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#16056 - 12/12/08 08:26 PM The Bible and Science
Butterz Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Loc: Georgia
I just saw a commercial for program airing on Discovery this Sunday at 9pm eastern time. Sodom an Gomorrah and following that Exodus. The commercial stated there are going to scientifically evaluate bible stories, such as reasoning behind the plagues (other than god).

Should be interesting in my opinion.

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#16057 - 12/12/08 08:30 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Butterz]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Doesn't sound like anything new to me. The bible has already been discredited by scientists several times over. It should still be an interesting program though.
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#16058 - 12/12/08 08:30 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Butterz]
Jake999 Offline
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It's a repeat, but worth watching. The explanations they come up with are elegant and plausible alternatives to the the religious assumptions that people are presented with.
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#16191 - 12/14/08 10:41 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Jake999]
The Zebu Offline
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I've seen a few documentaries like that before... quite interesting, even though I can't bring myself to give the Bible credit for every single event it claims is historical.

But it does present an interesting point- the issue that naturally-explained miracles are a double-edged sword. On one hand, Christians can use it to support the plausibility of the historicity of the Bible... but on the other hand, the fact that they can be explained by natural science dulls their glamour and makes them seem far less miraculous.
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#16192 - 12/14/08 11:57 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: The Zebu]
Butterz Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
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Loc: Georgia
The most obsurd story was that of Noah. Archeologist found some evidence of a man named Noah around that time period. He was a merchant, using the annual flood to tansport his goods down river. Deeper water he could use a larger barge, carry more animals and grains, and maximize profit. The annual flood was caused by annual melting of snow caps in the mountains. During this annual flood of the river along with a a heavy rain storm could have destroyed his village. Along with washing his barge into the Persian Sea.

To me that was very believable.

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#16193 - 12/15/08 01:07 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Butterz]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Quote:

Archeologist found some evidence of a man named Noah around that time period.

That's a tall claim. I'd really like to see this evidence. Link?
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#16196 - 12/15/08 02:20 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Dan_Dread]
Butterz Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
It was on Discovery tonight. It was in the form of chisled stone.
It was called "Noah's Ark: The True Story". I looked for a link in discovery channel website but I couldn't find it. They found 3 seperate accounts of him, not as a man of God, but a greedy merchant. I'll keep checkin the site to see if they stream the show in the future.

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#16197 - 12/15/08 02:24 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Butterz]
Butterz Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
I found a link where you can read the story of it.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/175321/noahs_ark_the_true_story.html?cat=47

page two talks about these clay tablets.

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#16219 - 12/15/08 03:30 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Butterz]
The Zebu Offline
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That's not archaeological evidence for Noah's flood per se, but more like evidence to support that most of the bible was inspired/copied/ripped-off/whateveryouwannasay from earlier Babylonian mythology, and that the flood was based on some history, but that of a smaller local flood.
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#16463 - 12/18/08 03:17 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: The Zebu]
Mike Offline
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Most of the bible is a rip off of pagan mythology. You can look at the story of Noah in a few different ways..

One, it was based on the "historical" greedy merchant Noah and was twisted throughout time by people spreading the story by word of mouth.

Two, it's just another false bible story meant to scare people into believing in a wrathful murderous god or some other type of nonsense moral.

And finally, it was a total rip-off from stories written before it which probably had no true value or truth to it either.

Did anyone catch the documentary on Moses and the "reed sea"?
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#16470 - 12/18/08 03:47 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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 Quote:
Most of the bible is a rip off of pagan mythology. You can look at the story of Noah in a few different ways..

1) Actually it is the way round... pagan mythology is partially a rip-off of christian Mythology.
2) In every "mystic" writings you can look into it in a few different ways. It depends on your basic knowledge about history, your education etc....
3) Bullshit remains bullshit you know, however you want to twist and turn it.

 Quote:
And finally, it was a total rip-off from stories written before it which probably had no true value or truth to it either.

Wouldn't say that. Such stories are actually quite interesting to find out what happened in our past. Things like the flood with Noah surviving means there must have been a flooding in the area where he lived. Which means there are remains of a civilisation to be explored to complete our image of history BC.
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#16472 - 12/18/08 04:01 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Dimitri]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
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Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Wouldn't say that. Such stories are actually quite interesting to find out what happened in our past. Things like the flood with Noah surviving means there must have been a flooding in the area where he lived. Which means there are remains of a civilisation to be explored to complete our image of history BC.


