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#43639 - 10/16/10 04:04 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: deathreaperuk]
mountaingoat Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
Publicly declaring myself as anything, especially a Satanist, opens me up to answering questions and being by default on the defense. Knowing that a person can't become a Satanist, rather he is born that way, leads me to be of the mind that publicly flaunting an identity that can't be understood by the vast majority of my observers will do nothing but rob me of my time and energy. Answering inane questions posed by people who would never accept a rational answer; acting as a sort of evangelist; defending myself against people who I have never personally wronged... These are all very distasteful options to me. In every situation I will walk away angry and frustrated while the other party will feel righteous and vindicated in his beliefs. In other words, he will receive far more from myself than I will from he in this interaction. And as a far more Satanic point, do I really want to share what I know with a dumb and unworthy subject? Satanism is a rare gift bred into a select few of us. To try to share this blessing with unworthy automatons is at best a frustrating waste of time, and at worst a sign that I may not truly be worthy of the gift received.

I often silently sit back and laugh to myself when I would love to expose fools as the idiots and liars that they are when questions of "spirituality" arise. This happens, not surprisingly, most often when "pagans" are the offending party. I would love to attack and assail everything that they claim to hold sacred and reduce them to the pathetic fools that they really are. Sadly, this would only strengthen their beliefs and confirm their ideas about the horrible hordes of Satanists waiting to commit unspeakable atrocities in their own backyards. I would respond the same to their "rational" arguments against Satanism. Most people hear what they want to hear.

The most important Satanic belief in publicly declaring your Satanism is the law of self preservation. being ridiculed, ostracized, tormented or discriminated against are very real and undesirable consequences. What many do not consider is the immense drain on your vital life energy defending your belief in a debate that can never be won by either side. We serve to gain nothing by assuming the role that was long ago written out by the other side.
_________________________
“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

-John Fowles

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#43642 - 10/16/10 01:03 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: mountaingoat]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Knowing that a person can't become a Satanist, rather he is born that way, leads me to be of the mind that publicly flaunting an identity that can't be understood by the vast majority of my observers will do nothing but rob me of my time and energy.

And you really DO belief you are born a Satanist? What makes you different then the Christian who also simply beliefs? What makes you different then the Pagan who truly beliefs what he or she preaches? What makes you different then the Muslim, Buddhist,.. who also truly belief?
You just think and belief you are born a Satanist, I do not think you are. In fact I say you aren't. And others also can make the opinion..
It's the trap most self-proclaimed Satanists tend to step in. They simply "belief" they are and fit the definition of LaVey.
 Quote:
Answering inane questions posed by people who would never accept a rational answer; acting as a sort of evangelist; defending myself against people who I have never personally wronged... These are all very distasteful options to me.

What is a rational answer by your means? Something you think is right and fits your worldview?

 Quote:
I often silently sit back and laugh to myself when I would love to expose fools as the idiots and liars that they are when questions of "spirituality" arise. This happens, not surprisingly, most often when "pagans" are the offending party. I would love to attack and assail everything that they claim to hold sacred and reduce them to the pathetic fools that they really are.

Instead of smirking behind the computerscreen I dare you to enter a discussion about spirituality in any place you visit and where one is being held. You can claim to know its bullshit, which it probably is, but do you really have what you think is within your capabilities? From the previous paragraph I highly doubt you can hold a civilized debate about creationism.

 Quote:
being ridiculed, ostracized, tormented or discriminated against are very real and undesirable consequences. What many do not consider is the immense drain on your vital life energy defending your belief in a debate that can never be won by either side.

If you feel insecure about being a Satanist in the open and are being harrased for claiming so, then I suspect it has more to do with your persona then the actual belief. I, for one, am open about it. I have never met a single person who would try to convert or kill me for claiming this label. Why? Because I have a cheerfull persona. I am a sarcast, cynic, joyfull person who also sometimes acts as a total asshole. Everyone around me, even strangers would notice that soon enough. If people accept a persona/caracter they will be more inclined to accept the beliefs being carried.

