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#20234 - 02/12/09 12:22 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Okay, right on, sorry if that was "cryptic"...

In her simplicity, she brought down the world...

As this applies to "agnosticism" - what would I tell her? "She didn't exist..." true statement?

Taking the next step - when she dies... "she won't exist..."

Are these things separate, maybe I'm just reading too much into this discussion?
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#20236 - 02/12/09 12:35 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: daevid777]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Okay...unless you have TOTALLY thrown me for a spin, I think what you are getting at is that she is asking questions you are not comfortable with. She is getting into a topic you do not know the "best" answer to. Between you and me, seriously, what is wrong with the truth?? Aside from (self-destructive)pride what is wrong with saying "I don't know?" Failure and unanswered questions are only a hinderance for people of faith, they are so because "god" has no answers. Having all the answers is a faith-based idea. You are not less perfect for it, you are realistic. There is no real correct answer for your child at a young age. Do not help them understand that you don't know, just help them understand WHY you don't know...that will make THEM seek the truth.
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#20237 - 02/12/09 12:53 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: blsk]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
No... I guess I'm not making my point clear...

Thanks, though, I think you were being "nice" *shudder*, and I appreciate it... (I told her she wasn't born... and she wasn't around - she accepted this, btw)

I was making a now ridiculous "allegoric reference"... if some here actually believe that some kind of "soul" lives on in some kind of "afterlife", then the question of "before conception" would be a sort of "jumping off point".

I mean, if we are "immortal" in "spirit" as suggested, where are these guys now? And are they just hangin' around waiting to incorporate a physical human body or something?

Bad, misunderstood, "joke", I guess.
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#20248 - 02/12/09 05:10 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Jake999]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
First a quote by Dan_Dread:

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Belief in consciousness existing free of the brain is archaic and medieval. Beneath any real thinker.


As I try to grasp the motivations for affirming ego extinction, I conclude that pride/vanity/self-esteem is one of them, certainly for Dan_Dread and blsk. Fabiano and Jake have offered this other one:

 Originally Posted By: Jake999
There's GREAT freedom in knowing that there is nothing beyond this thing we call life. It frees you to know that you have this one shot to get it right, for good or for ill, it all boils down to what you make of it here and now. You learn quickly to take responsibility and with that responsibility, control.


The pride/vanity/self-esteem motivation doesn't compel me for the simple reason that my vanity arises from different origins. For example, I am vain about my ability to program myself with propositions that serve my intent. If a medieval/archaic proposition served my intent, I would program myself with it and admire my ability to do so.

The "one shot to get it right" motivation compels me quite strongly, but I find it easy to take a "one shot to get it right" attitude without affirming ego extinction, and I'll explain why. There appear to be three possibilities:

1. Ego extinction.
2. Ego continuance in a domain no scientific apparatus can detect.
3. Ego continuance minus memory via reincarnation.

Number 3 doesn't preclude number 2 as an interim experience.

Now, if there is ego extinction, I get one shot to live this Zoid life the best I can. If there is ego continuance in a domain no scientific apparatus can detect, I still get only one shot to live this Zoid life the best I can. Finally, if there is ego continuance minus memory via reincarnation, I nevertheless get just one shot to live this Zoid life the best I can.

Incidentally, I have taken quite a liking to this "one shot to get it right" proposition, and am in the process of programming myself with it, as it very definitely serves my intent.

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#20260 - 02/12/09 09:24 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Zoid]
ortho Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 25
Loc: France.Paris
what is the ego?
"Cogito ergo sum" , Descartes.
What is religion?
"religare", to connect (people together).
What is the background of any religion?
( in Asia, in America, in Europe, in Africa, in the middle of the Ocean...etc...?)
Education, and childhood.
What's your parents have given to you is bringing you will, to resist or to developpe this point of view as they put in your head, in your brain as a "brain washing" in every part of you, the taste to eat something during meal, your point of view for show'off,for fashion with clothes, for your image you have for sex in the most inconsciouss part somewhere in your libido.
Why do you like this sort of man or girl, why do you prefer this woman than this man or this other woman?
Religion is the same.No one is absolutely free from childhood.
If you are connected with the "egregore" the "sanctus spiritus" of this assembly you are felling OK with it, until you practise is going to take some attitude, or fashion.
May be you are following or participating to some rituals at home alone or during sabbat with other members (halloween,etc...)
May be you haven't anyone.
For christians they rejoice during Easter and some attitudes are done during the same time, also for hindous or buddhists, muslims,etc.If you do something out of their habits, they look at you as an E.T.
It is the same in a soccer matches.Here in France we have some people who become savages and absolutely crazy when they are going to a match with their friends (a sort of "Holligan").As soon they come in the stadium they seem to be catched by a big "ego" a big "form" who creates uncounscious act and "wrong" attitudes.They want only to fight or to beat someone.(Why not? or why they do so?)
They are able to said, later, even if they have killed a man: "I don't remember at all what it happened!what I done! "
That is the possibilty for every people to lose their mind, and the sense of life and responsability- in front of the society-
Satanisme is interesting for me because, It brings you to a sense of responsability, a sens of awareness in a sens of liberty: I can act as I want as long I'm responsible and conscious of what I want and what I do.
The true nature of the ego is there, now!
Bye.

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#20262 - 02/12/09 11:47 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Dimitri]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
What's amazing is that this post has 4 pages of replies. (though some of the responses have been fun and or insightful re: the OP)

The simple answer is No.

The slightly less simple answer is. No, even though alot of people 'feel' the need for religion, they don't 'need' it anymore than they need a big screen tv or a new pair of shoes. Just because the herd has been prgrammed to feel a need for something, does not mean the need exists.

An even less complicated answer would be, read the first reply to the OP. That pretty much tied it up.
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#20266 - 02/12/09 02:03 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Master Magick]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Well, quite straight and simple answer : "No"

Now, some straight and simple questions :

- Do you consider yourself as a Satanist ?
- Do you consider Satanism as a religion ?

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#20267 - 02/12/09 02:25 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Fabiano]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano
Well, quite straight and simple answer : "No"

Now, some straight and simple questions :

- Do you consider yourself as a Satanist ?
- Do you consider Satanism as a religion ?



Appears to be directed at my reply, so:

1. Yes. Always have been. Satanism as a religion being given a name for me after reading TSB somewhere around 1976. Even though I already lived by most of what was described there.
2. Yes. Satanism as defined in TSB is a religion. It doesn't matter what I think it is.
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#20285 - 02/12/09 08:44 PM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Zoid]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: Zoid
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you and I share a common trait.
...
But we hold propositions in our heads that serve our intent, and that is what counts for me, and perhaps for you as well.


Ooops, it seems I missed this one. Sorry Zoid.

Look at what I already posted here:
 Quote:
Based on my own experience, the "mechanism" of my personal magic can me summarised to:
- Will, Volition
- Intuition. Listening to my subconscious.
- Auto-manipulating myself. Modelling my own mind in order to better deserve my goals.


Few days ago, I read here
 Quote:
how we choose to look at the world, will shape the reality of your world.

I think it goes in the same direction...

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#20303 - 02/13/09 05:11 AM Re: Is religion needed? [Re: Fabiano]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano
Look at what I already posted here:
 Quote:
Based on my own experience, the "mechanism" of my personal magic can me summarised to:
- Will, Volition
- Intuition. Listening to my subconscious.
- Auto-manipulating myself. Modelling my own mind in order to better deserve my goals.



Yes. We clearly are in sync in this regard. I will be posting a thread that follows this line of thought: "Satanic Will & Satanic Heart."

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