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#61451 - 11/16/11 12:01 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1753
Loc: New York
I don't know, it's really a tough call.

When I was back in the old country a few years ago, I used to ride around on an old Soviet bike that everyone who saw it thought it was a cheap piece of shit, but I loved the thing. I could have easily purchased a Yamaha which was the "in" thing back then, but although I think they are great bikes and look nice, I still preferred the old piece of crap.

So on one hand I could say that I was making an original, independent choice, but then I also realize that choice had to be inspired by something at some time that I can't quite put my finger on. Some might say that I was craving to be different from everyone else, but that also doesn't sit right with me, because I could have still been different by riding an exotic make that no one had, yet they would have found to be very impressive.


Edited by Asmedious (11/16/11 12:04 PM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#61460 - 11/16/11 03:22 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: FemaleSatan]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan

Painters and paints is a nice analogy, but is just another way to defend the fashion is self expression meme.


By that logic, art is not a form of self-expression but a method of defending a meme that serves the purposes of canvas makers and art shops. Alternatively...

 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan

POB, how exactly have you resisted that system of control?


Like religion and the Wizard of Oz, once advertising is seen for what it is the illusions that it creates evaporate.

Simply being aware of how advertising works (and understanding that it is not interested in my happiness) hands me back the power to raise myself above that system of control.

I'm then in a position to ask myself what it is that I truly want and from that I can construct what I wear (among other things - this "deprogramming" effects all my interactions with the market place) in keeping with something that is pleasing to me, regardless of what advertisers want.

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#61475 - 11/16/11 06:10 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: dark_wind]
exorcist Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 16
I'm not the kind of person to wear a giant Pentagram on my shirt. I just say what I believe and I don't care what people would think of me. What I am is not my problem. I don't try to disguise myself. Some people judge from what they see.
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#61484 - 11/16/11 08:41 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: FemaleSatan]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I don't care about where my clothes are made or any of that shit.
I dress and wear what I enjoy wearing.
I love my corsets, fetish wear, leather stuff, black clothes, jeans, and some of my business type suits.

I also know how to make clothes, and have made several dresses and outfits for people over the years.

It's a tool, a camouflage device, or a fashion statement.

You wear the clothes, the clothes should not wear you.

On that note, I do have some blatant Satan type shirts that I do enjoy wearing when the time is right.

I just don't feel the need to advertize that I'm not to be fucked with. They find that out soon enough.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#61486 - 11/16/11 09:42 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Morgan]
Vondraco Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Houston, TX
I love you, Morgan. As my ancestors once said, you speak my heart.
_________________________
Mathematician by training, Philosopher by nature
Genius by genetics, Hedonist by desire!

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#61498 - 11/17/11 05:46 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: PrinceOfBabalon
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan

Painters and paints is a nice analogy, but is just another way to defend the fashion is self expression meme.


By that logic, art is not a form of self-expression but a method of defending a meme that serves the purposes of canvas makers and art shops. Alternatively...


I'd not go so far to consider "dressing" as similar to art unless you equate it with collage, which is considered art but in the end is nothing but slapping stuff together which others created.

Of course one can dress to maximize certain results. If you want to get some love, dressing the homeless style usually doesn't work too well. As a women, dressed in red maximizes attention.

Most of these are self-evident but I'd not link too much grandeur to it because ultimately you can be dressed however you want, if the one in that clothing hasn't got the skills to accomplish what he wants, nothing he wears will ever change that.

D.

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#61742 - 11/23/11 10:58 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: dark_wind]
S8ANIST Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 3
The question seems to be analogous to: the belief that the world is flat predominates, therefore do I conceal my well-reasoned, evidence-based position that the planet is spherical? I admit this is not a perfect comparison. However, I raise it because I believe it more vividly illustrates the tension between uncomfortable truths and societal convention.

No one of us would dream of concealing our knowledge that the earth is round. Why, then, should I go to lengths to "conceal" that there is no god, no jebus, no heaven, and no hell? Why conceal that you subscribe to a philosophy that stands in proud opposition to the systemic (and demonstrable) hypocrisy and exploitation that is christianity (or religion, for that matter)? From my perspective, there is as much reasoned argument and evidence for the Satanic perspective as there is that we exist on an orb hurtling through the vast universe.

