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#15544 - 12/05/08 04:04 PM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Stefanie]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Having argued this in the past, I believe it doesn't matter how old you are to start researching about anything to tell the truth. Age doesn't hold you back from having certain beliefs. Sure you may have better understanding at a later age, but what matters more is your level of maturity and ability to comprehend what it is your looking into.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#15546 - 12/05/08 04:42 PM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Mike]
Anthony West Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Germany
I'm 17 as well, but I allow my parents to have certain things their way for the sake that my siblings are either too young or too immature to understand my beliefs. In addition, I do it out of pure respect for my parents.

But, overall, I feel that if one desires to become a Satanist, no one should stand in the way of it. Although the whole idea of "you can believe whatever you want............so long as the majority is down with it" is very real, we've been long past actual persecution (ex. burning at the stake). It's one's responsibility to be more mature than the next guy, so I try to live up to that and tolerate others, so long as they don't mess with me.
_________________________
There can be but little liberty on earth while men worship a tyrant in heaven
-Robert Green Ingersoll

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#15548 - 12/05/08 06:17 PM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Anthony West]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Anthony West
It's one's responsibility to be more mature than the next guy, so I try to live up to that and tolerate others, so long as they don't mess with me.


And this is very commendable, indicating that you've made an adult decisicion to study and to look into Satanism, or indeed any other philosophy, in a mature and responsible manner, not automatically deciding that because you have read one book and liked the way the words came together in your mind, you're the reincarnation of Anton LaVey. The problem with many of the youth who decide that they're Satanists is that they've read the book and, having read the book, they assume that now they are qualified to be called a Satanist.

Satanism, in the LaVeyan concept, has just as much, if not more, to do with individual responsibility and the development one's personal skillsets to become not only as asset to the Church as a visible model of what can be, but to oneself as well. Any fool on the block can dress in black and remember a few lines from a book. Millions upon millions of Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc., do it every day. And there are some inspirational passages in The Satanic Bible that you SHOULD know by heart.

But chief amongst the things one should learn is the phrase RESPONSIBILITY TO THE RESPONSIBLE. It weaves its way through all levels of life in the mind of The Satanist. Certainly, you respect those who are responsible enough to take care of their own life. They thrive, they excel, and become those "for whom it is measured," meaning; those other people look to as role models of success.

One of the responsibilities of youth is to learn and to question one's learning so that they don't become self deluded, thinking that they KNOW. They have an idea. They have SOME experiences, but the experiences one has as a youth are cloistered because as a youth, seldom are you actually "on your own." There are still the failsafes of parents and schools and mentors. Your life's learning is often colored, at least in part by these influences. What one finds of life beyond these influences, when they're "in the real world," of paying bills and making a living and being the one who they now have to be responsible to quite often changes even their most cherished beliefs. Life sometimes unlearns all we have learned about ourselves.

Sorry to be so long winded, but this is all to say that I applaud those youths who would study Satanism... or any other philosophical life choice that interests them. But I would urge them to hold off on declaring what they are until they reach that age of maturity and self sufficiency when they CAN be on their own and delve into those things that interest them without the tainting and coloring influences of family, teachers, mentors and peer groups. You've got time. Life is long and values change. What I KNEW at 15, 16 and 17 is quite a bit different than what I KNEW at 20, 21 and 25. At 30, I was pretty sure. At 50, I knew I had made the right choices FOR ME... at almost 60, I hope you make the right choices for YOU.

Just don't rush it. Enjoy your youth.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#15552 - 12/05/08 07:43 PM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

What I KNEW at 15, 16 and 17 is quite a bit different than what I KNEW at 20, 21 and 25. At 30, I was pretty sure. At 50, I knew I had made the right choices FOR ME... at almost 60, I hope you make the right choices for YOU.

Wisdom.

I have called myself a Satanist since I was 16. Back then, I saw a reflection of my core nature in the Satanic Bible and thought it fit. In my particular case it seems I was right, as it has been 15 years since that point. But how I view myself, the world, and my Satanism has changed dramatically since that point.

