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#16423 - 12/18/08 01:39 AM 4 Crowned Princes of Hell
satanicfly87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Thomson, Georgia
If someone could indulge me for just a moment. I was reading through the Satanic Bible and I came across the 4 Crowned Princes of Hell. In my opinion, TSB does not do a great job describing exactly what they are and information on the internet about it is scarce.

I was wondering if they represent areas of human life/experience (such as Leviathan representing sex and passion) or are they just areas of the subconscious mind? Any opinions as to what they are and how you came up with that would be much appreciated.
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#16424 - 12/18/08 02:23 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
Actually I read a while ago in some occult book that the "Infernal Hierarchy" could be interpreted in terms of psychological needs and desires, and layers of the mind.

In any case, the version used in TSB is pretty much all there is to the "Four Crown Princes". As far as I know, LaVey was the first person to use that specific ranking system and include those four beings and their elemental counterparts.

I found a little more info here..
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/crownprinces.html This page actually goes so far as to draw correlations with Freudian concepts such as the Id, Ego, and Superego.

Try looking up some more info on wiki or something if you're interested in looking further. I'm sure you could draw out some more symbolism, perhaps if you even want to incorporate the Goetic hierarchy of Governers, Dukes, etc. (although that could get quite complicated)
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#16425 - 12/18/08 02:27 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: The Zebu]
satanicfly87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Thomson, Georgia
Thanks for your response Zebu. Actually, I have already used the website you posted as a resource and it just gave me correspondences, which is pretty much all there is to it I guess. That's my original impression that they represented human drives.
Thanks again!
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"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven" -J. Milton, "Paradise Lost."

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#16426 - 12/18/08 03:10 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
The idea of LaVey using the Four Crowned Princes of Hell in the Invocation is a symbolic unification of parts to form the whole. Each corresponds to the elements of Earth Wind Fire and Air, and all are made one by the celebrant, calling upon the forces of nature itself to the aid of the celebrant in his rituals. It's an exercise in tradition, imagery and stage-setting for the ritual to follow.

The whole of the 13 Steps is preparation of mind and space (as in location) for the ritualized procedures which follow in the conjurations of lust, of compassion and of destruction. "Getting your mind right..." for entering the Intellectual Decompression Chamber that is the ritual.


Edited by Jake999 (12/18/08 03:15 AM)
Edit Reason: Added 2nd para... hit button early.
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#16427 - 12/18/08 03:32 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Jake999]
satanicfly87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Thomson, Georgia
So, I would assume by reading TSB that there are generally 3 types of magic rituals that are done. As long as you do the 13 steps (which is a must?) you can add anything you want?
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#16429 - 12/18/08 03:59 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
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Most requests for rituals would fall under Compassion, Lust or Destruction. A ritual is a highly individualized thing within those three categories. One size definitely does not fit all, and the rituals as described in The Satanic Bible are for demonstration. You would have to build your own ritual to suit your needs, or that of the supplicant. What I might come up with for a Conjuration of Compassion might be very different from what any number of others might come up with in working with the same client.

The invocations for Lust, Compassion and Destruction are read before your individualized ritual is enacted, to "set the stage."
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#16431 - 12/18/08 05:09 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Jake999]
satanicfly87 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Thomson, Georgia
Ah ok, gotcha.
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#16436 - 12/18/08 11:01 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
Maybe a stupid thought or some will call this link farfetched/too obvious to mention but:
4 crownprinces of hell VS 4 riders of the apocalypse..

As far as I'm concerned they can be linked to the 4 elements earth, water, air, fire. And those elements again to all the different kind of emotions.
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#16486 - 12/18/08 07:33 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
paolo sette Offline
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Dr. LaVey intended them to be seperate, individual beings (to the best of my knowledge) with our dark Lord as Satan.
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#16488 - 12/18/08 07:56 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: paolo sette]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: paolo sette
Dr. LaVey intended them to be seperate, individual beings (to the best of my knowledge) with our dark Lord as Satan.

The best of your knowledge fails miserably.


If you would have bothered to read the thread before posting, you would already know that.
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#16603 - 12/21/08 05:24 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Invoking the "Four Crown Princes of Hell" is all part of the psychodrama, aimed specifically at placing the Operator into a state of suspended reality so he/she can work up enough genuine adrenal force and emotion to project the desired outcome of the Ritual on to the potential target.. It isn't about calling forth four rather evil looking dudes to assist you in your Ritual, it's just all "part of the act"to get you in the mood, writing a personal script and giving it everything you've got- invoking the 4CPH is just the opening act to prepare you for the thrilling performance to follow....
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#16606 - 12/21/08 08:22 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: spiderbreeder]
lianna666diaboli Offline
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Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Washington, DC
Jake and spiderbreeder you both aptly mirror Anton LaVey's purpose for the Invocation. However, it is my experience that this invocation is much, much more than just the spawning of the adrenal force.

