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#1856 - 11/13/07 02:54 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Baphomit666]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I think it was something Michael Moore touched on when he did Bowling for Columbine that people on welfare in the United States are obligated to participate in some sort of “work to earn” program. It was the story about the African American boy in Flint, Michigan who I believe was only in the first grade and brought a gun to school and shot a Caucasian female classmate. When the police investigated where the boy found the gun, it came out that he was living with a relative who owned the gun as his mother was bussed off to work every day and having to participate in the “work to earn” program because she was on welfare. I haven’t seen the movie for awhile, but I believe that was the general outline of the situation.

Since you brought up the mothers on welfare issue I was wondering if you could clarify whether collecting welfare in the United States means having to participate in a government-run work program? The way Moore suggested it worked was that these jobs only paid minimum wage and in areas like Flint people took these jobs because there was little other work available. I don’t know a lot about the welfare system in Canada, but from what I understand anyone collecting it has to participate in a sort of job search program to prove that they are looking for work unless they are unable to work, but I don’t believe there are any mandatory government dictated jobs here for those on welfare.

I think any Satanist would agree with the fact that women who center their lives around popping out babies every couple of years just to live for free should be forced to get their tubes tied. It’s something I don’t think I will ever be able to comprehend. Welfare pays the bare minimum to live month to month and the mother is basically insuring their children an impoverished upbringing and a lesser chance of success in their adult lives. I don’t have children, but if I did I would want them to have the best of everything I could provide. I would be putting money away for a college education, taking them on vacations when they were old enough to appreciate seeing the world and generally trying to provide a fulfilling life. Limiting a child’s life to what the mother can scam from the government and any charity she can find (which would likely be happening more out of the self-serving interest of giving herself an easy life) isn’t just a sick form of child abuse, it’s something the law should find a way to start preventing.

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#1868 - 11/13/07 11:51 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Nemesis]
Baphomit666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Taunton-Mass-USA
Nemesis, good to know i am not the only one with the whole gunning down mind set. I think that there should be some real reform in this system in this area. I know it is hard to tell when someone is in real trouble and needs help as opposed to people who are faking, but only sometimes. I think that it is prety obvious when a single mom has a kid and as soon as it is old enough to start school, has another and get's the original taken away for something or another, that she is manipulating the system. The government should stop turning a blind eye on this serious problem and DO SOMething about it.

I have nothing against potheads either, IF, they work to support there habbit. I love to drink and on occasion i smoke, but i get up everyday and go to work for money to do so. The sheer thought that while i am working to barely get by, some lazy asshole get's a check in the mail containing my money and is better off than i am.
_________________________
~~Baphomit666~~
"In night i see the real, concealed by days blinding lie"

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#1870 - 11/14/07 12:37 AM Re: Sicko [Re: Baphomit666]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
perhaphs you should just become that lazy asshole then baphomit666 what is stopping you? why work when you dont have to .i dont get why if you can it with out that suffering why dont you take it
free money is always nice i was on child welfare at 16 then when i became an adult normal welfare for a few years ,i did not have to work, i got free money granted it wasnt much money but still i hate work.im all about fun most of that money i blew partying
that whole mentailty of work work work till you die is weak in my opion if i can get sompthng for free i will take it. are pot heads that sell dope considered working to you out of couristy?
just beacuse you feel you need to slave away to live.dont get angry at thouse smart enought to get money with out that annoyance of work.so beacuse you suffer for it everyone eles must suffer is the mentality? kinda silly in my views,hell even now i turned my hobby into my work so its not really work. i have probly worked at most 3 years of my life in 28 years not counting my current occupation as i dont consider that work. as for bring up a child in the enviroment thats a diffrent story.
unless they are making sick cash but usally its poverty in the situation so on that i agree people having kids to get one more check then usally losing to child services seems like child abuse to me.

( The sheer thought that while i am working to barely get by, some lazy asshole get's a check in the mail containing my money and is better off than i am.) all i see in this statment is envy.
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#1896 - 11/14/07 11:46 AM Re: Sicko [Re: rob_church]
Baphomit666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Taunton-Mass-USA
Ok rob, i understand what you are saying. As i said before thoughsome people can't get wellfare. Plus i don't feel that if i am not working someone else should have to pay for me to live. My main argument against it is the whole child abuse element to the whole thing. I don't have kids and i am not dissabled in any way so i cannot (as you stated) just be the lazy asshole. I wish i could have it that easy man.

As far as envy goes, i don't envy those who do nothing but leech off of everyone else. I suppose though since others can do it and i can't then it makes me moderately angry. But seriously what if everyone went on wellfare? Nothing would get done ever and who would pay for your wellfare then? If everyone followed this example and just took advantage then there would be no more wellfare and we would all live in poverty. I can't say that i would hate that though, because then we would all be on the same page and there would no longer be seperate sets of people with seperate ideals on how to scam the rest of them.