Age, time, experience, all give a person a deeper understanding of anything. I see the youngsters with a visible 'black spark' that has not yet been blown into a flame by life and I see what I once was. I see them speaking as I once spoke, motivated by the same things I was once motivated by. Experiencing the early parts of the trip that is Satanism.
These same people don't really understand when I talk about the deeper aspects that can only come with understanding and time. They are just not there yet.

And for the younger crowd that have been screaming 'agism', let me say this: raw intelligence is a have or have not situation. Age does not alter that. What age does alter is the way you use that intelligence based off perceptions being changed. This is not a matter of old versus young but a matter of process.

I at 31 see things different that the ones here in their 40s , who in turn are a little bit different than those in their 50s and 60s. I don't think the process can end as long as you live. (Barring confining yourself to a dark room for the rest of your life.) At least I hope not.

As a disclaimer though I feel I must add that I don't think age, in and of itself, provides wisdom or understanding. Time is a factor but if that time belongs to a dullard or someone that does not value learning or improving (which is most people sadly) it will not be of much use. It is easy to look at a lot of older people, druggies, losers, or even that sweet little old mormon lady that knocks on your door and say 'HAH! I'm smarter than THEY are, and much younger!', but that is neither here nor there.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#15578 - 12/06/08 03:54 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree that age doesn't bring wisdom just by getting older.
Just as it doesn't make people get smarter. Age only makes people get older.

Frankly I don't even like the word wisdom too much. But what aging does is give you the time to experience and think, to undergo, conquer and explore.

None ever debates that certain sports or professions need practice to be good at. You ain't going to become a good mountaineer just by knowing the theory, as you ain't going to be a good doctor just by going to school. Doing it over and over and over again, being confronted with your limitations, with the limitations of your ideas, with the problems and overcome those is what makes you good at something. And like in everything, there will always be people that fail at something or just don't fit with it and have to find another direction. I'm pretty sure there are wannabe doctors whom, in their and their patients best interest, swap professions and become truckdrivers. As there are mountaineers whom have fear of heights and find another hobby.

It's the same with Satanism. You might like it, you might even think you tune with it, but time or age or experience or practice will reveal how very you it is.

How can anyone below a certain age have a good grasp of something when only being a split-second confronted to it? Seriously, not too many years ago, some where playing with their dolls and now they embrace a might is right philosophy. That's all nice and dandy but it requires a depth to understand and that depth will only become visible due to aging with it.

And yes there are old farts being incredible dumb but talking from a satanic perspective, aging to us goes together with a lot of hard work. We generally don't tend to sit on our ass until it is wrinkled. We, during that period, strive for shit.

Like I said before, evidence is provided on this board. I don't even have to look at a profile from a noob to see who is around what age when they register here. I'm not stating all kids are stupid but most noobs ask the noob questions or debate out of a noob context. They might not even know it and think they're pretty amazing but fact is, they aren't. I don't even mind them asking noob questions as long as it isn't the stuff that could have easily been answered by themselves if they wouldn't be so goddamn lazy.

Still, there are some that might show potential and the ones surviving the first heat at least deserve some respect from me but showing potential and some backbone doesn't automatically imply they are the shit. Fact is, most their ideas or philosophy is rather flat and it'll take time to get the depth out of it.

Any youngster out there has all the opportunities to prove me wrong at any time. There is a whole board filled with subjects you can go crazy upon and show what stuff you are about. You can put all the depth and understanding you have in every post and reply you make. Do that instead of demanding respect just for claiming a label.

D.

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#15585 - 12/06/08 05:26 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Diavolo]
Anthony West Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Germany
 Quote:
And this is very commendable, indicating that you've made an adult decisicion to study and to look into Satanism, or indeed any other philosophy, in a mature and responsible manner, not automatically deciding that because you have read one book and liked the way the words came together in your mind, you're the reincarnation of Anton LaVey.


Why thank you, Jake999.

Although I've made an adult decision to properly research various religions, philosophies, stc. One must remember how time changes you.