There is a purpose for the invocations of the ancients, this who have used them quite successfully to interact with Daemons, Satan and the Immortal. It has been my personal experience for over 16 years that when invocations occur, Hell is entirely and powerfully responsive. Things happen when Hell interacts with us that are at times beyond words, and the adrenal response you mention is overwhelming at times. This is not some personally invoked manifestation entirely. There is a real interaction with Hell that occurs.

To those whom Satan can detect as genuine, sincere and passionate, He empowers. They are afforded the ability to interact formally at first, then instinctively as the Infernal Alignment or Possession occurs.

A very precious and essential element of this evolution is an event of surrender and commitment of faith of the essence, which is mind, body, and soul, innermost will. This is the Blood Covenant, also known as the Blood Pact.

This is a passionate formal ceremony that is not to be done flippantly or without forethought. This is an irreversible covenant with Satan and the Infernal Realm. Once this occurs, the soul is elevated and exposed to even more profound interactions and powers bestowed by Satan. When you become under this covenant, much of what you become is instinct and passion, because Satan lives within all of you. You will be responsive to Satan, and He will to you. Those of you destined to complete this covenant have already felt something with these words I have written. You already know who and what you are.

spiderbreeder, it is my innermost desire and hunger that drives the passionate invocations I utter to Satan. This is what drives mt to reverently utter the invocations and passionate praise and prayer that makes rituals and worship so productive and beautifully fulfilling

Gloriam Satanae
lianna

[b][/b]

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#16610 - 12/21/08 10:23 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
Ringmaster Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Ummmmmmmmmmm, OK? So I take it you are into the whole demon worshipping scene? Please enlighten me on how you are capable of interacting with hell.

 Quote:
Those of you destined to complete this covenant have already felt something with these words I have written. You already know who and what you are.


Yes we know what we are and it had nothing to do with your headache causing writing. What honestly makes you fathom that your writing has anything to do with how anyone views themselves?
Covenant? What covenant? You mean how I live my life? If so it has nothing to do with the pointless calls to some external diety. Damn I wish wisdom and knowledge came as easy as writing my signiture in blood on some old wrinkly piece of paper. That would've made shit so much easier.

 Quote:
This is what drives mt to reverently utter the invocations and passionate praise and prayer that makes rituals and worship so productive and beautifully fulfilling


Sounds counterproductive to me. Hold on let me try...

IN THE NAME OF SATAN I SIGN MY NAME GIVE ME POWER AND WISDOM!!!!

Damn nothing.
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#16613 - 12/21/08 11:09 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Dude, I don't mingle too much into ritual and such but first, quit the red fonts. Sure it seems bloody or hellish and thus seriously satanic I suppose but on a forum it just is a pain in the ass to read.
Second, I smell some brotherhood of satan alike crap, your youtube page kinda affirmed it. Psychodrama and such I can live with but having a teaparty with demons and the darkdude himself seriously makes me question your mind. There is intelligent theistic Satanism out there but it seems you didn't discover it yet.

D.

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#16615 - 12/21/08 11:15 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Ringmaster]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well said RM.

Looking at her myspace I see yet another boring black and red 'spooky' picture laden yawnfest soundtracked by...how cliche.. black metal. Yet another angst ridden teen(?) theist. How very unremarkable.

I think she made a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
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#16616 - 12/21/08 11:18 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Posts: 3888
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 Quote:

There is intelligent theistic Satanism out there but it seems you didn't discover it yet.

Neither have I. Where are they hiding it?


Half joking half not. What exactly would you qualify as intelligent theism? (doesn't have to be Satanism)
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#16618 - 12/21/08 11:21 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Posts: 4997
What I would qualify? Hmm, something that considers theism as a form and thus a tool.

D.

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#16620 - 12/21/08 11:27 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Theism implies and necessitates a very real belief in a living deity of some sort that can be interacted with.This can only function on faith, which flies in the face of reason/logic. (the basis of what we consider 'intelligence')

Unless you mean something different by intelligent, I don't know what you mean. I also don't know what you mean by form/tool in this context.
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#16623 - 12/21/08 11:39 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I wouldn't go so far as to call every part of Satanism that uses a theistic perspective to explain their drive or motivation as inherently stupid.

I could pretty well explain my Satanism out of a theistic perspective, as I could out of a satanless atheistic perspective. I maybe even could out of a biblical christian perspective. I do however choose the simple and down-to-earth rational perspective but I am not limited to this choice. That's what I call form, the wrapping of the package. In some ways it doesn't matter too much how you wrap the package, as long as the content is solid. You'll lose some because of the form and you gain some purely because of the form but essentially, when you are deliberately using a certain form, you are communicating with those that can look beyond the form. You can say it's confusing things up to a degree and I admit that is indeed true but this confusion can be a shifting tool.

