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#16492 - 12/18/08 08:35 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I am here to discuss and learn, and I deserve just as much respect as anyone else on this forum.

You are quite naive if you really believe that. Naive about Satanism, Satanists, and life in general. Respect is not something you are just 'entitled' to, it is something you have to earn by way of merit.

 Quote:

Is faith a bad thing?

The second you open your mouth to try to communicate it, the answer is yes. Faith can be spread, like any good disease.The only faith that is not harmful is the faith that is kept to yourself, and even that is self-deceptive.

It is harmful in that epistemology must be completely abandoned to embrace it. Epistemology is the human study of what can be known and the ways that they can be known, and that is where science comes in. Science, of course, is, is a modification of the Latin word for knowledge or knowing. Science is technically the sum total of REAL human knowledge, and the means of attaining it.

FAITH by nature masquerades as epistemology, when of course it is not. You can never know anything real through faith. Faith is harmful because the second you believe something on faith you have shut the door to any REAL knowledge. Faith is harmful because it impedes thought, research, communication and advancement. Faith is harmful because it implies stagnation. No knowledge, no science, no advancement, can ever come from faith;Yet faith replaces the very means that these things can be attained by. It is an intellectual cancer.

Like crack, or smoking, or any other personally harmful decision a person might make for themselves, I respect a persons right to have faith because it is their own mind, to do with as they will.Just don't bring that shit around me and expect to be respected or even tolerated.
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#16494 - 12/18/08 09:22 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Well, I think I've learned my lesson. I still have my faith, and as you and many others would probably suggest, it is best to keep it to myself. I just hope this whole discussion doesn't come bite me in the ass in other threads that come to religion...Hahah

And, at the risk of sounding sarcastic, thanks everyone.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#16529 - 12/19/08 02:03 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Hey Mikey,
Have you looked into Sciencetology?

There is nothing wrong with evolving your thoughts and beliefs, but as Dan and Diavolo mentioned when you just take things on "Faith" you limit your own minds understanding and possibilities.

Dude, find what makes you happy, just dont expect others to follow you or really understand you.

Its called a solitary path for a reason.



Morg


Just remember to have fun along the way....




Edited by Morgan (12/19/08 02:06 PM)
Edit Reason: bad grammer
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#16531 - 12/19/08 03:34 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Morgan]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I've never looked into Scientology, yet I have heard some things about it. My whole "hypothesis" on the Satan/Jehova/Angels subject having to do with separate races (from this world or another) was really just a stab in the dark, trying to bring at least some reasoning to my beliefs. I consider it a possibility, but I don't actually believe Satan is an "alien"...If I remember correctly, that was the belief behind the Joy of Satan's teachings...Not something I would really want to associate myself with to be honest.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#16540 - 12/19/08 08:20 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If not an alien then what? some sort of magical metaphysical entity?

Why?

I can only blame this level of sillyness on your age, or some unknown to me motivation to continue on a path obviously not fueled by reason or logic.

I KNOW you are intelligent. THINK!
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#16544 - 12/19/08 08:54 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Perhaps...

And you can't blame it on my age...How many christians do you know that are older than 15? It is a faith based beleif system. Whether or not you consider it silly is your opinion.

And am I any less intelligent for having faith? Thank you for the compliment, but at the same time your words are somewhat offending.

Will I change my mind in the future? I don't know. And obvious to you may not be to some...Sure it sounds crazy, but just because you don't follow the same path as I do doesn't mean it's the wrong path. And as Morgan said, there's a reason it's a solitary path. I have to figure out things on my own.

Right now we can only agree to disagree...If you're done trying to change my mind that is, which doesn't bother me. It's the constant bashing of my beliefs and comments on things such as my age. When I first came to this forum I was 13. Not only was I 13, but I was a Christian, searching for answers. Between then and now, I have looked into many different beliefs. I even considered myself to be a modern Satanist for a period of time, but then something happened and my beliefs changed. I'm not saying I will believe what I do forever, maybe something else will happen that would make me reconsider things. As many people have told me, I need to continue on my path, an endless path in my opinion.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#16545 - 12/19/08 08:58 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
If you're done trying to change my mind that is


Nope. not yet.

 Quote:

Thank you for the compliment, but at the same time your words are somewhat offending.

I realize that.

