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#17733 - 01/06/09 11:37 PM Re: Homeless [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
The same people that pay for all social programs: the people actually generating the capital.

Whether they want to or not.


With that said, and knowing the tax man is going to continue to steal from us all (read:those of us that work) for a seemingly indefinite stint into the future. I think taking such a measure would cost 'us' less than letting them continue to drug out on a free buck. And for those that are using welfare for its intended purpose, a transitory state to get back on ones feet, a drug test should be no problem. After all, how serious can they be about bettering their situation if they are on drugs?
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#17734 - 01/06/09 11:44 PM Re: Homeless [Re: ceruleansteel]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Most people here seem intent on keeping their tax-dollar out of the hands of the "weak"...

How about the other, and in my book more important ways said tax-dollars is spent?
Politicians lunch and dinners?
Politicians wages?
Lunch, dinners and wages for the monstrous bureaucracy we are feeding?

Could it be that it is sooooo much easier to pick on the victim, than to pick on the bully?

What percentage of tax-dollars spent on welfare, actually ends up in the hands of applicants?

Only to piss in your drinking water...
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#17735 - 01/06/09 11:46 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Woland]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If you have read many of my posts (including posts from this thread) you would know that I think taxes are theft, period. It's all stolen money.
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#17736 - 01/06/09 11:49 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Dan_Dread]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
If you have read many of my posts (including posts from this thread) you would know that I think taxes are theft, period. It's all stolen money.


Dear Dan Dread...

You might have missed the fact that I was asking a general question.
I was not addressing your oh so Bakunish self...

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#17738 - 01/06/09 11:59 PM Re: Homeless [Re: ceruleansteel]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"Now THAT is a good idea. If an honest man cannot earn an honest wage without a drug test, people getting money for free should have to do it as well.

But who's gonna pay for that?"

I suppose that the tax payer would end up funding the program. As a way to further reduce the waste of funds there should be something else implimented where if someone who applies for welfare fails the drug test; there should be a mandatory waiting period before you can re-apply.
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#17740 - 01/07/09 12:02 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Woland]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, as one out of two people that was talking about taxes as it relates to people receiving it in the form of welfare, I could only assume you were talking directly to me, at least in part.

You made me google 'bakunish' and it turned up nothing. Bakun turned up nothing. My spellchecker doesn't like them.
At this point You could be either comparing me to a hydroelectric dam in Malaysia or a monster from 'dungeons&dragons'.

Either way, I'll assume it's a compliment \:\)
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#17744 - 01/07/09 12:25 AM Re: Homeless [Re: ceruleansteel]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Theft...er taxes, I mean.

On a positive note... a few very short stories - (sorry)

One night I was walking into a convenience store, and this elderly black gentleman asked if he could watch my car for me, while I was inside... I thought, that's a pretty good marketing strategy (even though I could see my car from inside the store). I came out, and he proudly stated that everything was A-okay, my car was fine. I paid him for his service, a few dollars I had on me. Either he was quite resourceful, or someone paid him mind, and a few weeks later, I saw him negotiating traffic and helping out with the parking situation at a local night spot... I think he even had on a safety vest...

Another time I was going into a store, and I saw this very old looking man (okay, he had a beard like ZZ-top, anyway, all white) sitting outside, and he asked me for some change, he was sitting with a younger man in fatigues, who kinda looked like he needed some prescription medication. I told him I'd meet up with him after I got my stuff. I was buying some beer and other crap, so I threw in two 24 ouncers and a couple of refigerated sandwiches. I came out, gave them both a beer and a sandwich, and about two bucks each. The older guy was very surprised, immediately opened his sandwich, turned to the younger one, and exclaimed "I'm done." They moved on. All he wanted was some food, a beer, and a couple of bucks.

I don't exactly have a point to either of these stories, sorry. I would like to argue that I don't think any of the aforementioned characters considered their situations "fun".
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#17745 - 01/07/09 12:28 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Coulda been worse, Dan... he could have been calling you Bukakkish...

But to get on the subject, homeless peopleare homeless for a variety of reasons, and while I agree it's a pain to have to feed them, there are places where the charities try, such as in San Francisco. It's all through private donations at places like St. Anthony's. Does it do any good? I don't know. There were a hell of a lot of homeless when I left.