I nowadays make a habit of trying to find the content beyond the form. At times there is very little because many people don't understand the use of form and get lost inside it. They are glorifying the wrapping and do little more than produce more wrapping. They are incapable of diving deeper and go beyond the barrier that has been set up. Let's call them the shallow ones, a mind limited to go only a certain distance while others can dive right into the essence, communicate above the form or even in the form whenever they feel like it. In a way, see it as a coded message, some just don't have the key to break the code.

ONA as an example is without a doubt intelligent and they're not the only ones but a minority compared to the shallow form-addicts.

D.

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#16624 - 12/21/08 11:47 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Quote:

There is intelligent theistic Satanism out there but it seems you didn't discover it yet.

Neither have I. Where are they hiding it?


Half joking half not. What exactly would you qualify as intelligent theism? (doesn't have to be satanism)

Intelligent theism... maybe the sect-like people who commit suicide? At least they are intelligent enough to kill themselves so we wouldn't waste energy on them trying to break their illusive bubble..
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#16625 - 12/21/08 11:48 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I don't know, I see it a bit different. I don't see the theism/Atheism dichotomy in Satanism to be a matter of wrapping/superficiality but rather as the core issue.

In my mind Satanism hinges on a certain set of things, and excluding these things leaves something other than Satanism. One of these things is autotheism. The very core of being a Satanist is the exultation of ones own self, to propel ones own self to great things. To propel oneself to 'rise above' as it were. Rise above the masses that instead of focusing their will inwards, are subserving it to some imaginary nothing and perpetuating the cycle of mediocrity.

In my mind, 'theistic satanists' are no different whatsoever than theistic anything else. Same premises. Same faith. Same abdication of responsibility onto something else. Same glorification of being 'second banana' to something else.
Slave mentality.
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#16626 - 12/21/08 11:58 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Not really Dan, this is only the case when people are the form. I can be, believe to be or pretend to be. My form would be identical but my commitment to the form would be different.

If I want to communicate with someone out of my area here, I would shift to my local tongue and exclude all that aren't capable of understanding it. It's language and switching between languages whenever the need is there seems logical and reasonable to us. But you can do the same with form. If I only want to communicate with certain people, I could change my message accordingly. I could still write in plain english, I could still write things that seem understandable to most but at the same time, I could have my true communication wrapped inside and only accessible to those able to see it.

But I won't deny that there are a lot out there that are the form they use, most theistic Satanism is depressingly silly, no doubt about that.

D.

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#16630 - 12/21/08 12:34 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Not really Dan, this is only the case when people are the form. I can be, believe to be or pretend to be. My form would be identical but my commitment to the form would be different.

I realize utility is not identity, or that what you do and what you are are separate things. See my sig.
That IS what you are saying here right? I have honestly read your post 4 times now and I am not entirely sure what you are saying here.

Your metaphor about language I get, and I agree that situational context is always important to consider before you do something.

I don't really see how any of this conflicts with or relates to anything I wrote, though, as the first three words of your opening sentence seems to imply. I am a bit lost

I think we may be flying right past each other here.
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#16636 - 12/21/08 01:54 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I assume we are flying right past each other. Not really sure actually.

What I'm talking about is that one should not condemn all theistic Satanism directly because of its form. Condemn it when it is only form or maybe condemn the form itself but there is some out there that has got some pretty amazing stuff.
I'm not sure if you disregard anything theistic simply because it is theistic. If, I do advice you to reconsider that and analyse some. You'll encounter a lot of crap, undeniable but man, some stuff is good.

D.

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#16638 - 12/21/08 02:09 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I have to admit I do completely throw theism out the door, in all of it's forms, for reasons mostly outlined in my posts #16620/#16625 in this thread.

None of the reasons given therein have been addressed. I find my reasoning to be solid.


I really don't know what you mean by 'some of it is good'. Do you mean parts that exist independent of the belief system itself? like the rituals? Or do you mean there are 'good' ways to believe in 'imaginary friends'?

Do you see nothing wrong with forming beliefs out of thin air? The slippery slope that can lead to?
"one false belief is the beginning of all unwisdom"
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#16640 - 12/21/08 02:14 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Ringmaster Offline
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Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
I wouldn't condem the beliefs themselves simply because if someone believes it hell they believe it. I just find it counterproductive because I am an autotheist. Putting what I think to be blind faith into some external diety just seems foolish to me simply for the fact that there is no proof. Granted that arguement can used by both parties resulting in a circular unending "my beliefs are better" conversation.