That said, like you, i don't work that much. I am 22 and i have had many different jobs in my life cause i don't like to work either. The difference between us is that i never, for lack of a job, ask other people for handouts because i am not so weak as to have to rely on others for my own survival.
_________________________
~~Baphomit666~~
"In night i see the real, concealed by days blinding lie"

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#1899 - 11/14/07 06:02 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Baphomit666]
Samuel Hain Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: arkansas
People below a certain IQ should not be allowed to have children.This is about elitism, not racism.
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#1906 - 11/14/07 07:18 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Baphomit666]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
fair enough, i was not disabled either thought. i had a choice keep living in foster homes or live on my own at 16,befor i could leave i was assigned a worker and a check and that was it.
i was basscilly handed money,would you turn it down? when i turned 18 i was so used to getting free money why change it witch by that point i usaly bought dope and sold for a tidy profit but thats neither here nor their.the funny thing is that would never happen man,people feel guilty,feel the need to slave for thier life , so not everyone even if they could would take free money.

i personally dont live for the collective i live for me,im the most selfish perosn i know and proud of it, and what ever enrichs or makes my life better easyer and so on. at that point in my life what made my life better was a not doing shit and sell dope and partying i have absoulty no guilt aobut taking money from the facless masses to make my life better. so you dont like work either yet feel guilted by the collective into working.what you consider weak ,i consider smart, weak to me is buying into that guilt and the programing and working like a dog every day of your life till you die beacuse socitey tell you that you have to.

let me ask you a question baphomit666 if you could make the same amount that you make now while not working would you?

you only live once,to do the least amount of work for the most amount of money and enjoy your self is my idea of a successful life not working like a slave,misrable, till im 60 and then cant even enjoy it fuck that..but to each his own.

so you dont work that much by your own addmission, yet have never taken free money, how did you pay your rent when you where not working out of curosity?
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#1909 - 11/14/07 07:37 PM Re: Sicko [Re: rob_church]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
i hate work.im all about fun most of that money i blew partying
that whole mentailty of work work work till you die is weak in my opion if i can get sompthng for free i will take it.


Your kidding right?

You are the object lesson as to why people argue against social safety nets.

Remember, the cheese in the trap is always free. A govt that can give you everything you want is usually in a position to take everything you have.

Personally, I like to live above the poverty line - way above it! So, I work. Fortunately, I do work that I find interesting. I don't feel like I am 'slaving' I feel like I am living. One of the tenets of Satanism is to live a 'vital existence.' Sitting around a crappy apartment, half stoned all the time, waiting for the govt to send you a check is NOT living a vital existence.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#1911 - 11/14/07 08:05 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
to each his own.. i view a vital existance to be what ever makes my life better easyer or enjoyable what ever makes me happy to be alive and as i stated at that point in my life that was to hang out indulge my self relax and sell dope.

ahh but it was me taking what i wanted form the goverment, i was not disabled i could easly have found work,i choose insted to manipulate the system to my advantage, i find it funny how manipulation and being able to turn somtphing to your advantage is exalted among satanist's until its happing to them or money coming out of their pocket, then its the great evil lol
manipulation is manipluation, making you life easyer be it on your boss,or your country.


and yes i have used my talent to make my hobby my occupation as well
so i dont consider that work either:)
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#1913 - 11/14/07 09:05 PM Re: Sicko [Re: rob_church]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
...until its happing to them or money coming out of their pocket,...


And it is this reason that govt should NOT be in the business of subsidising other people's existence.

By any objective sense you live like a bum. You have blunted your sense of vitality. When was the last time you had a fine meal that did not come out of a paper sack?

I firmly believe that marijuana has become the "Soma" that Aldous Huxley warned about.

From the Wikipedia entry for "Brave New World" -

"The world the novel describes is a utopia, albeit an ironic one: humanity is carefree, healthy and technologically advanced. Warfare and poverty have been eliminated and everyone is permanently happy due to government-provided stimulation. The irony is that all of these things have been achieved by eliminating many things that humans consider to be central to their identity — family, culture, art, literature, science, religion, and philosophy. It is also a hedonistic society, deriving pleasure from promiscuous sex and drug use, especially the use of soma, a powerful drug taken to escape pain and bad memories through hallucinatory fantasies. Additionally, stability has been achieved and is maintained via deliberately engineered and rigidly enforced social stratification."

Sound familiar?...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#1914 - 11/14/07 09:25 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Fist]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
lol you seem to think im poor,last meal i had was at wok with chan wonderful chinese, food nice eviroment and ginger beef to die for,even back then i was not poor, took that money and bought drugs and turned a profit ,a bum is begging for money no home,i am far from that even now im talented ,sexy ,have a gourgus wife ,2 cats a great life,for some reason fist you equate thouse that are smart enought to make joe blow work for me in esscnce, as having a dulled view of vitality. does work = living to you? if so in my opion that is sad.

fuck utopia i live for me not for the collective i am only here once and i will make the most of of my life here no matter how many facless robots,fools, or thosue brainwashed into beliving sociteys bullshit that i have to trample to do that.
but as i said to each his own.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#1917 - 11/15/07 12:25 AM Re: Sicko [Re: rob_church]
Baphomit666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 13
Loc: Taunton-Mass-USA
Rob i will say that if someone handed me money and said "here this is for you", i would probably take it. The thing is i would not keep returning to suckle from the same teet. I don't work because i feel guilty, but because for me to be happy i need to be doing something productive.

