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#25675 - 06/15/09 08:39 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Meh. Another one weeds himself out.

If god is 'everything' why not just say 'everything'?

If you hold a belief that all that is is actually part in parcel to some sort of living entity you are as fruity as any other theist out there.

Theism is theism, faith is faith, it's all anathema to Satanism.

'Satanists' are of the sort that innately understand this.
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#25677 - 06/15/09 09:17 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Tacking on to Dan...

What is being said, if you'd take the time to actually READ it, is that MAN HAS ALWAYS CREATED HIS OWN GODS... they're not real. They are REPRESENTATIONS of things (such as) the balancing factor in nature, and not being concerned with suffering. Not a being. Not something you can interact with. Not anthropomorphic. They are a label for the things men cannot understand or control.

Balance is not a god. It is a concept of equality, sometimes the dichotomy of nature, but not a being to be revered.

"Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams." - The Nine Satanic Statements (#2).
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25685 - 06/15/09 11:03 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Technically Satanists are 'their own gods'. That would be more along the lines of self-worship than believing in a god in any form, therefore Satanism is not a theistic religion or atheistic if you really want to get specific.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#25695 - 06/16/09 07:08 AM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Jake999]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on this. The "god" I talk of is not something I worship or pray to and I don't claim that it's even conscious. I simply said I don't know whether it has any consciousness or not. As you quite rightly said, man creates his own Gods and in this circumstance I choose to use the term god to describe all existence as in my eyes this is the most apt application. I could choose to simply say that god does not exist and forsake my "poetic" application of the name god, but for me this would simply detract from the enjoyment of my life by removing some of the wonder that I crave.
With regards to the concept of "god" or "everything" being conscious or not, this idea stems from a single odd notion I held as a child and haven't been able to shake. I wondered whether everything living has a consciousness of some form (albeit an entirely alien one) or not. For example I wondered whether plants, bacteria and animal cells have any form of consciousness. This led me on to imagine the state of human cells, is our consciousness born from the collective consciousness of trillions of cells? Probably not, but the idea intrigued me. This in turn led on to the idea that assuming such a collective consciousness could exist, wouldn't that be what god is? Simply a name given to all vital existence.

Dan: I'll be the first to admit that I'm somewhat "fruity" as you suggested, however as I said, this is something that provides me with personal pleasure and is therefore something that I've always held on to. I always admired the way a child can use their imagination to entertain themselves for hours, a skill that sadly weakens as they reach adulthood.

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#25698 - 06/16/09 12:59 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
The only "Vital Existence" that is relevant to a Satanist is his/her own "Vital Existence" along with those Existences that they chose to hold sacred.

The Merriam-Webster definition of god;

a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship ; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality


"With regards to the concept of "god" or "everything" being conscious or not, this idea stems from a single odd notion I held as a child and haven't been able to shake. I wondered whether everything living has a consciousness of some form (albeit an entirely alien one) or not. For example I wondered whether plants, bacteria and animal cells have any form of consciousness. This led me on to imagine the state of human cells, is our consciousness born from the collective consciousness of trillions of cells? Probably not, but the idea intrigued me. This in turn led on to the idea that assuming such a collective consciousness could exist, wouldn't that be what god is? Simply a name given to all vital existence."

Saligia-In regards to your statement, why would you deify something that stemmed from your imagination of all things, being intrigued certainly doesn't merit deification. If you are having a problem shedding a need to believe in the notion of an all powerful object (god), try the Ritual "Le Messe Noir", it has a knack for eliminating those feelings.
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Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25699 - 06/16/09 01:25 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Third-Side]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
 Originally Posted By: Third-Side


The Merriam-Webster definition of god;

a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship ; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality



Well going by that definition I guess I'd be considered an Atheist myself. Perhaps I horribly misunderstood the paragraph, but I took it to mean that god is simply a name to describe life and existence in general. Like I said, my concept of God in this sense is not something that I worship. Nevermind.

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#25700 - 06/16/09 01:39 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Hi Saligia,

Vexen Crabtree wrote an article comparing pantheism with Satanism which you may find interesting - although it largely focuses on Paul Harrison's "ecological" form which (in my view) somewhat confuses 'nature' with 'Nature' (i.e. in Spinoza's sense).

Richard Dawkins in his "God Delusion" described pantheism as "sexed-up Atheism". This really only applies to naturalistic pantheism though (which sees the 'god' thing more metaphorically) and not to more supernaturalistic forms which ascribe literal 'divine' attributes to the universe.

I was once close to a pantheistic view, as reflected in some of my earlier posts/articles here, however language does become confusing, especially where knotty words like "god" are invoked, so I prefer not to use such terminology.

I do however think there is value in a sense of reverence towards the universe or reality as a whole, this leads to an attitude of realism which (ironically) is anathema to most other notions of 'god'. It is also a large part of the scientific attitude of seeing things objectively, however fallible and infused with other human goals this may be in practice.

This does leave the individualistic or existential side of human existence untapped however, which is where something like Satanism or self-actualization comes in.

