Page 2 of 3 <123>
Topic Options
#15011 - 11/28/08 01:24 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Fabiano]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano
Regarding Plato and his ideas of "Good" , "Evil", etc notice that's a very good basis on which Xian build their views on.

The duality of Good vs Evil actually came from Zoroastrianism rather than Plato (who instead had a strange concept of 'Good' with no opposite).

Many other Xian concepts are distinctly Platonic (and bullshit). The concept of God as a transcendent Higher Goodness (also Beauty and Truth) existing in a spiritual realm; man as an inferior reflection of this being's goodness and possessing an immortal soul; the dualism between soul/spirit and body/matter; an insistence of social values above egoism. All straight out of Plato.

Christians also butchered the Greek concept of the Logos, once a principle of cosmic order through which the mind could grasp. They turned it into a fucking personality (spiritual) which literally incarnated as a man (Jesus) once in human history. That's a step of thousands of years backwards, from the beginnings of scientific enquiry to moronic superstition.

 Quote:
Democrite had more materialist views. It's not a surprise the Xian Church promoted Plato and tried to burry Democrit philosophy...

Not to mention the rational egoism of Epicurus and his school, who followed Democritus' materialism, and cleverly turned around Socrates' dialectical method of debate, to try and devise the best way to happiness for the INDIVIDUAL instead of just an abstract 'good'.
Dante reserved a special place in Hell for these bastards... \:D


Edited by Mequa (11/28/08 01:42 PM)
Edit Reason: Some additions

Top
#15013 - 11/28/08 01:27 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Richard Dawkins defined “meme” as a unit of cultural inheritance.

A word like good is a cultural unit.
It is of course contextual but when linking good to another word, we trigger cultural ideas.

If a word like beautiful and woman are combined, we will encounter rather universal ideas -like hip-waist ratio and symmetry- but at the same time cultural concepts upon beauty. What we deem beautiful now is not the same as what was considered beautiful a couple of hunderds ago.

Of course christians linked good to god and evil to satan but we do essentially the same. The memeplex that takes an important role in our mind, satan in this case, is not too different from the memeplex that has an important role in a christian's mind; god. And as all people do, that what is so important in our mind, is linked to the word good.

D.

Top
#15014 - 11/28/08 01:36 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
I write better than I speak, for the most part, as when I'm speaking with people, I tend to tailor my speech patterns to the situation and the company I'm with. Sometimes that can almost be schizophrenic.

I wouldn't say it's schizo. It's just using lesser magic.

I can be very articulate and well spoken, but 'letting it all hang out', vocabulary wise, doesn't always serve me. If I am with younger people, say, using their slang and speech patterns to a certain extent just happens naturally. Most people live in a very base level of existence; TV, Sports, Beer, traffic, the weather.Overwhelming people with big words and even bigger thoughts generally results only in blank stares and awkward pauses. It's all about the situational context.


Edited by Dan_Dread (11/28/08 01:38 PM)
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#15015 - 11/28/08 01:40 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree that language is a source of power but language changes a lot, so proper usage might totally depend on the situation it is used.
If I see how the kids of my partner type and what words they use, I get a bit freaky. It seems like a dumbed down version of normal language but in a way it isn't. In their culture it is a perfect normal language and the medium defines the language. Spoken, written, cellphone, chat or forum language all seem to differ although the essence is the same.
Even the official languages are subject to change, in my lifetime I think I have seen at least two or three revisions of Dutch at the level of writing.

In the end, we are not capable of properly using our language because at some point we'll get stuck in our language. The older we get, the harder it is to move with the changes.

And then we got the problem of foreign languages. I know my limitations with English and no matter how much I regret it, a language that isn't your native tongue will always be limited.

D.

Top
#15050 - 11/28/08 05:13 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Meq]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
On the subject of 'transmission', I touched upon this while studying hypnosis. Many mystical traditions have a similar concept to this. With hypnosis, it is essential that the hypnotist is in a calm mental state if they would hope to induce it in others.
It is certainly true that a person in an extremely calm yet alert mental state (such as following extended meditation) can have an impact on the consciousness of others without words, drawing them towards such a state by merely being in his presence. And this can result in clearer thinking and hence the potential for wisdom, which can perhaps be seen as transmission of knowledge (though not in the literal sense).


I never experienced hypnosis but practiced meditation. I might be wrong, but I see a link with the decompression chamber. Mediation induces an anti-intellectual perception of reality (alike disconnecting the frontal cortex). What do you think, am I wrong ?

Top
#15060 - 11/28/08 06:52 PM Re: The essence of language. [Re: Fabiano]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Notions of "good" or "evil" may differ from person to person. Evil is really just another word for bad, but it comes with connotations of being the result of the influence of some supernatural force. This force is commonly reffered to as a devil or satan. This makes evil more of faith based religous idea, thus losing any credibility.

Many consider what Hitler did to be evil. To him it wasn't evil at all. He truly believed what he was doing to be a good thing. I am not condoning what he did just using it as an example. I dont belive anything is good or evil, it just is.

The person who gives half of their paycheck to charity and considered to be a "good" person is just as capable of going on a killing spree as the serial killer, who is considered to be "evil, is capable of loving a puppy.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#15081 - 11/29/08 03:48 AM Intellectual Decompression [Re: Fabiano]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
I would say "non-intellectual perception of reality" is more accurate to describe a meditative state.
"Anti-" implies discursive reasoning (this vs. that), while this is exactly what is left behind when meditating.

I would say meditation is not so much a means of heightening consciousness (as preached by Eastern and New Age religions) as a means of bypassing it, allowing humans to get a glimpse of a more primeval and animalistic feel of things, before words come in to shape our perceptions.