They are actually kind words. I think you already have tools way beyond what many will ever have. I just think you need time to learn to use them ;\)
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#16546 - 12/19/08 09:15 PM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Ah, good analogy.
And again, thank you for the compliments. Just too bad is was buried under all the bashings.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#16564 - 12/20/08 03:19 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
"We", "Wii?", are speaking with, if memory serves correct, and the age of this individual certainly does fit... to "Mike of the Fire".

At least, I believe this is the latest incarnation of "Mike of the Fire" - bible school dropout... "go back to high-school..." Sorry Mike, that's a joke that you need to get, and I suggest watching "Grease", as a primer.

And... although I'm really just fucking with you, and I honestly mean no harm, you've still got this "Theistic" thing going on, which can honestly be a trap, especially for the young. You see, you have a(n) unique opportunity here, to become something you never quite imagined... but maybe, just maybe, you "woke up" too soon. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm almost envious, but you may be just getting off that yellow-brick road and heading straight for the rabbit-hole (shit, I need to start reading to my kids again...).

Actually, that's a good starting place: Alice's Adventures in Wonderland... I've started reading it too, I think I'm about half-through. It's easy enough to read, but not easy to think-through (implications)... hell, it's on Crowley's recommended reading list, as I remember.

Anyway, I meant, you're so young... don't be going all weird... plenty of time for that. Read Alice... and maybe someday when you're 30 or 40, read it again... nothing is what it is, when you think it is.... or at least that's what the mushroom said to me.

Sorry, should have been a PM - forgive ye Mods of greatness. ?
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#16572 - 12/20/08 05:35 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I blame it on your age Mike. You might disagree with it but I still see the same Christian kid that stumbled in here two years ago. You might have partially dropped the Christian lore but all the fundamental flaws in thinking and the whole need for mystical bullshit are still governing your thinking. It's a different movie you are directing but the story-line is identical.
There are a lot of people out there that think Satanism depends on nothing but adding the goat, devil and demon into their arguments, glorify them and they're on the right path. The LHP doesn't depend on imagery. I see someone still walking the RHP without realizing it. The imagery fools you to think you are on the right track but the content points into another direction.

It doesn't even have anything to do with smart. I know people that are much and much smarter than me that are very dumb at some levels. It's a matter of insight and understanding and that got more to do with reaching a critical point in your thinking than with being smart to begin with. You are nowhere that critical point at the moment.

Do with it what you want.

D.

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#16574 - 12/20/08 05:48 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Well, exactly...

I was making a grand attempt at being "nice", and then Diavolo just goes and blows the whole thing to bits.

But if you stick around you'll find that he's... exactly the same way, pretty much all the time...

But in this case... he's actually being very nice. This is like "nice Diavolo, oooohhh, prettty little Diavolo", scratch him on the tummy kinda nice, so listen up, 'cause it don't get much better than this.

Sooner or later he's going to bite you (and me for posting this, among other reasons) on your sorry ass. Good luck man, I'm already doomed, save yourself!!!!
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#16576 - 12/20/08 06:34 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: daevid777]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
Well, daevid777 and Diavolo, let take Mike his time. He slowely is becoming LHP and is starting to realize what true Satanism actually is. He made already the huge step for putting on the label "theistic inspired satanist". I give it a few more years and he will ignore all the theistic bullshit and he shall have the more pure essence of this philosophy.

I had the same experience, I came into contact with Satanism on the age of 13. I hated it because I had the wrong information before me. Also preconceptions had feared me about this philosophy (wich actually was christian bullshit). But fueled by interest I stepped out of my bubble and read some works of Lavey. It was then I began to realize that Paganism and other faith-based religions actually are hollow spheres. It took me just 2 years to "convert". And another year by becoming active within Satanic "communities". Mike is almost going trough the same proces, maybe on a bit different way, but within some time his ideas will change.
My "evolution" hasn't come to an end yet, it's still changing. Just like other people. Untill I die..

"Takes a choclat cigarette and puts it in his mouth". Maybe within a few years that'll be a big Havana Cigar.. For now, I'll enjoy it.


Edited by Dimitri (12/20/08 06:35 AM)
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#16579 - 12/20/08 08:58 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Dimitri]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Mike is almost going trough the same proces, maybe on a bit different way, but within some time his ideas will change.


Yet who's to say exactly what my ideas will change to?