Besides, I'm open about it to the extend if they have asked the right question.
_________________________
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#43645 - 10/16/10 08:55 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: New York
I also believe that one is born a Satanist, and cannot convert to or learn to be one. This has been discussed many times and there really is no need to go into it yet again. Anyone is free to believe anything they want.

 Quote:
And you really DO belief you are born a Satanist? What makes you different then the Christian who also simply beliefs? What makes you different then the Pagan who truly beliefs what he or she preaches?


For me the difference between believing that I was born a Satanist, and the belief system of all others whom you mention is that MY belief relates to myself. Over several decades I have come to understand myself very well. The others are claiming to know things such as spirits and gods on an intimate level, but can never even prove their existence. I at least can prove that I exist, and only claim to know MYSELF quite well. But even in my mid forties there are times when I learn something knew about me, therefore anyone who claims that they know some spirit world well enough to be able to speak for that spirit world, I find most unsavory.

 Quote:
They simply "belief" they are and fit the definition of LaVey.


I would argue that LaVey’s description fit me, not the other way around. That is the difference between being born a Satanist as opposed to trying to be one.

 Quote:

What is a rational answer by your means? Something you think is right and fits your worldview?


Works for me.

 Quote:
Instead of smirking behind the computerscreen I dare you to enter a discussion about spirituality in any place you visit and where one is being held. You can claim to know its bullshit, which it probably is, but do you really have what you think is within your capabilities? From the previous paragraph I highly doubt you can hold a civilized debate about creationism.


I disagree completely. From what I see, the Original Poster would be totally capable of coherently expressing his views, but he simply doesn’t feel the desire or need to do so. He has enough confidence in his views that he probably will not fall into the trap of being pulled into verbal drama that is disguised as a debate, when all it is is someone’s desire to have him sit there and listen to them spew their shit at him, without any honest desire to LISTEN to his points of view.

 Quote:
If you feel insecure about being a Satanist in the open and are being harrased for claiming so, then I suspect it has more to do with your persona then the actual belief


I’ve discussed Satanism with many people who are Theists. They know my charming, fun, and sarcastic personality; and no, they did not ostracize me, come to hate me, or fear me. BUT the discussions, never achieve ANYTHING at all.

Some of us do not care to convince anyone. We simply don’t give a shit about their theistic views, or their opinions about Satanism. Any discussions that I may have about Satanism is for pure entertainment value. There are very few people who claim to be Satanists that I find to have anything of importance to contribute, so not only don’t I care about the opinions of Theists, but I’m at the point where I don’t give two shits about the opinions of 99 percent of the Satanists out there either, because a very large percentage of them do not fit my “world view” of what a Satanist is. Chances are that I don’t fit their definition of a Satanist either. I couldn’t care less.
As far as I am concerned, I am content with the BELIEF that I can often recognize the black flame within someone in a short period of time, either online or in the real world. On a few occasions I’ve been wrong, but a high percentage of the time I am right on. According to my world view anyway, and that’s good enough for me.

(This response on my part fits into the “entertainment,” category earlier mentioned)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#43651 - 10/17/10 12:25 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
And you really DO belief you are born a Satanist? What makes you different then the Christian who also simply beliefs? What makes you different then the Pagan who truly beliefs what he or she preaches? What makes you different then the Muslim, Buddhist,.. who also truly belief?

Yes I believe a Satanist is born you either have the black spark or you don’t. This is why many can be said to have Satanic tendencies but never claim the title. The difference Dimitri is I don’t feel any need to prove my beliefs or ways to you or anyone really. We have nothing to prove and need little acceptance unlike those others you mention.

What is it that you are trying to prove yet again? Was it you are the big bad cool Satanist and he is not?

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You just think and belief you are born a Satanist, I do not think you are. In fact I say you aren't. And others also can make the opinion..

Who gives a fuck what you think or believe Dimitri? Are you the Grand Exalted Pu-Ba of Satanists worldwide? Cause if you are I didn’t get the memo and I have a complaint. I never received the cookies I was promised.

