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#5946 - 03/19/08 08:37 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Xutech Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Australia
I'm sorry Shipley, you're either a Freemason or you're not. And furthermore, if you have started a group, and apply your own rules, you are following "man made bullshit". I would take a dim view of anyone from your club.

Some People still take their vows of silence seriously, for whichever reason. Don't Freemasons take a vow of silence?

As a member of the Left hand path, I don't agree with Freemasonry. I understand it's integral didactic value, but it does teach submission to god, and it does teach submission to society and a set moral value. I don't think it has any place on the left hand path as a tool or brotherhood. A member applies on the understanding that they believe in god (not defined).

While it is up to the choice of the individual as to what they believe, I have never felt that submission to a higher power has been a part of either Satanism or the left handed journey.

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#5955 - 03/19/08 09:08 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: Xutech]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
I have never felt that Freemasonry teaches submission in any form. Submission would imply that you are conducting yourself in a manner opposed to your true will. Freemasonry, among many things, attempts to put you in touch with your true will.

Again, the Supreme Being is referred to in a philosophical manner not a religious sense the religion, if that is what you want to call it, is up to the individual. An individual could also hold the Satanic Bible as their sacred text, or mayhap The Book of The Law.

You also need to be careful when using the terms 'morals' and 'values'. Freemasonry encourages the individual to have principals or values while appreciating if the majority of those values do not disrupt common morality to a point of ridicule. If this were the case, you would never be initiated.


M.'.T.'.
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#5957 - 03/19/08 09:32 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: Xutech]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Xutech
but it does teach submission to god, and it does teach submission to society and a set moral value. I don't think it has any place on the left hand path as a tool or brotherhood.


As you said: "You're either a Freemason, or you're not."
How is it that a guy who has never taken the degrees of freemasonry... never Speculated on its symbolism... who exists psychologically Out Side the Temple, could know what Freemasonry teaches its initiates behind closed doors?

"rebellion against tyranny is obedience to God." as on Freemason stated. This would have been America's motto. That statement is the complete opposite of submission to anything.

Do you know how many Freemasons turned against the religions of their days and claimed Deism? Do you know how many Freemasons turned against the society of day - the most powerful Empire on earth - risked their lives and revolted for Liberty? Do you know how many Freemasons during the French revolution went around turning crosses upside down, slaughtering clergy, and burning churches down?

Are you talking about the same Freemasonry? Just cuz a few mediocre pansies join Freemasonry, doesn't mean Freemasonry teaches submission to state or religion.

If you have time and a way. Kessenger Publication has a book called Light On Masonry. This book is a facsimile of one written in 1821. It contains most of the Degree work verbatim. Take a look at the Pre-Pike 28th Degree of Knight of the Sun, and tell me thats teaching submission.


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/19/08 09:33 PM)
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#5959 - 03/19/08 10:05 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: Xutech]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
And one more thing:
 Originally Posted By: Xutech
I don't think it has any place on the left hand path as a tool or brotherhood.


The First Step of an Entered Apprentice is with the Left Foot.
When he has taken his obligation he is placed in the North East
Corner, as a Rough Ashlar, ready to be refined. At that corner as he stands to his right is the North which is a place of perpetual darkness; to his left is the East - the source of Light. The Worshipful Master then calls him to Travel East. He must walk the Left Hand Path towards the East if he is to find the Light he seeks.

Freemasonry is a progressive science, as it defines itself. Freemasonry is Geometry as it also defines itself. In the second degree Geometry is explained to the initiate, as it means in Freemasonry. It begins with a point, then a line; then a superfice... but the science is incomplete without depth making a solid. This hints that there is a superficial meaning to Masonic words and symbols, which, if a Mason understands his craft right, sees past it with depth and speculation, for the true meanings.

I'll include a portion of an essay I wrote for some friends:

The ancient Egyptian word NETER (NTR) means both a GOD and a WATCHER, that is one who sees or watches. In Sanskrit the word NETRA mean's an EYE. Coincidently in Irish the old Gaelic word SEAN means both a SEER or one who sees, and a STONE MASON. In Greek the Word Watcher is GRIGORY, which begins with the letter G or Gamma, just as the words GEO (earth) and GNOMON (a mason's square).

A man by the name of James Bruce (a descendent of Robert the Bruce, and 33rd degree Mason from Scotland) traveled to Ethiopia, and there discovered a lost extra-biblical book still used and read by the Ethioptic Jews (the Falasha) there called The Book of Enoch. This same book was brought back to Scotland where it sat in the Scottish Rite Temple for about 30 years, before it was mass published for public consumption. (Enoch by the way was said to be one of two men who found one of the two pillars after the great flood, so our ancient poems states).