I will not defer to those in the flat earth society just because they out number me (indeed, I can think of few things more un-Satanic). It may somehow be "polite" to accept the perverse hegemony of christianity, but count me out. If my Pentagram offends, well, the little jebus sticks that so many wear around their necks offend me.

EMBRACE REASON!
HAIL THYSELF!
HAIL SATAN!!!!

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#61763 - 11/24/11 12:33 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: S8ANIST]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
You're analogy sucks. Just because someone keeps their Satanity to themselves, doesn't mean they are doing it out of politeness or are somehow conforming to society's standards.

I personally keep it to myself in opposition of the societal standard to push one's own shit on other people. It's nobody's business but my own what my philosophical /religious / beliefs are.

The enemy that strikes the hardest is the one that blends in and is unseen.
_________________________
http://female-satan.blogspot.com


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#61770 - 11/24/11 03:28 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: S8ANIST]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If one is to base themselves in that logic, being action for the sake of sticking your foot up the ass of that which is vile and rotten based in whatever reasoning, there are certainly better ways than martyrdom.

Those that wear Satanism as an identity simply to display their distaste only paint a target on their own back, while accomplishing little of value in the way of actually doing something about the problem.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#61860 - 11/26/11 06:41 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Dan_Dread]
thedeadidea Offline
member


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 209
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

Those that wear Satanism as an identity simply to display their distaste only paint a target on their own back, while accomplishing little of value in the way of actually doing something about the problem.


Mental masturbation needs mental porn perhaps a Wanker's interpretation of pure indulgence ?

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#61866 - 11/26/11 02:09 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Diavolo]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'd not go so far to consider "dressing" as similar to art unless you equate it with collage, which is considered art but in the end is nothing but slapping stuff together which others created.


I think this definition of art is much too limiting. In a very real sense, all art is nothing more than "slapping stuff together which others created." What makes it artistic (or not) is the way you slap it together, and the effect it produces on the audience.

Consider, for example, three works of early 20th-century art:

--the painting The Cathedral Scene from Faust by Frank Cadogan Cowper;

--the sculpture Unique Forms of Continuity in Space by Umberto Boccioni;

--and the "ready-made" sculpture Bicycle Wheel by Marcel Duchamp.

(I chose these examples because I own reproductions of all three, either sitting on my computer desk, or hanging above it)

Of these three, the painting is the one that most people would recognize as "art." It's executed in the naturalistic style of the Pre-Raphaelites, and the original was created out of nothing but blank canvas and oil paint, using the traditional skills and talents of the painter. And yet, it's the most "slapped-together" of the three, by virtue of its very naturalism. Every item in the painting, from the interior of the cathedral, to the clothing worn, to the expressions on people's faces, is a careful imitation of things that exist in the real world. Even the fantastic subject matter was appropriated from a work of literature.

The sculpture by Boccioni is considerably less naturalistic in style, but still depends for its effect on a careful combination of references to real-world objects, ranging from the powerful body of the helmeted warrior, striding forward, to the flaglike flapping of cloth, used to suggest movement in a static medium.

Duchamp's ready-made, by contrast, is just a bicycle wheel and struts, turned upside down and mounted on a stool. What makes it a sculpture is the intervention of the artist. Though Duchamp's ready-mades have often been deprecated, and denounced for not being art, the procedure he followed was no different from the procedures of Cadogan Cowper and Boccioni. He took objects from the environment--stuff which other people had created--and slapped them together in a new and interesting way. And in the process, he mocked the pretensions of establishment art, which pooh-poohed anything that was not naturalistic in style and created using traditional craft techniques.

Viewed in this light, dress can certainly be an art, even if its materials are just mass-produced junk--like a bicycle wheel. What matters is not the medium, but the talent of the artist, and the receptivity of the audience. Most people fail to dress in an artistic fashion, not because they don't make their own clothing, but because they simply have no talent for dressing themselves, or dress themselves in ways that other people find aesthetically unappealing.

I would also take issue with your claim that self-expression through clothing is a creation of modern consumerism. In fact, self-expression through clothing and body modification is as old as humanity itself. As Thorstein Veblen argued, the wealthy have always used dress as a form of conspicuous consumption, inciting the envy of their peers by inscribing their prowess right on their bodies. What is more, fashions have always been weapons in this status-competition.

