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#3095 - 01/02/08 04:12 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Soluna666]
JustExtreme Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 7
I like to think that LaVeyan Satanists generally investigate the subjects covered in the Satanic Bible more deeply and also look at where certain parts of the book originally came from, its really just what you want it to be.
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#3121 - 01/03/08 02:24 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: JustExtreme]
Soluna666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Canada
My sentiments exactly, Just Extreme. I suspect LaVey enjoyed some sadistic indulgence when he encountered any idiot professing to be self-reliant and liberated while attempting to slavishly follow everything he wrote.
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#3122 - 01/03/08 03:18 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Soluna666]
JustExtreme Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 7
Indeed, idiot "satanists" follow him as if he was some kind of jesus figure or religious leader but all he done was take what made sense to him, compile it, added some of his own wit and presented it in an easily accessible form, he did not intend it to be followed word for word. Its all about having your own individual style of living and being, LaVey definately did this.

Edited by JustExtreme (01/03/08 03:19 PM)

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#3123 - 01/03/08 05:19 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: JustExtreme]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 561
Loc: just visiting
Some 35 years later, the Church is still using Coop illustrations and dusty photos of festooned members mocking the Christian Church as propaganda. There have been countless criticisms of the CoS written over the years; mostly by outraged fundamentalist Christians labeling Satanists as baby killing serial rapists and murderers. Those claims have all been debunked by Government investigations of the 1980’s and 90’s. So what has the CoS been up to since its inception and since Anton’s death? A whole lot of nothing, unless you count the repeated touting of Anton and his writings.

Are we, as intelligent people, supposed to take the writings of LaVey as our Gospel? By Anton’s definition, we should certainly not. We should all strive to take the philosophies he borrowed and use them as the first stepping stones towards a higher understanding of our unique visions of society, philosophy, morality, and ourselves. While Anton was many things in his life, he was first and foremost an eccentric carnival barker…the world was his carnival and he presented it in a very different light than most of “the herd” perceived it.

Anton’s death brought a schism to his Church, and it now lies in the hands of sycophants and charlatans bent on the continued perception of heretical Christianity. It’s apparent in the rituals of the Church, by the Satanic “priests” in their mocking attire, and their paradoxical rhetoric. Why isn’t the CoS continuing to build on Anton’s vision? Where are the books that should be coming from the Church helping to foster thought and fight the stagnancy it now rests in? Gilmore’s “Satanic Scriptures” are a weak collection of essays and articles collected from various Church newsletters. The Church’s publishing house, Purging Talon, is little more than a (albeit effective) means to tithe even more money out of church members with substandard “literature.”

As I am not, nor have ever been, a member of the CoS, I certainly don’t have the answers to the above questions. Perhaps there is much more going on behind their two hundred dollar-veil of secrecy and silence. Perhaps I am not qualified to even ask these questions and criticize. However, it seems to me that Anton did not fear the public like his Church now does…answers may only come with approved membership and appropriate financial tithing.
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#3136 - 01/04/08 07:01 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Octavius]
JustExtreme Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 7
I completely agree Octavius, the Church of Satan seems to me to have become more of a novelty than a meaningful and serious organisation as it was with LaVey leading it. LaVeys work is a good starting point or stepping stone but one must investigate the principals within it further in order to gain a real perspective on oneself and what LaVey was actually trying to say and do.

Edited by JustExtreme (01/04/08 07:02 AM)

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#3140 - 01/04/08 04:31 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: JustExtreme]
Soluna666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Canada
Indeed, for such a small book, I continue to glean new info and insight from TSB as my perspective evolves. After all the years since I first read it, I still come across stuff and think, "I didn't notice that before."

Given Anton's history as a carny, I feel he had a strong sense of irony when it came to observing humans fall into the same traps time and time again. Judging by what the Temple of Set has to say, some of the Adepts began to feel somewhat limited by the parameters within TSB philosophy. I agree. It can become a very closed system if one is too dogmatic about it.

I suspect LaVey was well aware of this, that a true independent thinker would eventually realize they have just trapped themselves in another philosophical box, and only then would they begin to develop their own ideas and apply them in real life. But therein lies evolution.

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#3165 - 01/06/08 03:02 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Soluna666]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
AS weird as you proclaimed it, and as much as I'd love to argue... I am forced to not disagree with you.
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#3167 - 01/06/08 04:51 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thought [Re: daevid777]
xear Administrator Offline
Admin
member


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Individualism, unrepentant pursuit of wisdom, and the belief in this "human potential movement" is the byproduct of great minds that we simply cannot afford to ignore.

It's not the worship of a man that we need focus on, as much as it is the inspiration and legacy that they leave behind.

... Inspire and be inspired, I say.