I once knew a guy with a tattoo of a circle with a line through it, which symbolizes this well. The circle, he said, represented life, the universe and everything. The line was his finite individual life. Juxtaposing the two does have a powerful significance, because although one's individual life is pretty insignificant from a cosmic perspective - it is pretty important from a human one.

How to reconcile these two is part and parcel of the human condition.

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#25701 - 06/16/09 02:09 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Meq]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Pantheism? Wouldn't Satanism also fall under the category of autotheism then?

And by naturalistic pantheism you mean not including Satanism? I always believed the self-worship/seeing yourself as a god concept to be metaphorical, and that the 'being in charge of your destiny' was symbolism for having the ability to make your own choices in life.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#25702 - 06/16/09 02:40 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
In all reality, I understand where you are coming from. The way I look at it is that if you use the term "God" to describe something as powerful as is the Force of Nature, you are probably identifying "God" as a deified presence, consciencely or not. Conscience thought (in this case) as related to your own "will" can adversely affect your day to day life and your ability to indulge to the fullest. In conclusion, to free yourself of the burden of "god" is to do yourself the favor of lifting any restricting thought or feelings. The forces of nature and/or the presence of the incomprehensible universe are all to be respected as they are just that incomprehensible and inconceivable.
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Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25703 - 06/16/09 02:43 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Meq]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
Thankyou for that link, it helped clear up some things that were pressing on my mind


 Originally Posted By: Meq

I was once close to a pantheistic view, as reflected in some of my earlier posts/articles here, however language does become confusing, especially where knotty words like "god" are invoked, so I prefer not to use such terminology.


I can see what you mean with this. I kind of made a mess of explaining my viewpoint back there.

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#25709 - 06/16/09 07:50 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Saligia]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
Originally Posted By: Meq

I was once close to a pantheistic view, as reflected in some of my earlier posts/articles here, however language does become confusing, especially where knotty words like "god" are invoked, so I prefer not to use such terminology.


I can see what you mean with this. I kind of made a mess of explaining my viewpoint back there.
Saglia,


IT is certainly easy to do especially if you are trying not to write pages of drivel. Glad to see you have taken the time to look around and read the forum. It is certainly worth it, as pretty much everythread goes off topic here and certianly this long, long ones do.

Thankyou Meq for that link, as I too have found it easy to use the word pantheism when describing quickly my idea of God, balance, the universe and life force. Like you said though, it does all come down to terminology. Labels, labels, labels. You have written it down much better than I could have so again, thanks for that.


ZephyrGirl
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#28122 - 08/08/09 02:23 AM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I think Anton LaVey is somewhere, rolling on the floor and doubling over laughing into uncontrollable fits of belly aching mirth.
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#28126 - 08/08/09 03:52 AM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Satansfarm]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Here is a simple common sense one:

Don't whine or complain about someone to their friends!!!

It makes you look stupid for a few reasons.

1. You look like a baby who needs a time out.

2. Are you that stupid that you are complaining about someone to their friends?

3. The internet is a tool, just because you don't know people in real life doesn't mean others haven't shared a drink together in person.

4. You are the new guy, suck up the questions, the doubts about your intelligence, and your ability to have a clue.

5. Respect is earned, it is not freely given.

6. No one has to be nice to you. No one is paid to answer your questions or show you the way.

7. If you don't understand something, admit it rather than going on and off onto different tangents.

8. You are supposed to be a Satanists, if you don't like a situation leave. You do not have to put up with stuff you don't like. It doesn't make you a Satanist, it makes you a masochist.

9. When in someone else lair, respect it. Someone else is paying for it, and its not you.

10. Bring your A game here, otherwise you will be eaten.

11. Read and understand the board before opening your mouth, it makes you look less stupid.

I hope that helps some new people understand why complaining about shit will mostly get you no where.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#28162 - 08/08/09 11:16 PM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Morgan]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
It doesn't really matter to me what anyone says about join this or
become that. I am on my own. There is no easy way out of life, not through Satanism, magic, LHP, whatever you want to call it.

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#31624 - 11/13/09 05:15 AM Re: Things Older Satanists Want Younger Ones To Kn [Re: Anthony West]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
 Originally Posted By: Anthony_West
...we want to know what you older Satanists know and what you want us to know.
I know that no matter how silly and poorly-founded, how off-the-wall or disrespectful, how illogical or wrong, it is better to sincerely pursue your interests as a Satanian from your OWN perspective than to take up the values and views of others, even your elders, without any connection to what you are adopting. AUTHENTICITY and INDEPENDENCE are key Satanian virtues.

I'd kind of enjoy it if younger Satanians came to know that fascism and Satanity are completely incompatible; that there are limitations to transgression beyond which one self-disables and destabilizes the foundations from which one previously was able to take action and choose.

I'd also like it if younger Satanists could know that the character of harshness, wrath, criticalness, judgemental upbraiding, sour jaded been-through-it-all know-it-all-ism that passes for authority is self-betraying and corrupt, that you can choose fluffy and friendly and it doesn't have to mean traitor or treason to the LHP. I like Hello Kitty.
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