I agree with fist in that living a "vital existance" is more important than just living. Working does not = living to me. It simply gives a sense that i am bettering what i consider to be a life that should be lived to get the "most out of". Rather than making the most out of what people will give you.

P.S. hey fist how do you put the quotes in the quote boxes in your posts?
_________________________
~~Baphomit666~~
"In night i see the real, concealed by days blinding lie"

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#2205 - 11/24/07 06:40 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Baphomit666]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I think this whole conversation is a prime example of the fact that people really are individuals and what qualifies as living a fulfilling life to one may be equally as unfulfilling as the other. I’ve never known any 16 year-old with a great ambition to jump into the work force or even have a clear understanding of what it is they want to do with their lives. And when living with parents isn’t an option, given the choice of foster care versus living on your own with your own money, I think any Satanic-minded individual would choose the latter. I’m not sure how it works on a province to province basis in Canada, but I know at least here in Ontario for a minor to go on welfare they have to attend school regularly until the age of 18.

Yes, it does create of safety net for some individuals. Junkies and welfare moms and those sorts of people with lesser ambitions in life have no problem with living below the poverty line. I’d like to think that the majority of society would want to rise above that and experience the finer things in life, but I don’t have the statistics of how many people are on welfare or living in poverty as a result of lacking ambition and even self-respect.

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#2206 - 11/24/07 07:09 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Fist]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I haven’t read “Brave New World” but it sounds like an interesting novel. And if I had to take a guess I would say that this “soma” sounds a lot more like opium than it does marijuana. How though does the author explain a society of people regularly living out “hallucinatory fantasies” being void of that which is artistic? One would think that a natural side effect of living in a promiscuous sex and drug filled world would be that great artistic visions and accomplishments would be one the rise. From a historical perspective, the two have almost always gone hand in hand. Van Gough drank absinthe, Freud snorted cocaine, opium dens were always filled with sex and hallucinatory fantasies that often came to life and planted the seeds of artistic visions. Are the people in this novel brainwashed, or has the government found a way to naturally eliminate the artistic impulse in people for the so-called greater good?
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#2208 - 11/24/07 07:39 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Succubus666]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Almost daily, I have to deal with some pothead dullard that starts it's sentences with "Ahhhh" or "Ummmm" or "Whaaat." Not that I have anything against drugs, but most people are simply average and possess average intelligence. They can ill afford to have their wits dulled any further.

Yes, history is full of very creative people who have used drugs. Again, brilliant people can afford to experiment with drugs. And, it only stands to reason that a highly creative person would seek as many new sensations and experiences as possible. However.... *long pause* .... most people are not that creative! They are simply high. The chances are quite good that your average pothead, crackhead, or junkie is not going to be the second coming of the Dutch Masters.

All the same, read "Brave New World" for yourself. Tell me what you took away from it. But, to answer your question, Soma acts more like a mood stabilizer that retards motivation and thus makes the population unambitious and easily controlled. In many ways it acts more like Prozac or Marijuana where people can use it and still handle routine chores.

As for promiscuous sex...

This really needs it's own thread, but, I really think some reflection needs to be done on this. In general, most people are not centered enough to engage in the practice. Honestly, think of all of the most promiscuous people you know. Perhaps you have noticed that they have 'other issues.' The 'Summer of Love' left more scars on the psyche of Baby Boomer than they care to admit. It was more about exploitation than 'free love.'

But what would I know...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#2211 - 11/24/07 08:39 PM Re: Sicko [Re: Fist]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I suppose I’ve never really considered the perceptions of the dullard or those with lower levels of intelligence or motivation. Frankly, I’ve always made a point to stay away from stupid people as I have a very low level of tolerance when it comes to dealing with the willingly ignorant. And being that I own my own business and work from home, it does somewhat decrease the amount of exposure I have to those sort of people so I don’t have much of an opportunity to perceive or reflect on their stupidity.

I’ve always been a very artistic person, one who consistently scored in the above average class when it came to intellect and schooling. So as I grew up among western civilization my exposure to mind-altering substances always centered around the creative experience. I liked the eroticism behind certain experiences with these substances and with lovers. I liked the stimulation of thought and reason with other substances, and I don’t mind admitting that some of the ideas these “drug experimentation experiences” brought forth to me made me thousands of dollars. There were other things I liked about being able to experiment and experience, but I won’t go into them all here.

All of this was done in a relatively controlled setting with knowledge and awareness. Things like addiction, dependence or a resulting lack of ambition never came to mind as that was never who I was. I’ve never thought of drugs as a thing which in themselves make people stupid. Stupid people may go out and look for ways to enhance that aspect of themselves, just as intelligent people may go out and do the same. What I’d like to say is that “drugs should not be condemned as a negative aspect of society as the choice and utilization of that choice lies within the individual,” but when I force myself to take a broader look at the inhabitants of this society my confidence wanes when confronted with the question of how many of them would be able to maintain use in moderation, or self-control on any other level for that matter.

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