There is nothing wrong with the belief of needing rituals and dogma in ones life. But I feel that it becomes counterproductive when the person uses it as a crutch to base reality off of. Sure rituals are sometimes used by autotheists but it is seen as mere role-playing, not as a reality. I have used the rituals as a way of venting out emotions. I don't expect some metaphsyical results popping up out of nowhere because of the way I said a group of words. The sheer power of words used in my rituals is enough to put my mind at ease.
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#16644 - 12/21/08 02:22 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It seems we are not flying past each other.

I understand what you react against, it's something I reacted against myself. The form can be appaling to people that are materialistic (as I am) or that prefer a non-bullshit context.
But at times one has to enter the bullshit to see the content behind it and this content can teach more than one realizes.

Think of how some people dislike Satanism and discard anything said because the form it is presented in, is satanic. Let it even be modern satanic if you like. Some will just say; stupid devilworshipers or social darwinian utopists and that's it. They just discard all info because of the form.
While we know there is a lot of valuable stuff to be found in Satanism for them able to comprehend it or think about it. But Satanism is a form that is such a huge barrier to some they can't pass it.

Theistic Satanism can be such a form too, some esoteric (gosh I hate that label) stuff is also a form. If you look at philosophy, it has lots of different forms, but still contains valuable information that can give pretty decent insights and help one on his path.

Think like in certain movies. Like The Matrix. To some it is just stupid Sci-Fi and they can't stand watching it. To some it's a cool action movie and others do find very interesting philosophical concepts or questions in it.

D.

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#16645 - 12/21/08 02:27 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ok I see what you are saying now, but I would really need an example of something useful or good to ever come from theistic Satanism. In my experience it is usually just an internally inconsistent and incoherent sloppy mix of half understood beliefs pilfered from other belief systems, that quickly collapses under even the slightest amount of scrutiny.

Could you please present a few examples to the contrary so I can really know what you are talking about?
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#16647 - 12/21/08 02:28 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I will but I'll go to PM.

D.

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#16707 - 12/22/08 05:03 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
lianna666diaboli Offline
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Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Washington, DC
I haven't posted here in a very, very long time. I have learned my lesson, and I am not saying this because I am afraid of debate. There is obviously nothing here denoting a collaborative respectful interchange. Obviously a another perspective is not welcome. Obvious no one here is serious or adept, respectful or accepting of what a forum is designed to encourage. By these replies, you divulge your own hearts and minds. You've already shown who and what you are-and are not.

It is noteworthy that Internet Satanism is filled such types, conflicted, condescending, critical of sincere expression. The only place where some can get some ego filling worth. Manipulation, criticism, disgust allows push-back and a never a sincere scrutiny of self.

"...There is intelligent theistic Satanism out there but it seems you didn't discover it yet..." How utterly self-confessing of a complete lack of what you espouse.

High School all over again.

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#16708 - 12/22/08 05:26 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
Ringmaster Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
Obviously a another perspective is not welcome.


Bullshit. It isn't a new perspective that isn't welcomed it is a new "persepective" without any validity that isn't welcomed. If you bring to the table factual information with valid points and intelligence that are able to back up those perspectives then good if not your problem and your own stupidity.

 Quote:
Obvious no one here is serious or adept, respectful or accepting of what a forum is designed to encourage.


Sounds like somebody needs a hug me it's ok forum and not one that takes pride in serious and intelligent debates. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen get the fuck out!

 Quote:
By these replies, you divulge your own hearts and minds. You've already shown who and what you are-and are not.


Serious or adept? Come the fuck on! Respect? What makes you think that respect is given out as a hand out? If you don't have respect it is all because of you, all because you don't deserve the respect given. If you think you aren't respected find out why and fucking change it, improve! Show that you are worthy of respect and a heads up, you aren't going to get it with this poor me pity me bullshit. What we are is a group of people who pride in knowledge and being able to display intelligence. What we are not is a group of people who respect and baby somebody who can't convey any form compotent reasoning skills and intelligence.

My advice to you (I'm giving you the respect you deserve right now by the way) is man the fuck up! Quit bitching and whining about how people don't show "respect" or encourage the stupid! Feel lucky that you are even shown acknowledgment as a being because with pointless shit like this you shouldn't deserve to even be breathing. Seriously grow the fuck up stop whining or go to hell! No pun intended. NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited by ringmaster (12/22/08 05:39 AM)
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#16713 - 12/22/08 08:13 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Look a devil worshiper with a sense of entitlement. How quaint.

Please jump off the nearest bridge, 'father satan' is calling.
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#16717 - 12/22/08 08:55 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I believe the word is "Suitheism" -
but I shudder to utter,
without breading the butter,
of one or another,
without consulting a brother,
of another mother,
who may know more or less,
and without making a mess,
I'll take my leave,
wiping my sleeve,
this, and only this I believe,
I must honestly, earnestly, MUST be taking my leave....


