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#19561 - 02/02/09 09:36 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public? [Re: Fist]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... I dunno... I did have a youngun tell me he wanted to take me outside once, until I took off the rank and went for the door, and told my clerk to mark him as "in confinement" for the next 30 days once we got back.
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#19868 - 02/07/09 11:15 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: dark_wind]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
I am an open Satanist, and I love it, but not everyone has the luxury of being an open Satanist. A lot of it is dependent on whether or not being an open Satanist jeopardizes your income or not. I'm coming out of the life of a poor struggling artist, so it doesn't really effect me much. I have met Satanist that were in med school, and there is no way a doctor can be an open Satanist. As for the really young people, the question of being an open Satanist doesn't really apply because they don't have to make a living for themselves.

Being an open Satanist has its pros and cons. The pros are pretty obvious....you will get tremendous amounts of attention and some women will just throw their pussies at you. The downside to being an open Satanist is that you can't navigate through society as good as an undercover Satanist. The undercover Satanist has great advantage with manipulating people and rising to power. I have always admired the under cover Satanist's ability to exert tremendous self-control and patience. Both the overt and covert Satanist are important to Satanism's future as a religion, neither one is more Satanic than the other.

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#19870 - 02/07/09 11:22 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
As for the really young people, the question of being an open Satanist doesn't really apply because they don't have to make a living for themselves.

True what you said here, however not agreeing fully.
An open Satanist during "youth" (just take 15-20) can make a difference. Not very much on your possible future, but more an influence on the people surrounding you. I guess I don't have to make a little drawing when I say most people under the category of that age aren't very informed or have enough experience by dealing with it as an adult. At those ages it's much easier to tease, ignore and beat the odd ones.
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#19942 - 02/08/09 08:48 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
You know, I forgot to add another con of being an open Satanist. I firmly believe that you will have a tougher time with your love life as an open Satanist, as opposed to a covert one. Clearly, women are going to jump to all types of conclusions about what you're about and what you're not about. Most women wont even bother to get to know who you really are, but that is just the price you will pay. However, for me, this lonely road is worth it, because I'm a fan of history. I would like to do something great for the future advancement of Satanism before I die. This might not make sense to the covert Satanist, but for me, how I am immortalized after death is my greatest indulgence. One might think that I'm not going to be around to experience my post-death image anyway, but there can be a brief moment in one's life when they know they have accomplished something that has secured their name in the future pages of history. After all, if LaVey decided to be a covert Satanist all of his life, none of you would be here.
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#19944 - 02/08/09 09:18 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Gratikus
I would like to do something great for the future advancement of Satanism before I die. This might not make sense to the covert Satanist, but for me, how I am immortalized after death is my greatest indulgence.


Nor are you by any means alone in that indulgence, which falls squarely under the heading of vanity, an attribute I admire, though only to the extent that it is free of pretension, self-deceit, and herd conformity.

My curiosity being piqued, I have two questions:

1. Do you proselytize on behalf of Satanism?

2. Do you do other activities that might cause you to be immortalized, and if so, what would those be?

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#19951 - 02/08/09 10:02 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Zoid]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
>>1. Do you proselytize on behalf of Satanism?<<

No. I'm just open about Satanism and then I take it from there. One is either a Satanist, or they are or not. I don't really try to “convert” anyone, if that is what you mean. Unlike most other religions, Satanism is sort of auto-proselytizing. Put Satanism out there, and the right people will be attracted to it, no screaming necessary.

>>2. Do you do other activities that might cause you to be immortalized, and if so, what would those be? <<

I'm going to start a Satanic group here in Jersey, called “The Power of Satan,” who's focus is all about older Satanist mentoring younger Satanist. My ultimate dream is to one day attain enough money to build an above ground Satanic church, that is for both overt and covert modern Satanist.

But none of this would really make me unique, as it has all be kind of done before.

I truly believe that what makes people historical are mostly events that are beyond their control. If you look at most great historical figures, you will see that they became great out of chance. Sure, they had the courage to do whatever it was that they did that made them historical, but some random event/challenge gave them the CHANCE to be historical. I believe my random test will come one day, when I least expect it.

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#19952 - 02/08/09 10:22 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
I'm going to start a Satanic group here in Jersey, called “The Power of Satan,” who's focus is all about older Satanist mentoring younger Satanist.