The only difference between now and then is the enormous wealth created by industrialization, which has allowed even the comparatively poor to play the game, while raising the bar for the comparatively wealthy and leisured. This is one reason why thinness for women and fitness for men are valued so highly in our society. In a society where food is abundant, work is increasingly sedentary, and anyone can be fat, the only way to one-up your competitors is either to starve yourself thin (thereby consuming your own body) or to waste endless hours at the gym, building muscles that are every bit as superfluous as a Swiss watch or a German sedan.

Finally, this is not a game that we can refuse to play. It's part of our nature to seek to incite the envy of others through conspicuous consumption and conspicuous waste. (Indeed, envy is one of the sins covered by the Eighth Satanic Statement, which lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.) Those of us who drop out of the mass culture merely create a counterculture. Instead of saying, "look at me in my woven-linen suit with pleated trousers, button-down cotton and linen shirt by Basile, silk tie by Joseph Abboud, and ostrich loafers from Susan Bennis Warren Edwards," we say, "look at me in my second-hand or hand-made clothes--I don't care about your fashions, you mindless consumerist drones. I have transcended you."

This creates a win-win situation for us. If people reject us, then we win--their rejection only confirms our low opinion of them, and our own sense of our own superiority to the swinish multitude. If they accept us, then we win--taking their acceptance as evidence of our own unbending individualism, and our ability to force society to accept us on our own terms.
_________________________
An illusion--with intelligence! A malignant vision, with a will of pure evil!

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#61908 - 11/27/11 10:05 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Goliath]
thedeadidea Offline
member


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 209
No I am not a satanist in public because I suffer from multiple personalities disorder as soon as I leave the front door my name is Ted and I am a christian.

I fucking hate Ted he is an asshole.

regards,
TDI (satanist)

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#62248 - 12/06/11 06:26 AM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: thedeadidea]
acf6767 Offline
lurker


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Oxford, Ohio
It really depends. I'd never come out and say I was if the topic of conversation wasn't relative. There is no reason why any of us would go around screaming it to the world, whoever does that could not be a true Satanist and they're probably just doing it for the reaction.

Don't get me wrong, I love the reaction of the few who know. Two seperate occassions I told complete strangers I was Satanic; The first, a Christian shit head was "spreading the word of god" and when he approached me, I smiled and said, "I'm Satanic." The look on his face was amusing. The second time, I was in a fight with a guy and he was very religious. He did not want to fight, and was trying the whole Jesus method on me (What would Jesus do?). While he was spewing some religious shit at me, I stopped, said "I'm Satanic" and punched him in the side of the head. Those are my two favorite moments of letting people know I was Satanic.

I'm never hesitant about declaring what I am, it's who I am. But I will only if that is the direction the conversation is going. Obviously being 17 and in a Christian household, I can't exactly be open. Covering my own ass, you know? It has always amused me of how people react. If someone says they're Christian, it's a simple smile and conversation keeps going happily. If someone says they're Satanic, the other person automatically makes judgements and thinks horribly of the person. The one religion who's deeply into not judging others, ends up being the one who judges. Oh the irony.

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#62271 - 12/06/11 12:52 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Morgan]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
I don't care about where my clothes are made or any of that shit.
I dress and wear what I enjoy wearing.
I love my corsets, fetish wear, leather stuff, black clothes, jeans, and some of my business type suits.

I also know how to make clothes, and have made several dresses and outfits for people over the years.

It's a tool, a camouflage device, or a fashion statement.

You wear the clothes, the clothes should not wear you.

On that note, I do have some blatant Satan type shirts that I do enjoy wearing when the time is right.

I just don't feel the need to advertize that I'm not to be fucked with. They find that out soon enough.

Morgan


This is pretty much how it is for me too. I have a few necklaces I wear from time to time, a few shirts.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#62280 - 12/06/11 05:45 PM Re: Are you a Satanist in public [Re: Ember]
TillTheDayIDie Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 23
I think its good to show just enough at the right times. Otherwise youre opening up trouble for yourself and people jamming shit down your throat unnecessarily.

Unless you desire that sort of thing, as I sometimes do.

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