Edited by daevid777 (12/22/08 08:56 AM)
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#16719 - 12/22/08 09:02 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: daevid777]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Posts: 3888
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Suitheism, autotheism, Itheism, metheism, autodeification, the will to power, take your pick.

But since communicating it isn't necessary for it to function(unlike it's external counterpart), no name is really 'required'. Call it nothing at all. Just don't call me late for dinner!
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#16727 - 12/22/08 01:01 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You had your chance to prove us wrong but I fear your fragility proved us right. If you'd think of this as a test, you failed it.
Satanism can be a bitch.

D.

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#16730 - 12/22/08 01:16 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
High school indeed.

The fact that not everyone falls upon their knees at your personal belief is astounding to me. I was hoping you might expound on what you were talking about with at least some anecdotal evidence. You've spent "16 years" in achieving your personal sense of adeptship... surely you've got SOMETHING to show for it that might show me where my 35 years of experience is somehow deficient.

My bottom line...It works for me, I don't really care if others agree with it or not, because I've found that it works for ME. And along the way, it works for others as well, so I suppose that theistics would then show that "Satan" really doesn't NEED a cloying, sentimental and subservient commitment from those whose will to power drives them. Simple logic. If Bob and Tom can both make a pie, the fact that Bob is a Christian Fundamentalist is of no import.

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Do the words resonate in the person receiving them, and cause them to recognize that which is within them? That, then is their touchstone, and it doesn't matter if it's theistic or atheistic.

There is still room or intelligent people to debate and to explain. agree and disagree without necessarily being disagreeable. But you make the choice as to how to present your case. You can either engage in intelligent discourse, amplify and expound upon your ideas, or you can act like a petulent child, pick up your toys and take your "adept" ass home.
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#16752 - 12/22/08 09:37 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: lianna666diaboli]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
So that's the way that you approach Ritual...... that is a personal choice of yours, and it's totally your business, but you've popped up here extending your perspective on this thread, so here's mine;
I think conjouring up some entity, then spending the rest of your days externalising it and paying homage to it is totally demeaning to the Self, and totally dilutes any meaningful purpose that your life might have had if you had looked at yourself as your own "god and redeemer"
If you're happy, and your method works for you, thats nice.
The way I approach things works very admirably for me too - we are both raising up adrenal energy are we not? We both just have a VASTLY different outlook on how to get there.
All the best in your quest..... oh yeah, and if "Father Satan' does happen to make an appearance to you, say Hi to him from Spidey.
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#16762 - 12/23/08 12:38 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: spiderbreeder]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I believe it's possible to revere Satan as a supernatural or spiritual force, but once you start believing that he is just another God that wants to be worshiped with dogma, faith, convenants, pacts, prayers, and (un)holy books, then you've missed the mark entirely and end up becoming another typical religionist like those who follow the Abrahamic god.

I've said this numerous times before... if Satan exists, then surely he recognizes no spiritual superior. Therefore is it not better to emulate him in this respect rather than worship and prostrate before him?
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#17250 - 12/31/08 12:08 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Dan_Dread]
Chey Offline
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Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 12
Leviathan is water, Lucifer is Air, Satan is fire, and Belial is earth.
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#17255 - 12/31/08 12:28 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Chey]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Thanks for clarifying that Chey.

I don't want to rain on your parade or anything, but I'm sure the content of your post isn't anything new to the majority of people who use this forum.
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#77841 - 07/08/13 04:32 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
Azrael999 Offline
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Try the invocation and then read the SB. Enlightenment isn't meant for everybody and once you actually learn the secrets of the pacts of old, you might wish that you haven't. Samael-translation Venom of god, metaphore the poisonous apple, too much knowledge can lead you to insanity and being a social outcast...Back to the topic I take them literally the four crowned princes of hell..By the way in satanic the crown of thorns is a phrase that means they have horns...That's their crown..If you disagree OK.. Here Leviathan-Water-Necronomicon, Satan-Fire-Satanic Bible, One book leads to another"A warning is in the enochian dictionary about what it is and what motivates you heeding you not to fall into the traps.."The oldest trick in the book" Example simon necronomicon you ever wonder why its like ok the spell for some really powerfull magic then at the end of the spell its like Oh by the way don't do this unless your in this situation. Conjuration of the watcher..Id like to get an invitation because.Ive studied for years and I don't mean to offend..
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#77848 - 07/08/13 08:04 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Azrael999]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6789
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Here Leviathan-Water-Necronomicon, Satan-Fire-Satanic Bible, One book leads to another"A warning is in the enochian dictionary about what it is and what motivates you heeding you not to fall into the traps.."The oldest trick in the book" Example simon necronomicon you ever wonder why its like ok the spell for some really powerfull magic then at the end of the spell its like Oh by the way don't do this unless your in this situation. Conjuration of the watcher..Id like to get an invitation because.Ive studied for years and I don't mean to offend..


