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#1487 - 11/06/07 02:40 PM Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Okay, maybe I am not understanding his website.
After all the hype I decided to check him out again.

The man is ProLife, antiabortion and wants to get rid of Roe verses Wade.

Doesn't that matter?

All by himself he can't get rid of the IRS, get us out of the war situation, or make government smaller. Unless I am clearly mistaken, at this point, he can't change our finance system either as President.

He can make suggestion in regards to the above, but in the end, it is the Senate, and House of Reps which make those things come to pass.

At this point, it really doesn't matter, the country is screwed no matter who wins. It will most likely be a male republician canidate because this country no matter what fanfare will never elect a woman as president.

Maybe Bloomberg should run after all.

Morg
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#1489 - 11/06/07 03:14 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
He is exactly what he seems to be. At least if you go by his voting record. He votes consistently against larger government and in favor of personal freedom. He is for removing foolish bans like smoking, gambling, seatbelt laws, ETC.

Your right that he will be powerless in office, but I intend to vote for him in order to send a message.

My Message: "We pay your salary, Listen to us or GTF OUT! Wont go then we will throw you out."


I'm just tired Morgan. Tired of these politicians disregarding the people they were hired to serve. These guys have become very blatant and need to be reminded that we can vote them out. I'm hoping that Ron Paul will help us to send that message.

If we don't things will only get worse. My only fear is that Joe and Jane AverageShmuck wont wake up in time to save our fragile republic.

Chris
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#1496 - 11/06/07 04:47 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: MCSA TEK]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I can agree with you about being tired of the bs.
I dont see him getting the nomination, but stranger things have happened.

My simple problem is about Pro choice.

He thinks its okay for anyone to buy guns, kill themselves, and not pay taxes, but a woman has no right to choose what happens to her own body.

I have a big problem with that.

Why do we have to send a message at the expense of womens rights that we need a change in the way the government is run?

Morgan

This current government has viagra is covered by medicaid, but not birth control pills. Its okay for men to fuck with gods will about not being able to have sex, but women still have no choice, and should be chattle to some people. If men got pregnant would abortion be a sacrament?
(you all know what I mean)
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#1508 - 11/06/07 09:30 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
Exactly. What I've noticed is that all of the people I know that are supporting Paul are male. They don't have the same attitude about abortion, for the most part, that women have. My biggest issue is abortion rights, especially after realizing how much they cost. I can't support a candidate who is anti abortion, no matter how many other things they support.

Edited by undeadridinghood (11/06/07 09:31 PM)

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#1511 - 11/06/07 10:11 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
What does his stance on abortion have to do with it. A president isn't a dictator or king. He has no power to abolish laws what so ever.

Changes in laws has to be done through congress. Both Reagan and Bush Senior were anti abortion and nothing changed what so ever. You still have your rights.


Chris
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#1516 - 11/06/07 11:59 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: MCSA TEK]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
My, I'm always amazed at the ease in which men can discuss the abortion issue...so cut and dry.

Give them hell, Morg. Don't let anyone write your issues away by stating "You still have your rights."
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#1522 - 11/07/07 08:37 AM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Octavius]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
My point was very legitimate. Reagan and Bush #1, ran the USA for 12 years. They didn't have the power to abolish abortion. Its not within the power of the presidency to abolish US laws.

Besides, we all know that abortion is population control. Not to mention that there is a million dollar industry consisting of doctors, nurses, councilors, and a vast support staff of jobs and occupations all built around the abortion system. The chances of the US government banning it is almost nil.

I seriously believe that these are all moot points. The status quo leadership intends to take our rights, not support them. Because of this, Paul will either be marginalized or permanently removed. If these were my plans for world conquest, thats what I would do.

Chris

Chris


Edited by MCSA TEK (11/07/07 08:46 AM)
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#1525 - 11/07/07 11:54 AM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: MCSA TEK]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
 Quote:
I'm just tired Morgan. Tired of these politicians disregarding the people they were hired to serve. These guys have become very blatant and need to be reminded that we can vote them out. I'm hoping that Ron Paul will help us to send that message.

If we don't things will only get worse. My only fear is that Joe and Jane AverageShmuck wont wake up in time to save our fragile republic.



Same here. Exactly.
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#1527 - 11/07/07 12:12 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: MCSA TEK]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You are wrong.

He as president has the power to appoint judges to the supreme court.

The ones you mentioned including this Bush has packed the court with men who share their views.

It went from a common sense court to one that that is leading far to the republican christian views.