That's odd, I always tought the satanic philosophy/ LHP was a lonely path. In other words: doing things yourself and not being handfed.

 Quote:
My ultimate dream is to one day attain enough money to build an above ground Satanic church, that is for both overt and covert modern Satanist.

Nice dream however, by doing so you must also face the consequences. When you are "head" of your church some people will automatically commit misdoings in your name. Even tough they aren't member, nor had they any contact with the church in it's whole. When you die, and your church lives on: your dream might be smashed to pieces when one of your "chosen leaders" fucks things up. Also be prepared to be insulted for things you didn't do when this dream has been achieved.

Never forget: you have the possibility to be an "open satanist" in your surroundings, but the earth is much bigger. And there are many, many nutjobs...

 Quote:
I believe my random test will come one day, when I least expect it.

Some call it faith...

You see, anyone has the power to be famous/renowend/admired for actions or things he/she did. The only thing you need to do is make it happen or to really be an "outstanding individual". Most people who are great in history didn't become great by chance.
They worked for it and paid many prizes and failures within their lives. A good example: Einstein--> he didn't became great by chance. He worked and studied hard to become one of the most brilliant minds in history. If he had quit all when his former teacher said he wouldn't achieve a thing since he was a failure in mathematiques and then look what he became.
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#19955 - 02/08/09 01:18 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
I'm going to start a Satanic group here in Jersey, called “The Power of Satan,” who's focus is all about older Satanist mentoring younger Satanist.

That's odd, I always tought the satanic philosophy/ LHP was a lonely path. In other words: doing things yourself and not being handfed.

 Quote:
My ultimate dream is to one day attain enough money to build an above ground Satanic church, that is for both overt and covert modern Satanist.

Nice dream however, by doing so you must also face the consequences. When you are "head" of your church some people will automatically commit misdoings in your name. Even tough they aren't member, nor had they any contact with the church in it's whole. When you die, and your church lives on: your dream might be smashed to pieces when one of your "chosen leaders" fucks things up. Also be prepared to be insulted for things you didn't do when this dream has been achieved.

Never forget: you have the possibility to be an "open satanist" in your surroundings, but the earth is much bigger. And there are many, many nutjobs...

 Quote:
I believe my random test will come one day, when I least expect it.

Some call it faith...

You see, anyone has the power to be famous/renowend/admired for actions or things he/she did. The only thing you need to do is make it happen or to really be an "outstanding individual". Most people who are great in history didn't become great by chance.
They worked for it and paid many prizes and failures within their lives. A good example: Einstein--> he didn't became great by chance. He worked and studied hard to become one of the most brilliant minds in history. If he had quit all when his former teacher said he wouldn't achieve a thing since he was a failure in mathematiques and then look what he became.


>>That's odd, I always tought the satanic philosophy/ LHP was a lonely path. In other words: doing things yourself and not being handfed. <<

Hand feeding and mentoring are two totally different things. If you have or had a son, would you mentor him or would you simply give him everything (hand feeding?) There's a HUGE difference. Sometimes Satanist get a little carried away with this whole "go alone" thing that they forget that they are human, and human nature is social by default. We must socialize because it's in our evolution to do so, no Satanist is an island. While hand feeding and using something as a crutch are not-Satanic, they should not be confused with healthy socialization.

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#19956 - 02/08/09 01:24 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Handfeeding and mentoring can be the same.
Imagine: you want to "mentor" people about the satanic knowledge.
You, to make things easy, start to mentor these people with lessons YOU have learnt. These pupils will only get YOUR side of the facts and some will only live by those, whatever you try to say. You are literally handfeeding them with your knowledge instead of saying "these books contain guidelines, now go and learn from the outside world".

The only thing social about Satanism to me is sharing different experiences or discuss different topics related to Satanism.
Satanism is a philosophy to live by, and it's not to be learnt from others even if you are linked towards one church or another.
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#19958 - 02/08/09 01:27 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
I think you are a bit confused by my position, and what Satanic mentoring really is. Let me give you an example:


When someone is new to Satanism what is one of the first thing that they tend to do? They go to a message board and seek answers and guidance from more experienced Satanist. This is natural, and it’s something that I doubt the majority of people here didn’t do at one time or another. Whether you asked questions directly, or you simply read other beginner Q&A conversations, you were being mentored by a more experienced Satanist, either directly or indirectly. Satanic mentoring does not equate with being hand fed in the least bit. In fact, Satanic mentoring espouses self reliance and independence. I know very few Satanist who want to raise young Satanist to be on their tit for the rest of their life. I know I don't.