Can you elaborate on this and clearly? One needs no invitation to Hear the Call.

I understand the allure but if the 'Watcher' is doing nothing more than conjuring his own stupidity, you can't very well complain about the outcome, can you?


Edited by SIN3 (07/08/13 08:05 AM)
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#77911 - 07/10/13 08:31 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: SIN3]
Azrael999 Offline
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I'm sort of tired with the Simon. It was the only book that I was locked down with for a year though. I've read it forward. It's not a straight start to finish read. You have to learn to read between the lines. After a while it doesn't really say everything of protocol for the correct ritual procedure. It's a little scattered. I don't even know where it's at but you're supposed to summon the watcher and make the watcher sacrifices out in the woods or high on the mountaintops. You get drawn back to the spot where you performed the Conjuration of the watcher for some reason though. The invitation part, I meant the chat sites were you have to be invited by the 600. I didn't mean an invitation to the Call of Cthulu, Kutulu, um anyway. I've seen Kur, and other nameless gates, in my dreams, Necronomicon-not Dead but dreaming. They showed me the pillars that these beings were bound in stone along a coastline. Re written by the mad arab Abdullah Al-Hazred, and then rewritten by a nameless um helper in the Dark ages into Latin-Necronomicon Ex Mortis- with these beings bound in flesh, written in blood. It was a cursed book, The Bubonic plague. Which he did bury but someone decided to dig it up, and translate it into Greek, then retranslated into Assyrian, ancient Sumerian, and the binding spells were broken causing chaos, and the sky bled red.They would make a stripe in blood on the doorways to let the know which house to burn, in Kitzengen, Germany, near the leaning tower, they called him Dracula, which in Romanian means bloodsucker, which is also back then like calling someone a F-got. Back to the vision. Pillars covered with ocean um moss looking. And they gave me a book and I got to the part of the mysterious teacher that came from the sea-explaination-the letters were different than English. But since I'm only fluent in English I guess they tried to explain it the best they can. From what I can remember the letters looked like English based but different like The U and I were in the same space. If you have these dreams read everything you can but since you don't really remember reality when your in your altered state its hard to remember. But the name that I got was Mualana, the teacher that taught them their technology and the whatnot. Insanity or does any of this make sense. Ok, crazy bullshit, good story or use your own insight. I've been giving myself a cool down from the readings because I don't want to know everything some things are better left as it is. But there are also other Necronomicons' that will help. If you are into it. The Translation of the Al-Azif by John Dee, the St.Peter, er I mean Simon Necronomicon, the only thing is that the translation Al-Azif isn't the correct translation, because the copy of the Al-Azif(in Aramaic means the howling of demons) because the copy that I had was all in Aramaic, no squigglies. Anyway the translation of the Al-Azif by Dr John Dee does fill in the blanks on the Simon. and the Al-Azif has the Call of Cthulu in it. I don't want noobs getting into this sht, that's why I asked for an Invitation. Hey did you know there are Islamic Satanists now. I don't know you would have to ask Ibliss. I decrypt occult books like people do their morning cross word puzzles. Real Rep. I would like a translation of the Al-Azif by Abdullah Al-Hazred if you know any Islamists. Hey since I'm bored and if your bored check this out try reading psalms bottom to top, right to left =it takes a while but you'll get used to it it's f crazy. Right the 4 crowned princes of so kay um maybe latter I don't want him poppin out in a supermarket or something...


Please use proper sentence structure and paragraph breaks so people can attempt to understand the convoluted stuff you are saying.... Morgan


Edited by Morgan (07/11/13 09:57 PM)
Edit Reason: warning/information
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#77915 - 07/10/13 10:25 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Azrael999]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6789
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Azrael999
I'm sort of tired with the Simon. It was the only book that I was locked down with for a year though. I've read it forward. It's not a straight start to finish read. You have to learn to read between the lines.


Simon is a character, he's essentially created his own Urban myth and personna, its a meme. Ever Read his book 'Dead Names'?? If you're reading between the lines, you'll want to read that.

I have an old Hardcover of his Nec, it's never appealed to me. I just consider it a prop. The 'Gate-walker' business is metaphorical but people will take it literally. I see a ton of Occultniks trying to conjure up dimensional beings or looking for the right formula for that magic carpet ride. Most are just chasing the Dragon.


 Quote:


After a while it doesn't really say everything of protocol for the correct ritual procedure. It's a little scattered. I don't even know where it's at but you're supposed to summon the watcher and make the watcher sacrifices out in the woods or high on the mountaintops. You get drawn back to the spot where you performed the Conjuration of the watcher for some reason though.


