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#20198 - 02/11/09 08:32 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Nobody ever knows everything about anything, however we can know enough to make informed decisions based on the information that IS available. On matters of cosmology, there is no evidence or sound theory that leads to anything resembling the concept of god or gods. The information that IS available leads in an entirely different direction.


I consider myself a "model" agnostic which applies not only to gods but any type of certainty. When it comes to making an informed decision I'll deny any personnel god put before me. My problems with the term Atheism is mostly one of semantics and certitude. Many times I see the term Atheism apply to a broad array of god definitions not only the personnel god. I take into consideration intelligence as a property of the universe and the possibility that it may not only exist exclusively in a human skull. Some people equate that view with god but to me that's not necessarily the case. For all practical informed decisions I carry myself as an Atheist. Since agnosticism also deals with the problem of the acquisition of knowledge (especially in the light of General Semantics), the failure to be able to define god (ignostic), I like this tem in the interest of philosophical clarity.


 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Are you agnostics really so afraid to lack a belief in gods/toothfairies/whatever? Keep a little extra belief around just in case?

I see slapping generic labels on people makes it easier for you to feel as if your winning an argument. Do you find that works well for you?
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#20202 - 02/11/09 09:11 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: The AntiChris]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Don't be ridiculous. You applied that label to yourself.

Also, I was not 'arguing'. I was just highlighting why agnosticism is an inherently weak position that doesn't really hold under any sort of scrutiny. I don't really expect you to understand why that matters.


Edited by Dan_Dread (02/11/09 09:12 PM)
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#20204 - 02/11/09 09:19 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: The AntiChris]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
(3. I claim there is an afterlife because claiming otherwise irritates me)

-That is the whole of how religions grasp such a huge audience. People do not like insecurity, the unknown, and the like. People have to know what is going on...or at least convince themselves that they do. That is why CNN-and-like newscasters still get the audience they do. The majority(unless retarded) will admit that the news they recieve is at least 50% bull-shit, yet they watch. They watch because they would rather hear bull-shit and take from it what they are comfortable with than admit they truly know nothing about what is going on in the world. They do not want to face everyday knowing they know nothing. Basically, as you stated in your post, it is a comfort factor. The whole of people who "believe" may be "strong," you may be "brave," but you are all, the whole of you, cowards. Every last one of you. You are afraid you are nothing more than a fraction of a second. You are afraid that you, in all your might, are nothing more than wormfood. Simply because you have the capacity to convince yourself that there is more, you think it is okay, you think that is it so. None of you have any reason whatsoever to think there is a "god." You are sad and lame.

...and might I add, delusional.


Edited by blsk (02/11/09 09:21 PM)
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#20207 - 02/11/09 09:41 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: blsk
They watch because they would rather hear bull-shit and take from it what they are comfortable with than admit they truly know nothing about what is going on in the world. They do not want to face everyday knowing they know nothing... You are afraid you are nothing more than a fraction of a second. You are afraid that you, in all your might, are nothing more than wormfood.


So with regard to the afterlife question, are you agnostic or a definite naysayer? Whichever you are, what is your reward for holding that position? Is it self-esteem?

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#20209 - 02/11/09 09:56 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Zoid]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
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Loc: salem or
What makes you think you or I are deserving of a reward? What makes you think we are deserving of anything? That is a question for fairytales. The night in shining armor gets the maiden! the martyr gets salvation! I do not believe any of it for a VERY simple reason. I have no reason to. Why should I? Why should I believe there is anything more? Because I was told so? Sorry, need more than that. I look around me, I look at nature(the only fact there is) and I learn from it. I have no reason to think there is more, so I wont.
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#20212 - 02/11/09 10:03 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Belief in consciousness existing free of the brain is archaic and medieval. Beneath any real thinker.
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#20214 - 02/11/09 10:06 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Dan_Dread]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
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Loc: salem or
Exactly. It is like I have said before. The brain is an organ, the mind is what it does, it is more a verb than a noun. When the brain dies, so does the mind, much like the pulse when the heart dies.