But I do have to say that I have had a positive brush with a homeless person. My first day working in San Francisco, on Van Ness, I was on top of the world. It was about 7:30 AM and I was walking toward work with the other commuters. Had on my best three piece suit... my trench coat was open and whipping in the wind, was carrying my leather brief case and WHAM!!!!! I stepped on some wet leaves in the park across from the City Hall and landed flat on my face.

The commuters stepped over me or around me. I wasn't hurt, but I was stunned. One of the old homeless people that lived in cardboard near there shuffled up to me and helped me up, brushing me off. He said, "You ok, sir? Hell of a fall. Can I get you some help?"

I told him I was ok and looked him in the eyes. I'd been hungry and I'd been broke, and I'd been pretty down on my luck. But would I have done what he did? I don't know. I shook his hand and said thanks, and he turned to walk away. He didn't ask for my help, but I grabbed a $20 out of my wallet and said, "Hey... you dropped this." He took it, and I went to work.
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#17761 - 01/07/09 02:15 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Dan_Dread]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Well, as one out of two people that was talking about taxes as it relates to people receiving it in the form of welfare, I could only assume you were talking directly to me, at least in part.


Most participants in this thread has been mentioning welfare and/or tax-payers money, (as well as the obvious idiocy of Butterz).

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

You made me google 'bakunish' and it turned up nothing. Bakun turned up nothing. My spellchecker doesn't like them.
At this point You could be either comparing me to a hydroelectric dam in Malaysia or a monster from 'dungeons&dragons'.

Either way, I'll assume it's a compliment \:\)


It is a compliment, and its not a compliment...


The liberty of man consists solely in this, that he obeys the laws of nature because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been imposed upon him externally by any foreign will whatsoever, human or divine, collective or individual.

Mikhail Bakunin

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#17770 - 01/07/09 04:28 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
My partner works with homeless, amongst other subjects of human nature and it doesn't work out too well. It's only a minority that gets back on their feet, most just end where they started anyways. In many cased being homeless is just a matter of conditions. You wouldn't believe how many guys lost it after a divorce. wife and kids gone, alcohol to fill the gap, work gone, cash gone, house gone, lady alcohol please save me and you're pretty much on a roller coaster to doom. Not many escape the cycle. To a degree the difference between being homeless and societal success is just a matter of luck. Some bad luck at the right moment and you're pretty much on yourself. We don't have the safety-nets any longer where family or friends help you out on a rainy day. We tend to be more and more individually isolated and while it has its advantages, it does have its drawbacks too.
Once you're homeless and in debt, you're pretty much fucked. Debt has this nice little gimmick; it keeps growing, even if you do jackshit.

D.

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#17929 - 01/10/09 02:24 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Woland]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Woland
Most people here seem intent on keeping their tax-dollar out of the hands of the "weak"...

How about the other, and in my book more important ways said tax-dollars is spent?
Politicians lunch and dinners?
Politicians wages?
Lunch, dinners and wages for the monstrous bureaucracy we are feeding?

Could it be that it is sooooo much easier to pick on the victim, than to pick on the bully?

What percentage of tax-dollars spent on welfare, actually ends up in the hands of applicants?

Only to piss in your drinking water...


That is actually a very valid point. Often times the amount of money spent on corporate welfare outweighs the amount spent on normal, or "civil", welfare.
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#17930 - 01/10/09 02:46 AM Re: Homeless [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
(Could it be that it is sooooo much easier to pick on the victim, than to pick on the bully?)

-Well anyone you pic on is a victim, so how do you mean it here? Anyways, we are talking about the "victims" because that is the topic of this thread. If you want to pic on the "bully" as you put it, would be for another. But I wouldn't rightly call the homeless victims any more that any other person by any means.
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#17931 - 01/10/09 03:39 AM Re: Homeless [Re: blsk]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: blsk
(Could it be that it is sooooo much easier to pick on the victim, than to pick on the bully?)

-Well anyone you pic on is a victim, so how do you mean it here? Anyways, we are talking about the "victims" because that is the topic of this thread. If you want to pic on the "bully" as you put it, would be for another. But I wouldn't rightly call the homeless victims any more that any other person by any means.