This is what I mean, proper protocols for what? What do you think the Nec will conjure for you if you had the 'proper' protocols?



 Quote:

The invitation part, I meant the chat sites were you have to be invited by the 600. I didn't mean an invitation to the Call of Cthulu, Kutulu, um anyway.


Culty joke, I guess you missed it. No worries.


 Quote:
I've seen Kur, and other nameless gates, in my dreams, Necronomicon-not Dead but dreaming. They showed me the pillars that these beings were bound in stone along a coastline. Re written by the mad arab Abdullah Al-Hazred, and then rewritten by a nameless um helper in the Dark ages into Latin-Necronomicon Ex Mortis- with these beings bound in flesh, written in blood. It was a cursed book, The Bubonic plague. Which he did bury but someone decided to dig it up, and translate it into Greek, then retranslated into Assyrian, ancient Sumerian, and the binding spells were broken causing chaos, and the sky bled red.They would make a stripe in blood on the doorways to let the know which house to burn, in Kitzengen, Germany, near the leaning tower, they called him Dracula, which in Romanian means bloodsucker, which is also back then like calling someone a F-got.



'Dream-Walking' is another element to the debacle. Has it occurred to you that you are spending a great deal of time planting this imagery in your head and it just so happens to appear in your dreams?


 Quote:
Back to the vision. Pillars covered with ocean um moss looking. And they gave me a book and I got to the part of the mysterious teacher that came from the sea-explaination-the letters were different than English. But since I'm only fluent in English I guess they tried to explain it the best they can. From what I can remember the letters looked like English based but different like The U and I were in the same space. If you have these dreams read everything you can but since you don't really remember reality when your in your altered state its hard to remember. But the name that I got was Mualana, the teacher that taught them their technology and the whatnot. Insanity or does any of this make sense.


What you call a vision, may just be inner knowledge. What do you think it means?

For me, I always say that 'all' Necronomicons are legit, provided you are the Magi impelled to write it, and put forth your efforts. Picking up a Simon, Tyson, or any other pre-fabricated work and expecting it to change your life is the very thing most Left-hand-Pathers spit venom at.

 Quote:

Ok, crazy bullshit, good story or use your own insight. I've been giving myself a cool down from the readings because I don't want to know everything some things are better left as it is.

But there are also other Necronomicons' that will help. If you are into it. The Translation of the Al-Azif by John Dee, the St.Peter, er I mean Simon Necronomicon, the only thing is that the translation Al-Azif isn't the correct translation, because the copy of the Al-Azif(in Aramaic means the howling of demons) because the copy that I had was all in Aramaic, no squigglies. Anyway the translation of the Al-Azif by Dr John Dee does fill in the blanks on the Simon. and the Al-Azif has the Call of Cthulu in it.


I'd say that colorful stories can be used to communicate your own insight but it doesn't mean that one is wise or holds knowledge.



 Quote:
I don't want noobs getting into this sht, that's why I asked for an Invitation.


Invitation to the site?

 Quote:

Hey did you know there are Islamic Satanists now. I don't know you would have to ask Ibliss. I decrypt occult books like people do their morning cross word puzzles. Real Rep. I would like a translation of the Al-Azif by Abdullah Al-Hazred if you know any Islamists.




Not exactly new, Satanist rise in every culture though what they believe and practice is up for scrutiny as Satanism.

Since you are so bored and all, perhaps you might learn Arabic to translate these texts, though I'm not certain what that sort of thing does for you other than to fill the gap of boredom.

What are you looking for? A magic recipe to autonomy?


Edited by SIN3 (07/10/13 10:26 AM)
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#77944 - 07/11/13 10:20 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: SIN3]
Azrael999 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 66
I don't mean this to sound cross. But no Im not looking for a recipie for my own personality style. I don't really have one that isn't the result of PTSD symptoms so I usually don't feel very good about myself, guess I shouldn't have studied all those Psychology books Venom of God huh? EELeEEVeEED you can't even get it anymore so it doesn't really matter me saying this but I was a master with the Wolf,Burke, so I do know some things. But now I'm trying a new route not by angles but curved dimensions. And dreams I believe it's a couple of different things. It could just be your subconscious being active remenissing on things that researchers have no idea how to interpret. It, I believe that the other side can communicate with us through, maybe it's a way to talk to the dead. Or your mind trying to explain to you in metaphorical imagery things that the other side of your brain can't explain. Who knows, Me reading back on the post I kind of forgot to differentiate between what I know for fact, my beliefs and just something that I was wondering about. I don't do um oouaaach um excuse me spells to have a mellien dalars er rool de werld mua ha ha with. But I know why you said that, can't stand that sht. If you want to be a great musician or something go to school for it, some moral foundation would be nice too. I was planning on writing a new SB depending if the CoS approves it or not. I hold myself upright with the Egyptian texts more than any though. Um did you know in one of them there is like a point system for Salam Malakim, props for that one anyway. I just think it's kinda funny. Like if someone spits in your general direction to donkey punch em in the middle of the street 5 points, yeah. Whatever I forgot what I was talking about, Ecaep.