I think MG has the spark. His post was well thought out and honestly much better than anything you have said in the last year or three.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
It's the trap most self-proclaimed Satanists tend to step in. They simply "belief" they are and fit the definition of LaVey.

Oh excuse me I didn’t know you were a specialist on Satanism or other peoples lives. Funny shit man…

 Quote:
Answering inane questions posed by people who would never accept a rational answer; acting as a sort of evangelist; defending myself against people who I have never personally wronged... These are all very distasteful options to me.
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
What is a rational answer by your means? Something you think is right and fits your worldview?

I wouldn’t expect much of an answer if you understood what you read you would understand answering your questions are no less distasteful than those he speaks about. Wow you’re not really much different that a non-Satanist yourself. Hmmmm

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Instead of smirking behind the computerscreen I dare you to enter a discussion about spirituality in any place you visit and where one is being held.

Maybe if you double dog dare him… I don't know Dimitri you come off as the child here. In hearing he doesn't like canned beans you dare him to eat some.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
If you feel insecure about being a Satanist in the open and are being harrased for claiming so, then I suspect it has more to do with your persona then the actual belief.

I see nothing in mountiangoat’s post that makes me think he is weak or insecure in his beliefs. He appears much stronger than you actually. Is there a reason you try to force your belief on everyone Dimitri?

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I, for one, am open about it. I have never met a single person who would try to convert or kill me for claiming this label. Why? Because I have a cheerfull persona. I am a sarcast, cynic, joyfull person who also sometimes acts as a total asshole. Everyone around me, even strangers would notice that soon enough. If people accept a persona/caracter they will be more inclined to accept the beliefs being carried.

Dimitri you show us much with these little tantrums of yours. There is a long way to go down this path, maybe you can get out of this rut of yours and begin to grow again.

Good luck on your path

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#43654 - 10/17/10 05:11 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: ta2zz]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
Looks like I touched a sensitive nerve with some here.

 Quote:
Yes I believe a Satanist is born you either have the black spark or you don’t. This is why many can be said to have Satanic tendencies but never claim the title. The difference Dimitri is I don’t feel any need to prove my beliefs or ways to you or anyone really. We have nothing to prove and need little acceptance unlike those others you mention.

And what does this add towards the case of "simply believing"?
Neither do I feel the need to defend and prove my beliefs. I can try to if I wanted by referring events in the past before I started to indulge in the Satanic philosophy or even heard of it. But this wouldn't be very productive and easily (and perhaps wrongly?) dismissed of pulling stories out of my ass.
The only point I was trying to make is that you simply belief. Nothing bad with it really, just that some people get pretty caught up in make-belief stories (both by their own and external sources) and thus have the possibility of corrupting their own mind. Being something they in fact aren't.

And to mention Asmedious, he is right about believing in himself being born a Satanist. Just as the Christians believe they are born Christian. I'm born human, my caracter has been developed later on when I became more aware of my surroundings and how I saw the world. And its only later on in my life I showed Satanic virtues without even being aware what Satanism was and how it was defined by LaVey. It only has been in the last 7-9 years or such I became aware of LaVey and his works in which I could identify with naturally.

I see it as something stupid to claim. "I'm born Christian, I'm born Muslim, I'm born a Satanist". No you are not. You grew up in a place which enabled you to claim and say you are born [fill in religion] with the necessary virtues pointed out to loosely state your claim. Being a hypocrit myself I also make the claim of being born a Satanist. But in reality I mean "grew up in a situation/place wherein my developing caracter came to be Satanic in nature". Thats quite a significant difference.
 Quote:
Who gives a fuck what you think or believe Dimitri? Are you the Grand Exalted Pu-Ba of Satanists worldwide? Cause if you are I didn’t get the memo and I have a complaint. I never received the cookies I was promised.

I only send Belgian beers to my loyal servants, cookies is something Blackwood would have send (if he didn't ate all the cookiedough). ;\)

 Quote:
Oh excuse me I didn’t know you were a specialist on Satanism or other peoples lives. Funny shit man…

You're welcome.

 Quote:
I see nothing in mountiangoat’s post that makes me think he is weak or insecure in his beliefs. He appears much stronger than you actually. Is there a reason you try to force your belief on everyone Dimitri?