Well; not quite at the level of "Butterz", but a nice try.
I will not rip your argument completely to shreds.
It seems that you are quite capable of doing so yourself...

I will fondle a bit though...

Anyone you pick on is not a victim.
You might try to victimize someone or something,
but it is by no means certain that you will succeed.
You might end up victimized yourself...
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#17941 - 01/10/09 10:19 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Woland]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Well, two cents on homelessness....

I grew up in Washington DC in the 80's. This was the height of 'Homeless Crisis.' Google Mitch Snyder. I spent a lot of time on the streets because this was also the height of the DC punk rock and hardcore scene and was a punk kid with no responsibilities.

In subsequent years I have lived in NYC and Baltimore. From my field research the homeless fall into a few categories and, of course, some fall into more than one category.

There is the Old Hippy. These guys didn't know that the Summer of Love was a scam to justify otherwise criminal behavior. I think a of the crap that went on in the 60's was just a feeding ground for users and abusers to take advantage of an otherwise very naive generation who were coddled by their Greatest Generation parents. The Old Hippy just didn't know when to get off the bus. While his compatriots had the good sense to become Yuppies and join the 'establishment,' the Old Hippy is still fighting the 'The Man.' Have fun with that. And don't ask me for shit!

Of course, we also have the Homeless Vet. In general, see above. A lot of these guys are just faking it. Others were losers when the joined the Army and only returned back to their sad state after couple years of service. Most of these guys are not combat vets. Nearly all were shit bags when they were in service too. I have known more than a few guys who couldn't get their act together after they left the Army and most of them didn't have their act together when they were in service. Again, don't ask me for shit!

This now brings us to the Junkie. Back in the old days we use to call them Winos. All of these guys have some sort of substance abuse problem. Do I really need to elaborate on why they are on the streets? The only thing I can say to them is "Don't ask me for shit!"

The 'Homeless' Criminal. These guys actually have a home. They spend their time time between various half-way houses and men's shelters, and their real home - jail. Essentially, they are so fucked up that no body wants to deal with them. These guys are also fully responsible for 100% of the aggressive pan-handlers you will encounter in most any city. This is my favorite sort of homeless because I truly enjoy torturing them.

In general, I don't care about the homeless any more than they care about me. The homeless certainly offend my sense of aesthetics but the are free to exist in any public place they choose. They are fundamentally free people.

In fact, given their complete lack of responsibilities it could be argued that they are more free than you average person with job, a car, a house, and some kids.

It is not a crime to be poor or homeless. It does not pick my pocket nor break my leg. However, where the homeless are bringing down property values or making public places unusable by the people who are paying the freight, 'we' do have compelling interest in moving them along.

However, I do not like pan-handlers. I hate aggressive pan-handlers. Pan-handling so offends my aesthetic senses that I usually can't help but insult pan-handlers. Aggressive pan-handlers usually get suprised by completely unnecessary and brutal beat down. When I say "Don't ask me for shit!" that means leave me alone. Woe be to he that does not heed this warning.

As the prophet says "The poor will always be with you." This is human nature.

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#17945 - 01/10/09 12:44 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Fist]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
The 'Homeless' Criminal. These guys actually have a home. They spend their time time between various half-way houses and men's shelters, and their real home - jail. Essentially, they are so fucked up that no body wants to deal with them. These guys are also fully responsible for 100% of the aggressive pan-handlers you will encounter in most any city. This is my favorite sort of homeless because I truly enjoy torturing them.

Somehow this little text magically let a smile appear on my face for a certain reason. Maybe because the honesty written in it?

About homeless, thus far in my life I've never been homeless luckily. It can change if I fuck things really up or have had some bad luck. So I can't give an opinion about "being homeless".
But like fist stated; there are different kinds of homeless people. The ones who had really bad luck, the born homeless criminals etc..
However I do feel a bit sorry for the homeless people who became it by bad luck or some things let them down, I don't help them or will not give them a little footstep. This UNLESS I happen to know them very well or am very sure how they ended up within thier current position. Why? Because people can lie and can put up a sad story which can give one tears in their eyes. And I'm not the kind of guy who gives away some of his energy for free to help those in need who don't deserve it. And since there's always doubt...
Maybe quite rude in some good do-ers eyes, but honestly I don't give a fuck. It's my human instinct/nature.
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