.

Oh and thanks for "letting that one slide" !!! Are you really that arrogant, or are you having a laugh at yourself?

Take a rescue remedy pastille and chill the hell out.
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#2428 - 11/29/07 09:20 PM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
Hmmmm….. the Satanic dilemma? Should I be nice to everyone, should I go out of my way to help people?
Altruism…. An interesting concept indeed?
I think we have to return to some basic observations in nature to get this into perspective, without having to compare Satanism with Christianity (a Satanic no no in itself)!
As animals we behave in certain ways to achieve certain types of attention or recognition. This attention and recognition qualifies us with status in many instances, the top one being that of potential breeding partner. If we are seen to be ‘kind and friendly’ we a seen to be non-threatening. If we are seen to be generous with our wealth we may be seen as being wealthy (or irresponsible depending on ones knowledge of ones finances). If we are seen in general terms as one who helps than we may be also seen as one worthy of being helped.
As animals we truly do not do anything that does not serve us individuals or as a species.
However, the real dilemma we are having in present times is that there are certain individuals (be they Christian or otherwise) who have made themselves the enemy of our species.
They have sold our flesh and future for a small profit. It is their Christian Muslim Judaic apocalyptic belief in the pointlessness of existence that has encouraged them to treat the earth like one big pay toilet!

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#2432 - 11/30/07 01:59 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Zakary]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
Perhaps I've been misunderstood. Sometimes it is difficult to get the full story on a screen.

All I was saying is that being a Satanist doesn't give you license to be an insensitive arrogant arsehole and not give a crap.

And that altruism isn't martyrdom. I wasn't saying "go trawl the streets looking for rambling hobo sitting in their own piss and shit to give all of your money to ", or did I? No I don't think so.


Edited by Circus_Hell (11/30/07 02:00 AM)
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#2433 - 11/30/07 03:32 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Circus_Hell]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
I'm a Satanist - and quite frankly I enjoy playing the "asshole" role. If you don't like it that's your problem and you'll have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

Satanists act on impulse - and me being an asshole is generally who I am. In the words of Jack Malebranche "Put up, or shut up!"
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#2435 - 11/30/07 07:27 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Ordellani]
Bid Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 25
Loc: Cardiff, UK
 Quote:
All I was saying is that being a Satanist doesn't give you license to be an insensitive arrogant arsehole and not give a crap.


Yes, it does. Completely. It gives me all the freedom I want, and I'm responsible for any consequences. There is no altruistic obligation hanging over my head.

It's so fucking weak to believe that people should go out of their way to help others. Do it if you want, but getting upset because I don't follow the same rules is your fault, not mine.

And my point about respecting strangers...I mean it as though it were a dichotomy of only either respect or disrespect. One need not give true, passionate respect to a stranger, but to disrespect someone before they've even proven they deserve it is going to be detrimental to your own progress. I'm polite with strangers in general, but as soon as they prove they deserve otherwise, I permit myself to be the arsehole they deserve to reckon with. Unless, of course, feigning politeness will help me in some way. Hail the freedom of Satan.

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#2436 - 11/30/07 09:12 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Bid]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
Not being polite to strangers upon first impression is counter-productive. I advocate respect upon first impression because you just never know how the said individual could possibly benefit you. I do, however, condone disrespect if you are not shown respect.
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#2437 - 11/30/07 11:25 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Ordellani]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Satanism gives you the license to be an asshole, it doesn't however make it mandatory. Treating people like shit rarely helps anyone so why do it? That's always been my opinion.

I treat people courteously when I meet them, after I've known them for a while they often earn my respect via things they do and say. Often they have bad qualities but I try to concentrate on the better qualities of people. If they do things that make me disrespect them they will likely never recover in my eyes. Someone who is closed minded for example would have to show that they have grown and changed, matured in a manner than has opened their eyes. Then I will have respect for them.

Either way, I tend to treat all people courteously as they can often benefit me in some manner. Those with my respect see a different side of me. They see me treating them with true respect, which is often bad as I'm more likely to tell someone I respect their downfalls and be more brutally honest with them than I would otherwise.
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#2445 - 11/30/07 03:02 PM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Circus_Hell]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"All I was saying is that being a Satanist doesn't give you license to be an insensitive arrogant arsehole and not give a crap."

Yes, it does. Most Satanist have the ability to think, and be aware, and choose what to give a Damn about.
I don't give a crap about a lot of petty insignificant shit, cause at the end of the day its not worth it.

As with the others who posted, I agree that my interactions with individuals depend on what is the best result/outcome for me.

How I treat my close friends is different from how I treat my aquaintances, and very different from how I treat those strangers that I do not know.

Dont ask how I treat/treated my stalkers.

If it doesn't affect you on a personal level why give the extra energy to care?

"And that altruism isn't martyrdom."
My point was that to some people its the same thing.

In the end its just a matter of what you the individual choose to care about/or do. Everyones reasons why or why not are different.

There is no law that says you have to give a shit about anything at all.

Morg
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#2448 - 11/30/07 04:49 PM 'Respect' [Re: Bid]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Bid
I also respect all strangers by default until they prove to me that they are unworthy of my respect (as opposed to the misanthropic other way round, where one feels people must earn their respect - an attitude I find to be detrimental to one's social success). Just remember that respect is lightyears away from love.