Edited by Gratikus (02/08/09 01:28 PM)

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#19959 - 02/08/09 01:32 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Gratikus; choose your words a bit wisely.
At first you were using the word "mentoring".
The description in your last post is just mere "guiding".
Hell of a difference between those 2.

If you meant you wanted to "guide" people I've said nothing.

And actually, not all Satanists start at an "online board".
I started to get aware of it after I read a wide variety of books of human psyche, science and social behaviour. And only after reading a bit about the SB and Laveye my curiosity started and came to the conclusion I already was living my life like a Satanist. Ofcourse, with here and there some differences about religion but things change. And I doubt Jake ever started on an online board...


Edited by Dimitri (02/08/09 01:38 PM)
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#19960 - 02/08/09 01:34 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Gratikus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
LoL another upstart talking about a 'satanic movement'. Why do I see a myspace 'church' in your future? (to add to the mountain of existing intarweb satanic 'organizations' a word which I use in only the loosest sense)

Seriously though, you can't advance Satanism. It is what it is, a tool for those with the intestinal fortitude and intellectual capacity to use it. No more, no less.


Edited by Dan_Dread (02/08/09 01:54 PM)
Edit Reason: wording
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#19963 - 02/08/09 02:06 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
And I doubt Jake ever started on an online board...


Actually I AM starting an online board, although I'm not using it to teach anybody about Satanism, although there is a section for "left hand path" discussions, as well as one for "right hand path" discussions and others as well... it's main purpose is as an adjunct to a music function that will be on the site.

I do see where you're coming from though... and I see where Gratika's coming from as well. There's nothing wrong in wanting to build an edifice to Satanism. There's nothing in any of LaVey's writings that would even indicate that that would be wrong, if it is what one chooses to do.

As for mentoring on line... YOU do it, I do it, we all do it, either positively or negatively when we voice our opinions publicly. We can claim that we have no intent, we can claim that we aren't, but the truth is, that those of us who have something to say and can say it in a way that others who read might be influenced by our words ARE indeed serving as mentors in a defacto sense. There are those who respect what we have to say and are influenced in their decision processes.

It that's wrong to you, then you have only one option. Say nothing. You can't give an opinion that you believe in without expecting someone to at least take it into consideration.


Edited by Jake999 (02/08/09 02:14 PM)
Edit Reason: Expanded thought
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#19964 - 02/08/09 02:12 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Jake999]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
Actually I AM starting an online board, although I'm not using it to teach anybody about Satanism, although there is a section for "left hand path" discussions, as well as one for "right hand path" discussions and others as well... it's main purpose is as an adjunct to a music function that will be on the site.

Actually I ment that you didn't start to indulge at Satanism by looking at an online board/forum.
Which actually brought up a question to my mind for you.

Jake, I know you were one of the persons who has seen the foundation of the CoS and that you have known LaVeye. But how did you get in contact with him and how did you "start with Satanism"?

 Quote:
As for mentoring on line... YOU do it, I do it, we all do it, either positively or negatively when we voice our opinions publicly.

Actually, I knew this already, but I don't like to call it mentoring. I prefer the word "guiding". Mentoring to me is more like: "These are the facts, this are the proofs, learn it well and keep it in mind". While uphere I only give my opinion which isn't always build on foundations.


Edited by Dimitri (02/08/09 02:22 PM)
Edit Reason: Added info
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#19966 - 02/08/09 02:18 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dan_Dread]
Gratikus Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
LoL another upstart talking about a 'satanic movement'. Why do I see a myspace 'church' in your future? (to add to the mountain of existing intarweb satanic 'organizations' a word which I use in only the loosest sense)

Seriously though, you can't advance Satanism. It is what it is, a tool for those with the intestinal fortitude and intellectual capacity to use it. No more, no less.


It's an off line group that I'm going to start, and it's purpose is to not re-invent Satanism, but rather to offer a face to face style of interaction between Satanist. Something that, imo, is much needed because far too many Satanist play the big tough guy on the internet but are something totally different face to face.


Edited by Gratikus (02/08/09 02:22 PM)

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