At this point, it is only a matter of time till women lose that right. If you follow the state laws as well, you will find that one state in particular has only 1 abortion clinic that boarders another state. In a few states, you have to go to an appointment watch a sonaragram of the fetus you want to get rid of, leave, and come back the next day for the proceedure. This after running the gambit of violent, pushy antiabortionist.


I am just tired of all this antiabortionist complaining about how its not the babies fault, but just dont care what the woman has to endure. Imo, if the child is not wanted its better off dead than suffering through violence, negilect, and abuse.

Morg
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#1535 - 11/07/07 02:33 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
delusion Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 77
Loc: hawaii
You know Morgan his stances on abortion and his blatant Christian flag waving are a turn off to me. However comparatively speaking he is still miles ahead of the others to me.

Someone had mentioned how many men they saw that are in support of Ron Paul which is interesting. One thing that I notice is how many people plan to vote for Hillary simply because she is a woman. I was at a poker game the other night and an acquaintance of mine spent about 20 min. rambling about how because she is a woman she will bring a positive change to our cuntry. All I can say is wow. I guess the point of that is that there are people who do vote based on superstition, a smile, the presence or absence of a penis, ET all. While some actually listen to what the candidate is saying. We should all aspire to be the later.

Hillary seems like another hand puppet to me. I watched as one reporter asked her about her ideas about this countries future war agenda and I swear the woman might as well have said, "well, I'm not sure they haven't told me what my position is yet... I'll get back to you."

Like I said his abortion stance was an issue for me but I think understanding his full agenda brings more light to that. His position of smaller government I think says that while he personally has feelings about it he plans to leave it to the states to decide on the legality, again, smaller government right. Also I watched a great interview on google that touched on that. His answer was really interesting and shed a lot of light on that touchy subject for me. here it is.

Another thing that is important about Ron Paul's candidacy is that unlike the other candidates he has gotten so many people excited in the process. As well as given what seems to be thousands and thousands of people a voice. This is true for my self for sure because the things he brings to the table are exactly the things that I am concerned with the others republican or democrat just say the same old shit and seem to be speaking to the same brain dead drones.

I guess we'll see.

Delusion

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#1546 - 11/07/07 05:57 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I think Paul is morally opposed to abortion, but considers it to be a local issue rather than a federal one; abortion should be dealt with on a municipal basis. It seems that Paul doesn't even believe that the federal government has legitimate authority over most issues anyways.

I suppose his stance is genuine, but being explicitly opposed to abortion helps when running for the GOP nomination.

I think the majority of libertarians of all stripes are pro-abortion, but the issue really hinges on whether "that thing in your womb" is a person or not. If it's a person then the principle of non-aggression applies to it and abortion would effectively constitute a coercive act: murder, to be precise.

If we posit that zygotes and fetuses are persons then of course it would be immoral for anyone to have an abortion, just as it is immoral for anyone to initiate coercive force against another human being.


Edited by ballbreaker (11/07/07 06:02 PM)

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#1578 - 11/08/07 02:05 AM Priorities. [Re: Morgan]
Dakindas Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 24
Loc: The Web

Ron Paul is a pediatrician, has taken the Hippocratic Oath and actually honors it.

Several states have enacted so-called "trigger laws" which "would take effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned." Those states include Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota. Other states have passed laws to maintain the legality of abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and those states include California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada and Washington.

Ballbreaker is quite right.

Priorities.
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#1599 - 11/08/07 05:03 PM Re: Priorities. [Re: Dakindas]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Ron Paul is a pediatrician, has taken the Hippocratic Oath and actually honors it."
That may be true, but there are so many people that are anti-abortion but pro-death penality. Nothing really makes sense anymore. I dont remember is he pro-death penality too?

--------------------------
I guess its a shame that at this point Bloomberg isn't running, but things could change.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/68113/page/1


CAMPAIGN 2008
The Revolutionary
He has the money and the message to upend 2008. Michael Bloomberg's American odyssey.

Just some more stuff to think about,
Morg
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#1606 - 11/08/07 08:22 PM Re: Maybe I am missing something re: Ron Paul [Re: Morgan]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
RP takes the conservative libertarian stance on abortion. He would appoint 'constructionist' judges to the SCOTUS. In time Roe would be challenged in court and the SCOTUS would declare it a States Rights (10 Amendment) issue. The individual states would then have the power to pass laws governing abortion.

In other words, in places like NY, abortion would remain fully legal, a fundamental civil right and perhaps a sacrament if not actually a requirement for citizenship. In the deep south it could be made illegal.

Abortion and 'when life begins' really needs it's own thread. However, given a field really bad political choices for POTUS, you could do far worse than RP.
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