This is very close to my view.
I feel that respect is earned - however, it runs both ways.
Disrespect also has to be earned.

Semantic problems arise here because the word 'respect' is ambiguous and emotionally charged.
The dictionary.com definitions essentially boil down to these two revelant meanings of the word 'respect':

1. Esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: "I have great respect for her judgment."

2. Proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: "Respect for the elderly."

Esteem, the first kind of respect, is conditional. It depends on a person's relationship to oneself. Esteem is earned. Strangers can be considered neutral in terms of esteem.
This also has its antithesis, contempt, which is also earned and conditional. A person who acts like an asshole gains one's contempt, which may affect one's behaviour towards them (perhaps tempered by rational self-control).

Acceptance is the second kind of respect, translating into courtesy and acknowledgment in the social sphere.
Altruism is not even necessary here - treating fellow humans with courtesy and accepting the reality of who they are is necessary to some extent for the survival of the individual.

Nietzsche stressed the importance of respect for one's enemies.
This doesn't mean not kicking the shit out of them - should this be one's desired goal with all consequences of one's actions rationally taken into account - but merely accepting the reality of who and what they are, with their strengths as well as weaknesses.

As Nietzsche put it:
 Quote:

"Enemy" you shall say, but not "villain," "invalid" you shall say, but not "wretch," "fool" you shall say, but not "sinner."


Empathy is also important here - not to be confused with sympathy. Empathy means the ability to get inside a person's head and see things from their perspective, to understand their motivations and feelings. I needn't stress the old cliche 'know your enemy' - freeing oneself of prejudice of one's enemy can lead to a broader working knowledge of them - leading to personal power and insight in one's encounters with them, to be turned to one's advantage!


Edited by Mequa (11/30/07 04:53 PM)
Edit Reason: Link

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#2451 - 11/30/07 06:58 PM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Morgan]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Most Satanist have the ability to think


No. ALL Satanists have the ability to think. ALL humans have the ability to think. What most of societies back-wash lacks is the capacity.
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#2472 - 12/01/07 03:47 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Ordellani]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Jesus... I couldn't stand to read all that crap - but I tried...

How about this: Fuck you "Circus Hell"!! I understand your bullshit arguments, but I think you were missing a much larger perspective than you are capable of understanding. A "defensive attack" is a contradiction of terms - you make no sense.

Altruism, like "God", is dead. And, like "God", it never actually existed, and it never will. I'm recommending you start reading the New Testament again... 'cause that's where you got this crazy idea in the first place.

Good luck.

Everybody else, sorry - apologies all around, you are all fantastic.

David.
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#2475 - 12/01/07 02:47 PM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: daevid777]
hellbent666
Unregistered



Altruism has never been a xtian ideal! I've met more people of "other" religious persuasions that were the embodiment of altruism than I have met xtians that believe in altruism. What is so wrong with having such a positive quality such as this one? Does it make you feel Satanically inferior knowing that you have the capacity for unconditional kindness? Don't get me wrong, we do believe in kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates, but that's not what we mean by altruism. I think everyone deserves kindness until they show you a reason not to be. Would you want everyone being a jack-ass to you for no reason at all other than the fact that they feel that you don't deserve their kindness? I think that's absolutely ludicrous. Most people regardless of religious persuasion are straight up assholes to boot because they are only concerned about themselves. I thought we were a different breed. Shouldn't we aspire to be people that don't fit the common mold? Doing nice things for people is cool because no one else does it anymore. You either continue the cycle or you break it.
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#2476 - 12/01/07 03:49 PM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
Hmmmmmmmmm, is everyone in Texas as friendly as you daevid? And the "fuck you" comment, well thank you but you would certainly need to take me to dinner first ;\)

Edited by Circus_Hell (12/01/07 03:53 PM)
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#2483 - 12/02/07 01:04 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: ]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Your words are true, Hellbent666, I don't disagree.

I was merely playing "devil's advocate"... I do things all the time that would seem "altruistic", and sometimes I do them for no "reason" at all. I understand what you mean.

However, I was making an attempt at "introspection", looking at the things I might do, or others might do, for the "good" of another "human". Dissection, if you don't mind the term... microsociology maybe.

Like you, I have helped people "out of the goodness of my heart", with no expectations of reward or thanks... but if we look much closer... why? I'm truly not the asshole I may seem on these "virtual" pages, I just think we need to look at this thing objectively, and sincerely.

There are two words that can open up a whole can of shit here.

p.s. - as for "Satanist" - I'm no good, I'm a bad Satanist... I've taken the beautifully simple writings of Mr. LaVey, and created something altogether different - I'm a "Protestant Satanist" - yeah, that sounds good.
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#2484 - 12/02/07 01:10 AM Re: Altruism and Satanism [Re: Circus_Hell]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas


I insulted my self and you by that comment - I am sorry.

No, people in Texas are much more dangerous... we carry big guns and wear spurs.

Honestly, I wanted to pull the plug on that post - and I dreaded it ever going out. More apologies to you...

And, Bravo - nice response.

Yes, dinner first my dear, I would try my best to be a gentleman. I can cook as well... tell me your favorite, and I will serve it up fresh as I suck on the foot that is imbeded in my mouth.

Good show. Shame on me.

David.
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