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#17967 - 01/11/09 12:13 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Fist]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Then there are the "true" homeless vets... maybe we're not seeing so many now, but perhaps in the 70's or 80's. This time may come again. People who are literally fucked in the head, who couldn't hack what happened or rationalize anything.

I could place them in the same category as the "truly insane" homeless person. They might not be actually using any drugs at all (although some might actually benefit from some sort of "medication") - undiagnosed "schizophrenia" comes to mind. Given the prevalence of available alcohol in our "society", I wouldn't doubt it if they became drunks.

Fist, what I especially enjoyed in your post was your conspicuous absence of "judgement". Just "Don't ask me for shit.". No reason for anyone to get entangled with someone else's business, and that goes both ways.

I also want to clarify my previous posts, so I don't come off like some kinda schmuck - the "military dude" and Mr. "ZZ-top" weren't asking anybody for anything... they were just hanging out at the front of the store, which happened to have a table and some benches. The ol' black dude was innovative, and perhaps he really thought he was doing a service of some kind - otherwise, great strategy.

I don't give to the "aggresive" homeless. The aggresive pan-handler that walks up to you and asks for "change". I am not about to be bothered like that, and I usually use a card to fill up on gas anyway, so "sorry, I'm broke".

I have had people come up and start washing my windows, and that's okay, for the most part. If they did this when my wife and children were in the car, it might be a different story.

Honestly, here, we don't have much of a "local" violent homeless type. A long standing joke has been that there is lithium in the water supply - maybe so, I wouldn't doubt it. Besides, although I'm not some "He-man", but I'm big enough and vigilant enough to make these fools think it wouldn't be worth their time to try anything stupid.

I do appreciate that there are other places where this may not be the case, and knowing that, your thoughts are most likely warranted.

I don't know what could be done. I don't know if this is a "social problem", or "individual choices". I think both.
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#17968 - 01/11/09 02:10 AM Re: Homeless [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
They need to make the shelters safer, and cleaner.
For those that want it.

2 kinds, homeless by choice, homeless by misfourtune.

By choice, there is nothing you can do. Some are crazier than a bedbug, and you just avoid them.

By misfourtune, well, you decide.
I give the old black woman sleeping on the street with her cart some money, but not hte young pan handlers who could actually work.

The most fucked up one was the chick acting blind one day with cane and the day before was playing a drum on the same train line.

The ones in ny well, you just have to be careful because over the years they have pushed people at random infront of trains.

M
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#17969 - 01/11/09 02:39 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Morgan]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
(They need to make the shelters safer, and cleaner.
For those that want it.)

-Who is "they," and why the fuck should they?!


(The ones in ny well, you just have to be careful because over the years they have pushed people at random infront of trains.)

-Which is exactly why they should be allowed to starve. Worthless, stray cattle killing what were most likely productive people.
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#17971 - 01/11/09 06:40 AM Re: Homeless [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Productive people what's that? Joe Six-pack working his shift and nicely paying his taxes? Is that productive?

I actually found the idea of the homeless pushing the productive in front of a train amusing. I think I'd even give the dude 20$ to have a drink, if not only for showing the world didn't stop turning at all.

D.

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#17976 - 01/11/09 09:56 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh, crap. You guys got me thinking. I forgot a few.

The Crazy. Yes, truly crazy people. These people really do have problems. It usually goes down like this. They have mental health issues. They can't maintain a normal life. They end up on the streets. They get into some sort of trouble, because, well their crazy. They get sent to a state mental hospital. The docs get them on meds that pretty much control their mental problems. The see a social worker and get on SSI. They get sent to a half-way house or shelter. After a few weeks of feeling 'normal' they stop taking their meds. They then fall back into the same cycle. You will see a solid cadre of these guys in any Veterans Hospital in the US.

And, how could I forget The Hustler. These guys actually don't have a problem. The are full time panhandlers. This is there job. They have various come-ons and props but in truth they make a living just asking people for money. Actually, they are not doing anything that every church in the country is also doing. They make their moron patron feel good about themselves and get paid for the service. However, they usually have a few tell-tales that betray their true status. It is sort of like watching a bad a magic show. My wife use to run this short-con herself when she was a kid in a large train station in DC. She would always say she was on a field trip from Baltimore and she missed the tour bus back home. She was 'just' $9.00 short to get a train ticket back to Baltimore. She had cute pixie like looks and usually made her mark. Google "professional panhandling" there are a ton of links and article about the profession.