Edited by blsk (02/11/09 10:07 PM)
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#20216 - 02/11/09 10:25 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
There's GREAT freedom in knowing that there is nothing beyond this thing we call life. It frees you to know that you have this one shot to get it right, for good or for ill, it all boils down to what you make of it here and now. You learn quickly to take responsibility and with that responsibility, control.
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#20217 - 02/11/09 10:34 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Jake999]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Thank you Jake. That(I hope I am not getting off topic here) reminds me of the very meaning of Satanism. It is, in essence, "satanic" to rebel, to question, to oppose those you are tought are unopposable, unquestionable. There is THIS life. You have NO reason to think otherwise. The christian ideal is to "marry in the faith!" Fuck that! Love who you will, hate who you will, do what YOU will(not"god") and if any oppose..QUESTION who you will! The why and the wherefor!
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#20225 - 02/11/09 11:34 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
The afterlife is one of the few concepts that most people will not let go of easily, even if they don't call themselves "religious". It is because the human mind, in its instinct of self-preservation, creates a sort of irrational "need" to believe in things like the afterlife, because accepting the reality would be too sanity-crushing for much of the human race.

Some say that when faced with oblivion, life becomes meaningless, but like Jake said, it actually GIVES life meaning, knowing that it's all we have, so we know it counts for something.

-------------

Edit: HELLZ YAH, 4,000th post in the General Conversation forum. I rock. Oh yeah.


Edited by The Zebu (02/11/09 11:36 PM)
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#20226 - 02/11/09 11:41 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Dan_Dread]
The AntiChris Offline
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Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
I was speaking of the way you choose to narrow your understanding of how agnosticism works and is applied. Your obtuse opinion of weakness does not change the fact that a healthy agnosticism towards everything, including one's own sacred cows, is the only reasonable position an intellectual can take. Growth dies with any position of dogmatic certainty. As far as what matters?
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I don't really expect you to understand why that matters.

I think I am starting to understand why clinging on to a certainty that doesn't exist matters to you.
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#20229 - 02/11/09 11:57 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: The AntiChris]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Apparently nobody cares about my totally awesome 4,000th post... you're all a hopeless crowd.

Edited by The Zebu (02/11/09 11:57 PM)
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#20230 - 02/12/09 12:02 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: The AntiChris]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
( in its instinct of self-preservation, creates a sort of irrational "need" to believe in things like the afterlife, because accepting the reality would be too sanity-crushing for much of the human race.)

-Well that is my point exactly. The reason people cannot comprehend nothingness is because it goes against the entire purpose of contiousness all together. That is my point. The purpose of the mind is to create a constant flow of contiousness. To ask it to do anything other is like asking your eyes to hear or your ears to see. That is not what they do. Need I really go on?



(I was speaking of the way you choose to narrow your understanding of how agnosticism works and is applied)

-How can you possibly narrow agnosticism? To be "agnostic" (and please, for the sake of others, if you want to get into a debate of semantics PLEASE p.m. me) means that you HAVE to keep the option open for there to be a god; you also have to keep the option open for faries, goblins, ghosts, and the like in order to be truly honest with yourself as far as posibility is concerned. If not you are showing favoritism; you are showing favoritism to a judeo-christian-like "god"or"creator." How honest, then, are you being with yourself?


Edit: HELLZ YAH, 4,000th post in the General Conversation forum. I rock. Oh yeah.
HIGH-FUCKIN-5!!!!!i'M DRINKING TO IT AS WE SPEAK!!!


Edited by blsk (02/12/09 12:04 AM)
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#20231 - 02/12/09 12:08 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
My six year old daughter asked how old my cat is... I told her ten years old...

I told her that my cat is older than she is... then she asked me where she was when my cat was a kitten...

Wise ass...


4,000th post! Hooray! Awesome!
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#20233 - 02/12/09 12:15 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: daevid777]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
I'm sorry, I read your post over a few times and still I fail to see what that has to do with the topic at hand. Your daughter asked about life(basically), what does that have to do with what we are talking about?
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