The books deals with certain parts of the Book of Genisis, specifically about Noah and his times, but goes into more detail.
The detail is about an Angelic Race called the Watchers that fell to the earth to "corrupt" mankind. I'll give a summary of the story since it has some very interesting correlations with certain portions of our initiation ceremonies.
The story takes place during the time of Noah's grandfather Jared. The cheif of the Watchers called SHEMYAZA (meaning Heavenly Goat) or sometimes AZAZEL (meaning Strong or Viral Goat) wanders about the Earth and notices that mankind is living like beasts of burden, sleeping on the grass and screwing animals (I'm paraphrasing the story in my own words...you'll have to read it yourself, my version is mixed with some of the Talmud and Koran).

Shemyaza feels sorry for mankind and wonders why God made these pathetic creatures in the first place...it's just strange to him that they look like Angels, being created in God's likeness, but yet left in the dark, and permitted to live in such destitute and depraved conditions.
Shemyaza approaches the other Watchers and says: "I'm going to steel the Fire of Heaven, I'm going to go down there, and I am going enlighten those poor creatures, and make them equal to us..."

His angels replied saying that to take the Fire of Heaven and give it to mankind is a crime and punishable by death, for God did say that what is in Heaven belongs to Heaven, and what is of the Earth belongs to the Earth. And Shemyaza says: "Very well, I will do it alone, and I will take the blame for it." But most of his angels love him and are loyal to him and they follow him and say they will help enlighten mankind.

Shemyaza and 200 of his Angels descend into the earth. And the first place they set foot on was a Mountain named Mount Hermon (meaning Cursed in hebrew). They gather at the summit of Mount Hermon called Ardis which means the High Place and Shemyaza speaks to his brothers saying:" What we are about to embark upon is a crime, and we may end up dying for the crime we will commit. I am willing to die for this cause, but I fear that some of you will back away out of fear of death and tell God or stop the project."

In reply, all 200 of his angels said to Shenyaza that they sware that they will go through with it till the end, and to keep their activities on earth a secret, even if it means death. And Shemyaza then said, very well then, let us take an Oath of Fidelity to the cause on this Mountain, to remamber our brotherhood and the reason we came her, before we take on human form. And that day on the summit of Mount Hermon Shemyaza and 200 fallen angels fell on their knees and took an Oath of fidelity and brotherhood...and that is why the mountain was named the Cursed Mountian in Hebrew.

The angels each then seperated and went different ways taking on human form and human wives, blending in with the population. Each Watcher was skilled in one of the Fires or Wisdoms of Heaven and each were going to secretly impart that Wisdom to mankind in secret, lest they be caught by God and destroyed. Some of the Watchers began teaching mankind the Art of Reading and Writing; some taught mankind how to build cities; some taught Geometry and Astronomy and all the measurments of the stars; some taught botany and what herbs cured what illnesses; some taught woman how to abort their unwanted fetuses; others taught mankind mathamatics and Music; but Shemyaza saved the greatest Art for him self to teach...the Art of Beauty. Shemyaza (Azazel) taught women and men about METALURGY, how to find ore and smelt it and make jewelry out of it and adorn their bodies with it. He taugh women how to make make up and perfume and nice clothing.

In time the earth began to change. Cities began cropping up, schools, and maybe even strip clubs and the like. And the human race also began to change, with their newly found skill of reading, law making, science...they became more intelligent, and able to think for themselves, and question their reality.
By now the Watchers; who have disguised themselves as men and have married human girls) had children running around called Giborim who were helping their fathers to teach and enlighten the human race in secret.

And so as time passed, one day the Arch Angel Michael happened to pass by the earth, he looked down upon it and said: "What the hell!?" Because he noticed the earth was different. Now Michael and Azazel had sibling rivalry for each other, each trying to be the favorite of God; Micheal being the second born was a major ass kisser. Micheal concluded that this can only be the work of one being...Shemyaza! He went to God and told on Shemyaza:" Father, Azazel stole the Fire of Heaven, gave it to mankind, and enlightened them; now they are reading and writing, building cities...now they not only look like us, but they are as wise as us! If you don't stop your favorite son he will eventually give them the fruit from the tree of life and they will live forever like us angels and then they will be equal to us!"

God became angry, and screamed out from Heaven to Shemyaza: "I really hate you now; look at what you've done. This is the last straw."

In the Book of Enoch Shemyaza begins to now point his finger at God and a whole page an a have is dedicated to all the bad names he calls God, saying things like, you only created them to worhip you, a slave to your egotism, I was a better father to them, I enlightened them, and made them equal to me...
God commands Michael to gather all the Hosts of heaven and gather them, their wives, and children, to Mount Hermon where they first fell on and wait there for instructions...and the War in Heaven Begins.