- R

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#3169 - 01/06/08 09:11 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Octavius]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Are we, as intelligent people, supposed to take the writings of LaVey as our Gospel? By Anton’s definition, we should certainly not.


Absolutely!

Reflecting on this little gem from TSB:

"A black mass, today, would consist of the blaspheming of such "sacred" topics as Eastern mysticism, psychiatry, the psychedelic movement, ultra-liberalism, etc. Patriotism would be
championed, drugs and their gurus would be defiled, acultural militants would be deified, and the decadence of ecclesiastical theologies might even be given a Satanic boost."

The true practitioner must seek the dichotomies of their own times.

In many was the CoS looks like a bunch of D&D nerds arguing about what the rules say. If you engage in this sort of thing you are truly missing the point. A vital existence is not found a book but in the practical application of the principle.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3177 - 01/06/08 06:05 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
when you need to change you beliefs or the way you live for a religion or to live under the rules of another man how are you any better then any religious nut.satanists are born and not made if one has not been living this way all your life(live for indulgence,strength,power,free thought, even befor you read the TSB perhaps you are on the wrong path,in my opion the TSB was meant to try to wake up a few sheep as thats more money for his church and that is how it is written as if the reader has never thought this way befor in their lives,thouse of us that already live our lives with satanic ideals dont need any rules other then our own.was a good book and i laughed quite bit reading it including the end with the enochian keys lol. to summerize: to live under another book or man you are still a sheep trying to be a wolf and failing. live for yourself.
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#5914 - 03/19/08 09:45 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: ]
DeathIsWicked Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 14
Loc: Peyton, Colorado
I don't understand LaVeyan Satanists. It's a little confusing to me...ok alot of confusing.
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#5980 - 03/20/08 06:08 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: DeathIsWicked]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Satanism is a philosophy. Atheism is non-religion. They are not mutually exclusive or even related technically.

Most Satanists I have spoken to are Atheist because most satanists are intelligent and see religion for the pile of lies that it is. However there is no reason why a satanist cannot beleive in the existance of a God, it's just unlikely.
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#5993 - 03/20/08 11:41 AM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thought [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Hello TC, let us have at this again properly shall we?

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Satanism is a philosophy. Atheism is non-religion. They are not mutually exclusive or even related technically.

I myself did not like the fracturing of Satanism due to what I considered typical religious bullshit… My dislike was mainly for those that felt the need to further fracture this belief with the use of a different prefix… The most common words used to prefix the word Satanism are Traditional/ Theistic and LaVayan/ Atheistic… Just because things are not related in ways that you agree with does not change anything…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Most Satanists I have spoken to are atheist because most satanists are intelligent and see religion for the pile of lies that it is.

What? I thought you just said they were in no way related? I have met spoken with and talked with many traditionalists on the old forum… At the core they believe the same as we do… Just perhaps they need more dogma in their lives just as some need ritual and some do not…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
However there is no reason why a satanist cannot beleive in the existance of a God, it's just unlikely.

You do also have some clue as to what “Joy of Satan Minitries” stands for in DeathIsWicked’s signature? The one you are speaking to don’t you?

I think a simple way to put it would be Satanism mixed with Egyptian gods, some ufo’s thrown in for good measure, private conversation with father Satan, all mixed up with a big spoon of white power, white power, white power… But do your own research draw your own conclusions…

Glanecia’s original debate on wordplay and concrete definitions still holds little interest to me…

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#6203 - 03/22/08 02:55 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: TornadoCreator]
NYCLeather Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 2
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Most Satanists I have spoken to are atheist because most satanists are intelligent and see religion for the pile of lies that it is.


Intelligent...or maybe a more keenly attuned BS detector. ;\)

I think all religions are really cults because the end game is some kind of self sacrifice. People get themselves into these endless cycles of unachievable system of ethics, unearned guilt, and limited or temporary atonement. It is a pile of lies, but they are in so far deep, they have no perspective.


Edited by NYCLeather (03/22/08 02:57 PM)
Edit Reason: add sentence

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#6256 - 03/23/08 03:13 PM Re: Are "LaVeyan" Satanists atheists? - My Thoughts [Re: ]
Engel08 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
I think the definition of a satanist has sort of become incredibly complicated over time. As different individuals branch out ect.
I know I was a laveyan for a while then touched on some Crowlian stuff the From there Veered out to just plain being a skeptic to being somewhat of a agnostic. But still a little skeptical. To kind of coming back to the whole paganism with some intrest in Satanism.
So I suppose that LeVeyan's could be atheists. But anyone who claims to be a god, definitely would never stray far from the definition of a god.(which is the problem with doctrine and Dogma)

Godless in external sense yes. But not entirely without belief in a central force.

But I find it amusing how they can still mock or judge harshly the "self proclaimed god" satanists and call them crazy.

Not that I disagree in the view on jos that this group and others have.
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