What I see in his post is the same I have seen in many others' posts on other forums when discussing wide varieties of subjects. I have discussed creationism and paranormal events many times and heard that very same claim MG made (from both skeptic as Creationist side) over and over again. When it boiled down to it, they only imagined they had the ability. It never took me (or others) that long to shred their bubble apart and lower them to the level of name-calling. There were exceptions, but these are VERY rare. I would be surprised if MG is one of these exceptions.


Edited by Dimitri (10/17/10 06:02 AM)
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#43656 - 10/17/10 12:49 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Doomsayer3079 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 7
Loc: idaho
In my expirience it has been that it is in deed the weak ones who get the most puffed-up about their"not sure what iam talking about" beliefs. If you are actully educated on what you claim to be your beliefs, then you (I) dont get offened by the weak, and I have no reason to explain myself to small minded people who wouldnt "get it" anyways.Hey Dimitri, you should educate yourself before you try to argue the point, you would find that you will feel like a dumb-ass.
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#43659 - 10/17/10 02:21 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Doomsayer3079]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Originally Posted By: Doomsayer3079
In my expirience it has been that it is in deed the weak ones who get the most puffed-up about their"not sure what iam talking about" beliefs. If you are actully educated on what you claim to be your beliefs, then you (I) dont get offened by the weak, and I have no reason to explain myself to small minded people who wouldnt "get it" anyways.Hey Dimitri, you should educate yourself before you try to argue the point, you would find that you will feel like a dumb-ass.

You were saying? You should stop mumbling.
At overall it's not very wise in attempting to insult, and it certainly is a no-can-do if you are a newb and haven't contributed anything yet. Eat a bulletcake ;\)


Edited by Dimitri (10/17/10 02:25 PM)
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#43676 - 10/18/10 12:27 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dimitri]
Doomsayer3079 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 7
Loc: idaho
right..i corrected this under "Satanism". Eat a bulletcake... hehehe, i like it.
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#43678 - 10/18/10 12:38 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Doomsayer3079]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
YOU HAVE BEEN HERE JUST AS LONG AS I HAVE AND ARE GETTING WARINIGS. USE THEM WISELY OR YOU WILL BE GONE FROM THIS SITE. YOU SEEM TO STILL WANT TO BE A SMART ASS AND THAT WON'T WORK AT ALL. JUST TRYIN TO HELP FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE. CALM YOUR TONE!!
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#43681 - 10/18/10 01:09 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: manofsteel]
Doomsayer3079 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 7
Loc: idaho
No manofsteel i am not being a smart ass. i said "right" because i accepted getting called on my stupidity, but that does happen to us all from time to time we are human and humans error (have a dumb-ass attack). I did really try to redeem myself under a different forum category "Satanism", where i was first called on it. And i Really did genuinely like the bulletcake comment, it made me smile, honestly....no smart-assedness in that. I simply just left a quick message there to be sure the message was dually noted. Not tryin to be a smart-ass, i also know how this forum runs.
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#43683 - 10/18/10 02:09 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: mountaingoat]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



This question raises an interesting point for me.

On the one hand, it may be wise to keep your identity as a Satanist secret in order to protect yourself, safeguard what you have earned, and to continue to pursue your goals in a world which is largely confused by the meaning of Satanism or else overtly hostile to it.

On the other hand, do you stand up and declare yourself before the world as Dr’s LaVey and Aquino did, and many others as well, with a belief that such a declaration will not only further a movement of great value, but will also be a statement of truth, personal integrity and sincerity.

I can understand the clergy or agents of a Satanic organisation declaring themselves in public (presenting an accurate picture of Satanism for the public is valuable) but I am not sure about anybody else?

I do not necessarily view Satanism as a cause to be furthered, but rather as an intimate description of me and a tool to be used for my own ends.

I do not declare myself. I keep my identity secret.

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#43686 - 10/18/10 04:03 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: ta2zz]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Mountaingoat, Asmedious, and Ta2zz,

I won't try to copy any of what you said, but I totally agree.