Shemyaza and his meager 200 angels and their children take up arms against a hoard of Angels. Michael goes for Shemyaza, and a long sword fight in the sky is faught between them.
Now shemyaza wore armour made of metal, and a golden crown. And on that crown was his jewel, which was a large emerald. As he faught with Michael, Michael's sword hits Azazel's crown and the Emerald falls to the earth. Shemyaza is out numbered, and gives up, and he and his angels and their wives and children are braght to Mount Hermon and wait for God.

God approaches the Mountain, and looks at Shemyaza, and asks him: "Repent, and pleade for forgiveness, and admit that you have done wrong, and all will be forgiven Shemyaza."
Shemyaza says to God that he will not repent because he has done nothing wrong. And God says to his angels : "Slaughter their wives and children before their eyes." And after the wives and children had been slaughtered, God asks Shemyaza a second time: "Repent Shemyaza and just admit you had done wrong and you will be able to come home." And Shemyaza says to God that he will not repent because he had done nothing wrong. And God commanded his angels to sluaghter Shemyaza's Watchers before his eyes.
God asks Shemyaza a third time: " Just say sorry and come home, and we can start over, just say I'm sorry..."

Shemyaza says: " I will not, kill me, because it is to late. They will continue building their cities, learning, making their own Laws, even when I am gone. They will one day learn of your true nature and turn there backs on you. Kill me.

God then commands his angel to inform Noah that there will be a flood that will kill every living creature on the Earth and for him to build a boat to save himself and his family because Noah was the only man that remained pure and that was not corrupted by Shemyaza and his angels. The flood happens and murders everyone. And God looks at Shemyaza and says:" It is finished; The earth will start anew as it was in the beginning, washed clean from your corruption. you have worked in vain. Repent Shemyaza and come home, I will forgive you." Shemyaza refuses to repent and tell God to Kill him.

God says:" No; I will not; I have something better for you;" he commands Michael:" strip him of his metal and jewelry; strip him naked; hang him upside down between heaven and earth with in the constellation Orion, bind him with rope; and blind fold him, that he may never see the LIGHT of day again (which is actually what the Book of Enoch says his punishment was). And Michael did as he was told...and there to this day Azazel hangs upside down within the constellation Orion tied with rope and blind folded, naked and unclothed.

But what does this story of Shemyaza have anything to do with Freemasonry?? I will show you some points where this story of the Watchers and Freemasonry coincidently touches:

1) Rosslyn Chaple in Scotland, said to have Templar and Masonic symbols in it, coincidently, there is actually a statue of shemyaza hanging upside down from the ceiling bond by rope...the same chapel has a etching of a knight initiating a man with an apron on between two pillars. The chapel was built 400 years before the Book of Enoch was discovered and this story known to Europeans or Scottish builders...

2) Arabic and Talmudic legend states that KING SOLOMON (who is a very important character in Freemasonry) rode on a giant Eagle to the Constellation Orion to meet with Azazel to have Azazel (Shemyaza) give him the wisdom of Heaven, which he used to build his TEMPLE. Legend says that Azazel taught King Solomon how to control one of Azazel's Watchers named Asmodeus with water to build his temple for him.

3) Like Shemyaza, we are stripped of all metals, and our clothing removed, we are bound by a rope, and blindfolded...and lead into the the lodge...

4) as we circumabulate around the Altar, which is the Center of the Lodge, and our High Place because we place our 3 Great Light on it a very strange passage is read out of the bible which has nothing to do whatsoever with the craft of building:
"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down the beard, even Aaron's beard: that WENT DOWN to the skirts of his garments; as the dew of HERMON, and as the dew that DESCENDED upon the mountains of Zion..."
Of all the biblical passages to read to a candidate, a passage that speaks of descending and going down, and Hermon...of all mountains...is read? and what happens after this passage about Mount Hermon is read?

5) like the Watchers that descended on Hermon; we Masons kneel and take an Oath...the same kind of Oath the Watchers took...at the Alter or our High Place...

6) If Shemyaza were cut down, after his eyes were bounded for so many eons, and some one asked him "Having been in a state of Darkness, what do you most desire?" what do you think Azazel would say? the same thing we say when we are asked: "LIGHT."

7) And when the blind fold had been removed what did we behold? Three lights, a Volume of Sacred Law, a Square and Compass...the 3 lesser lights being the 3 stars in Orion's belt...the VSL...dare I say: the one who condemned Azazel for his "crime"...the Square and Compass his place where he was sentenced to spend an eternity: between Heaven and earth...the Square (Gnomon) being a tool used in plane Geometry only, represents the Earth (Geo). The Compass, draws arches...the arch of heaven, circles...heavenly bodies; and is a tool used to measure the degrees between stars and heavenly bodies...the Compass represents Heaven. And the G in between the Square and Compass coincidently also stands for GRIGORY...that is Watcher in Greek.

8) And when we are passed into our Fellowcraft degree what really long and boring lecture do we hear? A long lecture about the SEVEN SACRED ARTS AND SCIENCES... the same thing the Watchers were condemned for teaching mankind.