There is a sucker born every minute....
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#17977 - 01/11/09 10:38 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Fist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Fist, that reminds me. Several months back the local paper had a journalist out interviewing the bums that sit at intersections with their sad-story signs, offering them jobs to get them off the streets. One panhandler that was interviewed gave the journalist a weird look and told him, "This IS my job". That pretty much says it all right there. I've also heard of people that drive to busy intersections in their BMW's, park behind a building, and con spare change out of passerby, only to hop back in after a few hours' work. I guess it's the thrill of it, or something, because if you drive a BMW, you sure as hell don't need the chump change you'd get from bumming.
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#17978 - 01/11/09 11:42 AM Re: Homeless [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Panhandling can be a pretty lucrative business if you are good at it. I have known people that take in a few hundred dollars a day. I recall one day in particular I made a few hundred dollars not even trying. It was just outside Folsom; me and my traveling companions were taking a break from walking in this grassy area that was right outside the parking lot of some shopping center. We were just sitting their telling jokes and playing guitar not even trying to panhandle. Long story short we ended up getting about $250 in the span of 30 minutes without any solicitation. Eventually some cop showed up, and thinking we were panhandling, kicked us out of the area. I think if more people knew just how prosperous being homeless can be if one puts in the effort; they wouldn't feel so inclined to take pity on them and shell out money to every homeless person they see.
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#17980 - 01/11/09 12:15 PM Re: Homeless [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
That's why I never give money directly to bums. I'll be damned if someone's going to make a living off of my generosity and hard-earned money. For one thing, they're probably just going to spend it on cigs and booze. I've been approached by bums at the 7/11 by my house, specifically asking for a couple bucks so they can buy cigarettes. I told him I don't smoke, and got in my car and drove off. It also just encourages them to keep bugging people for handouts. I think it should be illegal to give bums money directly, instead donate it to charities and missions where you know the money will be better spent on clothes, food and other necessities. That is, of course, if one actually gives a shit about the homeless enough to donate money to them. Which I don't. ;\)
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#17982 - 01/11/09 01:02 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Again, I don't think it should be illegal to give money to the homeless, whether it be directly or indirectly, as it is a personal choice. Just as much as it is your personal choice to not give them money. To me it is the same thing as someone else saying it should be illegal to not give them money. However, there are many places where panhandling is illegal. I am now beginning to wonder if one could recieve a ticket for giving a homeless person money in an area where panhandling is prohibited. You would think that it would happen because if panhandling is a crime then giving them money, in affect, makes you an accomplice to the crime. As far as charities or missions are concerned; you don't really know that the money is being better spent. The same goes when giving it directly to the homeless person. They may say they are going to spend it on food, or medication etc. but you have no way of proving that is what they spend it on. That is unless you follow them around and make sure it gets spent on what they say it will be spent on. Who really has the time for that though? I have had quite a few ask me for money specifically for booze or cigs. I respect them for their honesty but still I generally do not like to support the habits of others. Although I do give money on occasion, usually to traveling kids because I have been in that situation before and can sympathize. As a rule I tend not to give money because I am broke myself, but I take each on a case by case basis.
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#17990 - 01/11/09 03:29 PM Re: Homeless [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
There used to be a guy who was outside of the office I worked in on Van Ness in San Francisco. He sat there every day with a sign that said, "HOMELESS VET. WILL WORK FOR FOOD."

I'm a vet. I ran the office. I walked up to him one morning and said, "Hey, I'm a vet too. If you want work, I'll put you to work as the office runner and copyroom guy. It'll just be minimum wage at first, but once you're on the payroll, and if you apply yourself (I mean, really... how hard is it to apply yourself as the office runner and copyroom guy... I could guarantee you a raise in two months. " His response, "I don't want a fucking job."

I told him I was going back to the office, and if he was still there when I came down for lunch, he'd better be gone. He was.
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#17994 - 01/11/09 03:52 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Jake999]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
That is pretty lame. Not only is the guy trying to play on human sympathy by claiming to be a vet, but also advertises he will work food then returns your offer for a job with a statement like that? When I was homeless I did work when I could and often times when people would ignore my request for spare change I would ask if they could spare a job, with all seriousness. I never got any offers but I would have taken it if I had got one.
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#17997 - 01/11/09 07:22 PM Re: Homeless [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Picunnus Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Ohio, USA
So I guess we're meaning "homeless and jobless" when we say "homeless" in this thread? Because the one doesn't necessarily follow from the other.
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#17999 - 01/11/09 07:43 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Picunnus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Job ==>income==>housing

No job==>no income==>no housing

It all flows quite naturally. I guess there is the exception of people that hold down jobs while also being homeless, but that would be quite difficult, and the types of jobs one could do in that scenario would be very limited.
On the flip side, it is very hard to maintain housing without a source of income. If by 'job' you also mean 'income' I would say that they do, in fact, follow from one another.
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#18001 - 01/11/09 08:00 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Actually, there are a lot of homeless people who are day laborers (the ones who want to work, that is!). They take their pay in cash at the end of the day and undoubtedly fritter it away in the bar later than night. Some also have jobs via the missionaries, probably through temp agencies. So yes, the jobs they can do are very limited (think: illegal aliens), but it's still possible to work and be homeless.
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#18004 - 01/11/09 09:14 PM Re: Homeless [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ok. Temporary day labor is something different again. You could also classify squeegee guys and panhandlers empoyed by this rational.

But an ACTUAL job? Highly unlikely. The lower paying food service type jobs demand at least a certain level of hygiene which is difficult to maintain without a bathroom. And in the event that someone is responsible enough to get to work every day at an actual job, the chances of remaining homeless once the bread start flowing in is remote;because if you are responsible enough to hold down a job the chances are you possess a measure of responsibility and are not a drug addict or insane.
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