This is saying that the bible story is true. It would perhaps be better to look at sources outside of the bible to learn about history, even if something mentioned in the bible can be related to something that was documented in other sources.

And how is pagan mythology the rip-off if Christianity came after it?

But I do agree that bullshit is bullshit, otherwise it wouldn't be bullshit
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#16491 - 12/18/08 08:08 PM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Quote:

Most of the bible is a rip off of pagan mythology


Well that depends what you qualify as 'pagan'. Pagan historically means pretty much everything people believed that wasn't Christian based.

The old testament is basically a handed down version of Sumerian/Egyptian beliefs to the Hebrews. Before Zoroastrianism, the Hebrews viewed their god as one of many, and were in a sense polytheistic. Why else was the OT god so concerned about people worshiping 'other gods'?

Anyhow, dualistic theism as it still exists today is nothing more than the great great grandwhelp of sun worship. That humans still exhibit this primitive behavior is just a sign, among many, that mankind hasn't really come that far from the caves yet.

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#16506 - 12/19/08 03:37 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Dan_Dread]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
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Well, I am interested in "all" mythologies presently, but even the bible "rips off" the bible... take Jesus and Moses for instance... perhaps a way to convert the Jews? I wouldn't presume to know, but arguments are what they are.

How about Jesus and Balder? Or even Jesus and Odin? Or Azlan and Jesus (Narnia)? The same story over and over again, perhaps we might investigate why the need for this same story, instead of its origin.

I know this is not the "right" answer, even for me, being somewhat of a "purist", and investigating the "original", but it is what it is, and sometimes it is very difficult to find out the "real" truth, if there ever really was one. Going back to the first "documented" facts is just the beginning in many of these questions, and I'm afraid there just is no way of really knowing anything at all in these "mysteries". Everything is borrowed, look at popular music if you need an example... not far from the caves, indeed!
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#16510 - 12/19/08 04:58 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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1) I'm not saying the bible holds the truth. I'm only saying the bible can be a good work to indicate some ancient events which happened somewhere in the past. Most archaeological findings have been found by: or coincidence, or by reading things as the bible where people saw some stories which described an event that may have happened. Like the story of Noah: if you cut out all the bullshit you simply have 1 thing that remains and needs to be investigated. This thing is: "There has been a flood/natural disaster which may have destroyed a culture we don't know of. You see, this is a mistake most people make. It is not because the stories are coming from a mind on weed that it holds no essence of truth. You simply must have the brains to cut out all the godly bullshit and find the rational things behind it. Also, not everything is linked to each other. There are some archaeological findings where there was no source at all.

2)
 Quote:
And how is pagan mythology the rip-off if Christianity came after it?
Depends on what definition you give on "paganism". You have modern pagans whose philosophy is mostly based on Christianity, you have other pagans whose mythology/philosophy is from before Xianity. Also, real paganism from before Christ doesn't exist anymore. Most of the information has been lost in time every ritual and idea was teached orally not by scripture. Maybe there are some texts about it which give an idea, but at overall there are too few to get a firm grasp on it whether people like it or not. These are plain facts.
Or like Dan pointed out nicely
 Quote:
Well that depends what you qualify as 'pagan'. Pagan historically means pretty much everything people believed that wasn't Christian based.




Edited by Dimitri (12/19/08 05:01 AM)
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#16523 - 12/19/08 10:50 AM Re: The Bible and Science [Re: Dimitri]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I wouldn't use the words "rip-off". That would imply that they conciously copied off of pagan mythology. They didn't- it was probably much more on a subconscious level, although the motifs passed along from civilization to civilization are undoubtedly of pagan origin.

What I find hilarious is, as much downtalking to paganism as Christianity does, walk into a catholic church. You will see enthroned idols, small devotional shrines, elaborately garbed priests, sophisticated altars, and occasionally even burning incense! Not far off from the pagan temples of old. Nothing in the basics of religious devotion has changed in the past 2,000 years, except maybe for the certain lack of animal sacrifices nowadays. Even a stark "puritan" church, with a simple wooden cross behind the pulpit, could be accused of idolatry.

Christianity cannot possibly separate itself from paganism, as the concepts of a reincarnated deity, communal sacrifice, divine impregnation of a virgin, the idea of "God as three unified but distinct persons", etc, all reek of heathen religion and polytheism, and yet they are embraced by even the most sterile of puritans.
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