And D, it's not so much an age thing that it is an experience thing. The more I see or read or hear, the more I will pick up. Sure this comes with age, but it's not restricted to people with a few more years under their belt. Some that are my age or younger could find or realize whatever it is you feel I will.

And how many irrational faith based thinking christians do you know that are older than 15? Age isn't everything...You could just as easily find someone in their 40's who believes in the bible or believe what I do. What can you blame their stupidity on?

I need to follow my own path. People can help me on my way but what it really comes down to is that all the answers I will receive will come from within myself. I am starting to see where some of your (and many other people on this site's) views are coming from, however if I just decide to change my beliefs so abruptly I will have accomplished nothing. As time goes on I know my opinions will change, but who's to say what direction I will head toward? It is up to me to decide what is right and wrong, what is real and what is not. Everything comes from within, and seeing as how Satan as my god exists only within my mind, he is a part of me and therefore I AM Satan, I am my god. This much I understand, and is what I mean when I referred to him and god as "real to me". It is all part of my own reality. The passages of the OT I find a liking to are passages that can be taken in either a literal or symbolic sense, such as god creating heaven and earth. This can refer to the fact that by nature I was born into this world, however discovering other aspects about my existence that are aside from nature are the work of the adversary within me, meaning by questioning my existence I am becoming Satan, until I can one day become one with him in the sense that I am fully enlightened and have become my own god. Although I understand this as I mentioned, I do not think I am quite there yet, as some here have helped me to realize. It all takes time, and I have a lot more thinking to do on the topic. And only through myself can I find my answers.


Edited by Mike (12/20/08 09:10 AM)
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#16580 - 12/20/08 09:25 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
Yet who's to say exactly what my ideas will change to?
I don't know what your ideas will change to. The only thing I'm quite certain about; is that if you stick here long enough your views will change more to laveyan philosophy and less to theistic-inspired ideology.

 Quote:
And how many irrational faith based thinking christians do you know that are older than 15? Age isn't everything...You could just as easily find someone in their 40's who believes in the bible or believe what I do.

I wasn't judging on your age, I judge no one on their age. Hell you could be as old as me.. I'm only 19 or so. It is not that someone older is more wiser. But to me it is a fact that from a certain point when you start learning about a philosophy you will unconsiously put some aspects of it within practise in your real life. You can disagree with me for now, but I'm quite sure that within a couple of years looking back at my comment you'll laugh and actually say I was taking it at the right end. Unlikely for my rather young age, I already know how most people will react in certain situations. How I know? Read and observe hiding within shadows of others has it's advantages and in the end you can outshine them.

 Quote:
I need to follow my own path. People can help me on my way but what it really comes down to is that all the answers I will receive will come from within myself.

That's what I call a REAL satanic answer.

 Quote:
And D,

I'd like to stress out: I'm not a rapping negro. My name is Dimitri with capital D. Not "D". Not to cause you harm or so. I just want to point that part out.
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#16581 - 12/20/08 09:42 AM Re: "The Diabolicon" [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
In your case I consider it an age thing. I saw you construct four different belief-systems before my absence and now you have a next one and in all of them, I do see the same fundamental flaws and only a difference in how the package is wrapped. It's what I imply with reaching or not reaching a critical point in thinking. At your age, you are obsessed with the wrapping of a package and give it too much value. At one point, if you'll get there, you'll realize that the wrapping is rather irrelevant and that the content is what it is all about. All the explanations about metaphores, literal and symbolic meanings are nice and well but they don't hide a fundamental need. It's this need I call the flaw, the critical weakness in whatever philosophy or religion is constructed upon it. You can smash the house of god and erect a temple of satan but if you start putting your bricks on the previous foundation, the building will only appear different.

The direction of the path isn't as much decided by oneself as it is an unavoidable direction. One can stuff so much knowledge in a rabbit, it starts to resemble an elephant but it might still eat carrots. Why are there biologists out there, with all their knowledge about nature and science, whom still cling to some belief system which can't be called else but weak or stupid? The critical point. Their brain never reached that critical point, either because it isn't capable of doing so, or they are too weak to do so. Choice has very little to do with it. And we're back at the old but valid; "satanists are born, not made" line. Not even a person can turn himself into a satanist. One is or one isn't. If one can reach the critical point or not defines what one is.

You're still young, you got time and time will tell. Knowledge might be handy, experience for sure but if or if not you'll get that neural click is beyond your control. As it was with all of us.

D.

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