 Quote:
What I KNEW at 15, 16 and 17 is quite a bit different than what I KNEW at 20, 21 and 25. At 30, I was pretty sure. At 50, I knew I had made the right choices FOR ME... at almost 60, I hope you make the right choices for YOU.


I distinctly remember that, when I was only was only a few years younger than my current age, I was intolerant of (believe it or not) non-Christians. I was a religious fanatic that would carry a bible to school in his bag, read it at lunch, and open it every chance I got. Hell, that was a textbook for life.

It was only when about 2 years ago came that I saw exactly how short life was. After wrestling and experiencing a seizure to be rushed to the hospital and tested, I found out that my life was being threatened by cancer for the past 5 years previous. Undergoing 6 months of chemotherapy and a couple weeks of radiation, I said to myself that life was just too short to be obsessed with hatred and intolerance of other that haven’t truly done anything (themselves) to invoke my wrath.

Today, I’m a Satanist who is also a pacifist and spreads the word about peace, but doesn't by any means force my ideals of beliefs on others unless they desire to know them

On a trip to Thailand, once upon a time, I met a Buddhist monk who I asked “What do Buddhists view other religions as?”

He thought for a moment then responded. “I won’t speak for all Buddhists in the worlds, so I’ll just speak for myself. There are many paths to enlightenment, whether it be through religion of philosophy, enlightenment can only be reached when you’ve come to peace with yourself.”

I didn’t feel that he had answered my question at the time. Now that I'm older, wiser, and more intelligent, I realize that that was more than enough of an answer to suffice.

How does this relate to Satanism?

There are many paths to enlightenment, it's clear that many of the people on this site have chosen Satanism as I have. But that's not the only way to reach it.

In addition to the wise monk's words, don't speak for everyone who follows ways similar or exactly like yours. He refused to speak for all Buddhists. I've learned from this and attempt to not speak for all Satanists at once.

Basically, as you grow older, you learn more and gain experience that ultimately leads to you changing, whether you want to or realize it. In addition, enlightenment is simply peace of mind; peace with yourself and peace with the world around you.

All apologies for dragging that out so long.


Edited by Anthony West (12/06/08 05:27 AM)
Edit Reason: Puncuation and spelling
_________________________
There can be but little liberty on earth while men worship a tyrant in heaven
-Robert Green Ingersoll

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#15597 - 12/06/08 06:18 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Anthony West]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
See, this is what I am talking about. You are articulate but it doesn't hide the naivity at some levels.
Now don't take this too personal, I am getting rather blunt.

This peace and Satanism symbiosis is rather dumb. There is an expression 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' but what you do here is just put the same baby in a different tub.

Satanism and peace go as well together as Ghandi and Stalin dancing the tango. Satanists are never at peace with themselves, neither with humanity, nor the world. I'd say that peace is an illusion and just doesn't exist in the satanic context. I'd say it doesn't exist at all.
It might make sense in your mind but to Satanism peace is what water was to the wicked witch.

Now, this isn't the post to delve too deep into it, but I invite you to write down your thoughts in a new post and I'll happily tear it apart. ;\)

D.

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#15598 - 12/06/08 06:24 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
Satanists are never at peace with themselves, neither with humanity, nor the world. I'd say that peace is an illusion and just doesn't exist in the satanic context.

I'd say: speak for yourself. I'm quite at peace with myself. And with the world (i.e feeling indifferent from what's all going on..).

Concept peace is quite discussable.. I quite share the opinion peace is an illusion.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15599 - 12/06/08 06:30 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Like I said, I'm not going to delve deeper into it here, he can, if he wants, make a post about it.

You embrace the satanic label without knowing the depth of it. Of course you argue here because you think you know your stuff, and partly because your emotional nuts hurt from me at times putting my foot on them. Get over it, I'm not a hugger.

D.

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#15600 - 12/06/08 07:28 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Like I said, I'm not going to delve deeper into it here, he can, if he wants, make a post about it.