To Mountaingoat...

You sound cool and collected, and your post was well thought out, and had seemingly no bullshit whatsoever... that, my friend, is appreciated.

Asmedious,

I find myself in the same category these days, I just don't give a shit. Maybe I'm not a "true Satanist"... and I could give a rat's ass what anyone thinks. I make my own standards, I know what I've learned. There is no "challenge"... anyone going to tuck me in bed at night?

Ta2zz...

Why you would waste your time with Dimitri on this is beyond me, but I guess it needed to be done. I like the Puh-bah reference though, I used to love Fraggle Rock... still do.

I think I was "Born into This"... but maybe that was just a Bukowski documentary I watched... I was raised Roman Christian Catholic... my mother is a lay minister... I guess I'm some anomaly then. That is, according to Dimitri's "Born Muslim, Born Mormon, Born Christian"... and to give him credit, ugh, that's not what he (or she, we don't know these days) meant... it's about "Nurture" not "Nature"...

I'd like now a show of hands to those who have been raised in a Satanic environment.

Oh, one guy, in the back? Oh, he just wanted another beer.

Okay, how about those who have been raised in mainstream religious viewpoints?

Much more hands...

Born into, raised... who the fuck cares anyway?

Maybe someday kids will be "born and raised" Satanists... but decide to become Christians...

Maybe they were "Born Christian". Yikes.

Yeah, good times.

You seem alright Mountaingoat dude, don't screw it up by getting weird on us.

Daeve.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43703 - 10/19/10 05:43 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: daevid777]
benisasatanist Offline
banned
stranger


Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Only when I decide to wear my LaVey shirt. Most of my family and friends know I'm involved in Satanism. Strangers see the shirt and ask me who LaVey is sometimes. When I tell them he founded The Church of Satan, some are shocked, some are puzzled but most are interested. Some people, such as large guys who look like they may have a "personal relationship" with jebus, I lie to and tell them LaVey was just a writer and a philosopher.


Edited by benisasatanist (10/19/10 06:00 AM)
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#43714 - 10/20/10 03:38 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: benisasatanist]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Well,

You seem younger than 27... maybe at 18 I might be wearing some controversial shit... especially something as hideous as LaVey's big ol' bald head on my shirt. I'm sure he would have thought it funny, but I don't know how much he would have liked it, unless he was the one getting paid.

So you do it for shock value and fun, then if it gets heavy, you deny the founder of what I presume to be your belief system to save your own ass. Is that the summation of the story?

benisasatanist... I bequeath the name... Peter. For your excellence in Denial in the face of adversity!

Good luck! Peter.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43726 - 10/21/10 02:55 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: daevid777]
benisasatanist Offline
banned
stranger


Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Well,You seem younger than 27...

Thanks, I appreciate it man.

 Quote:
maybe at 18 I might be wearing some controversial shit...

You consider a tee-shirt with a picture of Anton LaVey to be "controversial?"
 Quote:
especially something as hideous as LaVey's big ol' bald head on my shirt.
"Hideous?" lol You sound like you're critiquing my drapes in my living room.
 Quote:
I'm sure he would have thought it funny,
yes, he did have quite the sense of humor from what I've seen.
 Quote:
but I don't know how much he would have liked it
Hey, cool opinion man! With that and a quarter you can buy a piece of gum.
 Quote:
So you do it for shock value and fun,
No, I do it because Satanism is a part of my life and I like the shirt.
 Quote:
then if it gets heavy, you deny the founder of what I presume to be your belief system to save your own ass.


Yeah, exactly, self-preservation is the highest law bud. I have no need to become some "Satanic Martyr." LaVey himself mentioned the need of some Satanists to keep their beliefs private if they become an obstacle in the path of one's success.
 Quote:
benisasatanist... I bequeath the name... Peter. For your excellence in Denial in the face of adversity!

Good luck! Peter.


Thanks, Captain bring down McPretentious-pants! Nice to meet you too! Can you teach me the ways of The Jedi?


Edited by benisasatanist (10/21/10 03:45 AM)
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