9) The Masonic Patron Saints are John the Baptist and John the Evangelist (also called John the Divine)... how many of the brethren knew that JOHN in Arabic is YAHYA and that Yahya also means GOAT?

The Square and Compass is placed on the Holy Books for a reason:
These are both tools of measurement. The square represents Moral Law. It is a tool used in plain geometry. The shape of a square symbolizes the earth. This is Natural Law. When an angle is measured by a square and its a perfect 90 degrees the angle is said to be "True and Tested" (Mark Mason Degree). The Compass represents Reason and circumspection.

Both of these tools are placed on the holy writings to admonish the mason to use these tools to Try and Test the book with the Law of nature, reason, and circumspection. What is not square is "untrue" and "not right" angled.


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/19/08 10:06 PM)
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#6014 - 03/20/08 02:59 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Xutech Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Australia
I understand, and this is why I have been careful to state that my words have been "my opinion" and "my understanding". I will, however, say that I have some done reading and some learning in my time too, and my opinions were formed on that.

However, all that aside, I like the fact that you have formed your opinions based on research.

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#7158 - 04/04/08 03:13 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: delusion]
Nubeth666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 8
Loc: san diego
i have a question on a specific ritual i heard about that the masons practice. is it true one of thier rituals actually uses a the symbol of the baphomet which coincides with what the templars practiced and was murdered for?this same ritual is also known as the stifling air in the satanic rituals are their simularities to these rituals?

Edited by Nubeth666 (04/04/08 03:14 AM)
Edit Reason: mispell
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#7159 - 04/04/08 03:43 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: Nubeth666]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
That is a very good lesson on this subject,most do not understand the masons,think they are evil people.Little do these people know we built the foundation to the big cities,small towns,everywhere in this country and others.Every society has the secret society,roman catholics equals free-masonry.The church fails to realize it was these underground society's who built them to power,then only to demonize us as wicked or bad people.
All the big wig judges,doctors,lawers around in tenneessee have ties to the masons.The law is enforced by my people in this small town.The judges are really involved.I will not disclose but I know 2personally.We built this country!


"The rebels forevermore"

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#7160 - 04/04/08 03:46 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
P.s.The typing is the shi##,thank you luciferific!
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#7161 - 04/04/08 03:57 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
I did not see the criticizing above,I dig it!I think you can incorp,magick into science,wicca into freemasons,satanic into church.If it was not for the left-hand there would not be the right,It's all enter-sandman.I do not force people to believe how I do.They can keep there personals to themselves,but face the cold-hard truth,without the left-hand path,the religious right would not have power,vice-versa.right washes left,left washes right.3degrees of power with candle-wicca/pegan rites.
I love a debate!!!!!

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#7224 - 04/05/08 01:44 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: Nubeth666]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Nubeth666
i have a question on a specific ritual i heard about that the masons practice. is it true one of thier rituals actually uses a the symbol of the baphomet which coincides with what the templars practiced and was murdered for?this same ritual is also known as the stifling air in the satanic rituals are their simularities to these rituals?


There are no Baphomets used any where in the Blue Degrees, York Rite degrees, or Scottish Rite degrees.

What you maybe referring to is a star used in the Eastern Star? This star isn't the baphomet, and the Eastern Star is not a part of Freemasonry. In malecraft Masonry it is mostly for women married to or associated with a mason.

~Kayla
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#7977 - 04/19/08 11:59 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Xutech Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Australia
Isaak is certainly a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
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#7981 - 04/19/08 12:30 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: Xutech]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Xutech
Isaak is certainly a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

He was interesting. He had a very poetic mindscape... last time i heard from him he said he was going to walk himself to the nearest city to find a Kinkos to put his pix up for me to see him... I hope he's ok.

K
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#7990 - 04/19/08 07:45 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 268
Loc: New Mexico
Ok looking? rofl....sorry...
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#7991 - 04/19/08 07:50 PM Re: Freemasons [Re: 97and107]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
Ok looking? rofl....sorry...



lol. I don't know, he was giving me a one page description of himself, then he said he was going to the nearest city by him because he lived in the boondocks, so he can find someplace to scan his pictures and show me, so i'll know how beautiful he was; because he told me two beautiful people should be together, lol. I think he got lost?

K


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/19/08 07:51 PM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#8001 - 04/20/08 12:01 AM Re: Freemasons [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
One night while stationed in Korea, I decided to go out strolling after ingesting a large amount of tequila. I made it about a block away from the barracks, where I had been living for well over 6 months. I got lost. I stumbled around and swore I was miles away from my bed. I ended up sleeping in the ditch. When I awoke, I found out I was probably 100 yards from my barracks. Could this same fate have befallen our fellow wanderer?
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