You embrace the satanic label without knowing the depth of it. Of course you argue here because you think you know your stuff, and partly because your emotional nuts hurt from me at times putting my foot on them. Get over it, I'm not a hugger.

D.

Was that part adressed to me? Because in that case you are quite talking bullshit. I've said it before and I keep repeating it; I embrace nothing at all. And I never claimed I know my stuff. Learn to read before making assumptions. And indeed you are not a hugger, you're more someone who wants attention and wants to feel special. Get over it, you don't look tough, more like a wimp hiding it's weakness.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15601 - 12/06/08 07:39 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course you embrace, most of your replies I can predict because they are typical euro-opinions infested by our culture. Been there, done that, it's why I state that with age comes depth, if not only by realizing we reproduce a lot of shit fed to us.

And I don't want to feel special, I AM special. Ask my mommy.
If you doubt it, feel free to set up a date. I might even bring flowers.

D.

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#15602 - 12/06/08 07:41 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Diavolo]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
I think you're special, Diavolo.
Can I hug you?
:P
_________________________
WWAD?

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#15603 - 12/06/08 08:20 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Of course you embrace, most of your replies I can predict because they are typical euro-opinions infested by our culture. Been there, done that, it's why I state that with age comes depth, if not only by realizing we reproduce a lot of shit fed to us.

And I don't want to feel special, I AM special. Ask my mommy.
If you doubt it, feel free to set up a date. I might even bring flowers.

D.

Hey, Most American responses are also predictable.. High bullshit-factor in it. Mostly straight-forward physic violation of a person. Got the slight impression there are few who really understand the true power of psychology without cursing.

How nice of you to bring flowers.. I prefer roses.. they taste the best.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#15605 - 12/06/08 09:54 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Dimitri]
Anthony West Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Germany
 Quote:
In addition to the wise monk's words, don't speak for everyone who follows ways similar or exactly like yours. He refused to speak for all Buddhists. I've learned from this and attempt to not speak for all Satanists at once.


 Quote:
Satanists are never at peace with themselves


One thing that I HAVE learned about life, is never speak for others. Satanism, like any religion or philosophy, is viewed differently by different people. I promise you that Satanism is different and plays different roles in various people's lives.

Like Satanism, "at peace" can mean a completely different thing from person to person.

I'm at peace with myself and the world around me. I've accepted that I'm a bisexual, slightly overweight, geek who enjoys music beyond all means. I've also accepted that the world around me is dishonest, sexist, racist, and other unfortunate things. By my definition and view on reality, I'm at peace.

(I'm actually working on an essay on "enlightenment" that you can feel free to tear up for yourself, Diavolo. I'll contact you once I post it and give you the link.)


Edited by Anthony West (12/06/08 09:57 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
There can be but little liberty on earth while men worship a tyrant in heaven
-Robert Green Ingersoll

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#15612 - 12/06/08 11:07 AM Re: Teen Satanists [Re: Anthony West]
Phaethon Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 78
 Originally Posted By: Anthony West



I'm at peace with myself and the world around me. I've accepted that I'm a bisexual, slightly overweight, geek who enjoys music beyond all means. I've also accepted that the world around me is dishonest, sexist, racist, and other unfortunate things. By my definition and view on reality, I'm at peace.


Indeed, that's how I am too. I am also young, but for the short 16 years of my life, I do believe that I am currently at peace with myself.
A Satanism isn't Just one spot in the world of mindsets, it is a path, the Left Hand Path. The reason why younger people seem to not understand Satanism (or other philosophies) as well or the same as you do, is because they are at a different point on the road of life. A person who is older may have experienced more love, hate, loss and gain, all of which helps build them as a person. But this is true with many pursuits. People may have an undying zeal for something, but then an experience changes all they believe.

Now to the older or more experienced members here, may I just say that they younger people here may be going through what you have in the past, when you started your road of Satanism. I'm not saying be nice, but just recognize who is attempting to progress, and bitch slap those who are stuck in their faltering ideologies.
_________________________
My God & I are one & the same,
We have the same face we have the same name.

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