In my view, both meditation (bypassing thought) AND rational discourse has its place.
Reason is a tool, the source of most human power, to be used and developed - and ignored at one's peril.
But it is precisely those who have the most developed reason who could benefit from a spot of meditation - to regain that 'wordless' glance at things one had as a small child.
Cooling down one's over-heated mind while still focused and aware.
Perhaps this gives the frontal cortex time to rest and 'recharge'? Many people who meditate find they can think clearer after and feel more alert.

This would also apply to other meditative, hypnotic or ritualistic practices, including LaVeyan Satanic ritual (if done correctly).
Intellectual decompression indeed.
My view is that the best method is that which works for the individual.

Top
#15082 - 11/29/08 04:17 AM Re: The essence of language. [Re: mutt mutton]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: mutt mutton
diferent types of evil
i guess some of the most evil you can experience is the bad things that happen to you but some things can be evilly good like getting laid by the hottest girl or man you want
that could be awesomely evil
hail!!!!!!!!
satan

Hmm, experiencing bad things isn't considered evil. You are just a little unlucky then. Getting laid by a hot girl/boy on the other hand is being very lucky.

And in general I agree with what the others said here. Most people don't know what power most words have when used. Also is language a very powerfull thing to use; written and spoken. You can say something but automatically people will make unnecesary assumptions. Like when speaking about a certain subject you know a thing or 2 about, like some sort of religion for example, Some people will think you follow the religions philosophy.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#15098 - 11/29/08 10:38 AM Re: Intellectual Decompression [Re: Meq]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
"Anti-" implies discursive reasoning (this vs. that), while this is exactly what is left behind when meditating.
Do you mean the decompression chamber is about discursive reasoning ?

I would have used non-intellectual rather than anti-intellectual for meditation. On this I agree with you.

I used anti- because of this quote from TSB :

 Quote:
The formalized beginning and end of the ceremony acts as a dogmatic, anti-intellectual device, the purpose of which is to disassociate the activities and frame of reference of the outside world from that of the ritual chamber, where the whole will must be employed. This facet of the ceremony is most important to the intellectual, as he especially requires the "decompression chamber" effect of the chants, bells, candles, and other trappings, before he can put his pure and willful desires to work for himself, in the projection and utilization of his imagery.


Edited by Fabiano (11/29/08 10:40 AM)

Top
#15212 - 11/30/08 10:47 PM Re: Intellectual Decompression [Re: Fabiano]
Munki1 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 28
Wow you folks really went into this!

Thanks, I'm learning alot.

Top
#16493 - 12/18/08 08:50 PM Re: Different types of evil? [Re: Munki1]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Evil as defined by the Oxford/American dictionary means, 'embodying or associated with the forces of the Devil.' According to each of us as to the perspective we wish to take, a situation may be construed as either Evil or some other way. By being a Satanist (I'm presuming) signifies your alligning yourself with Evil. For example, a Satanist holds onto "the Satanic Bible" as the bedrock for one's existence. There is no indication in the writing that a Satanist would not adhere to morales and principles. If you get the urge to rip the finger nails off a person, you're having an episode that has to do with mental health... not Satanism. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with love. After all, in the dictionary it means 'having a deep affection for something or someone.' In my impression, a Satanist would not go around saying he/she loves, but rather RESPECTS.

Just a few words to the wise.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#16527 - 12/19/08 12:36 PM Re: Different types of evil? [Re: paolo sette]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
a Satanist holds onto "the Satanic Bible" as the bedrock for one's existence.
Please tell me how it is the bedrock for one's existance. Just because a book conveys suggestions and ideas of philosophy doesn't mean that it is the law, to believe such would be foolish.

 Quote:
there is nothing wrong with love
I don't think that you will find anyone who will dispute such a statement with you. While there is nothing wrong with love towards those who deserve it, the problem would be ATTEMPTING to love those who truely do not deserve that love that is not love that is just a person trying to decieve themselves. A person shouldn't use the word love unless truely deserved.

"JUST A WORD TO THE WISE"
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

Top
#16541 - 12/19/08 08:23 PM Re: Different types of evil? [Re: Ringmaster]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Just because a book conveys suggestions and ideas of philosophy doesn't mean that it is the law

There is the law, and there is inherent disposition.

 Quote:

While there is nothing wrong with love towards those who deserve it, the problem would be ATTEMPTING to love those who truely do not deserve that love that is not love that is just a person trying to decieve themselves. A person shouldn't use the word love unless truely deserved.

Well said....aside from the total lack of spellcheck.
;\)
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#16550 - 12/19/08 11:39 PM Re: Different types of evil? [Re: Dan_Dread]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Dan Dread and ringmaster, I must've touched something by replying to the original query. Both of you find that I exhalted Dr. LaVey's words by making them the 'bedrock'. It sounds as if you find it a bit awkward. Well, I did. There is good reason, too. Dr. LaVey was proposing a philosophical religion with rubrics attached in a formalized setting (i.e. LaVey was describing the basis of Satanism). I've accepted his writings (i.e. with the mentality he delineated), and I'm forging ahead- building on the written words. If you agree with me, that's fine. If you don't, and have other things you want to add- please, do. You both have to agree with me on this point... 'you have to start somewhere.' Begin with LaVey, for the plain reason that he made it year 0 in 1966 ce.

I find a problem with 'love', and that is brought to the forefront with TSB. A better word is respect.

666.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#16552 - 12/20/08 12:06 AM Re: Different types of evil? [Re: paolo sette]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Why are you speaking my name when I have not addressed you?

You say you must have 'touched something' in me or that I find an opinion that you hold 'awkward' as if I have ever even given an iota of thought to the drivel you attempt to present as intellectual.
Ok so you like Anton LaVey. What else?

666? Hah.

Thanks for the laughs junior.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
Page 2 of 3 <123>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.029 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 29 queries. Zlib compression disabled.