Edited by Azrael999 (07/11/13 10:25 PM)
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#77953 - 07/11/13 11:29 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Azrael999]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6789
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
I was planning on writing a new SB depending if the CoS approves it or not.


Whut?

Perhaps you might elaborate on what you believe this sort of thing will do, or prove, and to whom?

As for the rest, it appears that you are using PTSD in varying degrees across posts to excuse some sort of shortcoming. What does that have to do with acquisition of personal power? Do you believe its an obstacle you can't overcome? Have you just surrendered yourself to it and that's that?
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#77957 - 07/12/13 12:23 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: satanicfly87]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: satanicfly87
I was reading through the Satanic Bible and I came across the 4 Crowned Princes of Hell. In my opinion, TSB does not do a great job describing exactly what they are and information on the internet about it is scarce.

I just noticed this old thread. As is footnoted in my Church of Satan history, Anton took the 4CPs from that pre-Crowley classic The Sacred Magic of Abra=Melin the Mage. You'll find them at the beginning of Chapter 19.

Looks like in this thread there has been a bit of an effort to make a big deal out of them. The truth is that Anton just wanted to divide the SB into 4 parts, and this struck him as as good a device as any, that's all.

Later on he commented to me that he screwed it up a bit, because Satan and Lucifer were often, if not always the same individual, Belial was a corruption of Baal, and Leviathan was a sea monster, not a dćmon per se. But Hebrew mythology is such a rag-bag of borrowed & corrupted "others" that it didn't make much difference.

Leviathan's only other value was that since Satan's name in Hebrew didn't fit the Baphomet, Leviathan's came in handy. No one ever explained why L's name appeared on the "Satanic" Baphomet, and we didn't bother to ask either. ;\)

Somewhere else in 600C we discussed the "mysterioso" of the Baph: that it wouldn't have had the same zing with just S A T A N around it. I tried a version with some fancy script that wasn't too bad:



But I think it came out better when I tried S A T A N in Marabic, which is the alphabet created for the Indiana Jones Adventure in Disneyland:

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#77963 - 07/12/13 03:46 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: SIN3]
Azrael999 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 66
Have I, yeah maybe I should reread my own posts more but I don't know why I put it out there. I'm kind of bad at taking criticism but it's needed. I've been having trouble in my own life because of this, and all that psychological studies that I've done to better myself only made it worse. My episodes of lashing out have gotten worse, I'll stop bringing it up... No I'm not out to prove something either. But thanx for pointing it out. \:\(
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#77968 - 07/12/13 07:19 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Azrael999]
Azrael999 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 66
Just an example of some thing I was going to write in it was Our Father
Who Rule In Hell, Unhallo Be Thy Name
Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done,
On Earth As It Is In Hell,
Give Us This Day Our Just Rewards,
And Punish Our Trespassers,
As We Punish Those Who Trespass Against Us,
And Lead Us Unto Temptation,
And Deliver Us To Evil,

For The Kingdom, The Power, And Glory Is
Mine, Now And Forever.

Yeah read it out loud. Now don't you feel better?
----ACS-----
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#81568 - 10/26/13 04:18 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Azrael999]
seeker1 Offline
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Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 16
I would like to offer my symbolic interpretation of the 4CPH.

Satan: Passion for life. Strength. Motivation. Vitality

Lucifer: Righteousness. individuality. wisdom/enlightenment. "I don't want to take any bullshit"

Belial: a master of lessor magic and manipulation. Earthly.

Leviathan: the subconscious. the serpent in the abyss. primal reptilian force. I compare it to the "holy spirit" of the catholic trinity.



Edited by seeker1 (10/26/13 04:19 AM)

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#81569 - 10/26/13 04:21 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: seeker1]
seeker1 Offline
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Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 16
a lot of their traits overlap. I merely stripped them down for comparison
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#81579 - 10/26/13 10:42 AM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: seeker1]
Zerophopia Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 80
 Originally Posted By: seeker1
a lot of their traits overlap. I merely stripped them down for comparison


I see. Everything you like in one box, everything you don't in the other. Quite convenient.

JK
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#81580 - 10/26/13 12:55 PM Re: 4 Crowned Princes of Hell [Re: Zerophopia]
JTF Offline
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Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 110
Loc: United Kingdom of Great Britai...
Ha ha brilliant. The best things about this forum knowledge and humour.
Can't beat it :-)
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