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#18821 - 01/25/09 02:18 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
I also recommend you refrain from using obvious fallacies like the ad hominem fallacy in your arguments. It belies your insecurities.


This made me laugh. I like to laugh, so thanks.
Irony is great stuff. By commenting on 'my insecurities' to add muscle to your argument, you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of. The difference is I know I am doing it and I don't give a shit. This isn't a 'debate'. This is me making fun of a nutter.

Yes, we are still using some things that have been around for a long time. So fucking what? That doesn't at all support your claim that there were 'superior' technologies in the past than what we have now. In fact, the incarnations of the pen,pencil,telescope, etc are all so far advanced from their prototypes, as to be unrecognizable.

But you know what? this is ridiculous. You can keep believing whatever conspiratorial shit that floats your boat, and I really won't lose any sleep. But bring it here and I will continue to tear it to shreds, just for fun.
;\)
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#18823 - 01/25/09 03:18 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
H.setesh Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
Ancients also thought demons caused illnesses, and leeches cured them.


The classification system used in biology today is a complete fabrication. Kingdom are split into phylums which are then split into classes and orders and so on. It's made-up, pretend. The classification system used amongst South American indigenous peoples is a system of spirits and demons. Ironically, scientists have found that it is a more effective and more efficient way of classifying nature with the intent of healing the sick.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
the mayans stole their calendar and astrological technology from the red bearded white god from the sea.


I have not read any literature by Graham Hancock that suggests Europeans had bequeathed their astrological technology to The Maya. My understanding is that The Mayan astrological system is unique to their culture, albeit correspondences have been found between it and the I-Ching. In fact, my understanding is that the mathematical prowess of The Maya was unrivaled at the time (circa 36 BC) throughout the world. Where did you read this?

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
California is full of modern day mayans with wailing booger machines on their hips, homemade tattoos on their necks, working for a dollar an hour in the home depot parking lot, and not enough sense, ambition, or fortitude to take care of their problems at home, which happens to be one of the most beautiful and resource rich lands on the planet.


The socio-political problems in Mexico are the result of neo-liberal oligarchs that control 90 percent of the wealth in the country. Half of that wealth has American fingerprints on it. If you don't like Mexicans mowing your lawn, write your representative or vote for the National Socialist Party.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
I do not believe they have ever, at any point in history, had the capabilities of mapping out the constellations, constructing a calendar, or making accurate prophecies. They didn’t even have the effin WHEEL. They ate humans. They were barbarians, despite whatever romantic myth surrounds them today.


The Maya practiced human sacrifice. The Aztecs ate the brains of their victims in times of war. There is a chemical in the brain that will cause hallucinations and feelings of euphoria when consumed by a member of the same species. The Dutch ate juniper berries to the same effect, minus the horrific practice of cannibalization. From a strategic point of view cannibalization was quite effective. The Aztecs were feared throughout the region. Unfortunately, The Aztecs were the real boneheads: all brawn, no brains.

The Maya, contrary to your allegations, had developed a rather technologically and philosophically advanced culture. While The Goths were sacking and defiling Rome (for good reason I suppose,) The Maya were utilizing the most advanced mathematical system in the world and creating works of art that rivaled those of Greece. While Europe slumped into The Dark Ages, The Maya experienced a golden age.

Sacrifice is not limited to South America. The Germanic Peoples sacrificed people to Odin on a regular basis. They chose victims that were intoxicated and full of warmth and good cheer. They never knew what was coming: one moment they would be saying "brost," the next moment they would be dragged to a tree and hanged. I dare say that the Maya performed proper sacrifices: with fanfare, spectacle, in front of the entire empire. I don't condone human sacrifice, but at least The Maya knew how to entertain.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
I am sure there are many cures, treatments, technologies, and practices that are ignored or covered today, largely because there is no profit in them.

...

So call me a pessimist (or an optimist?!) but sadly, I don’t believe anything will come out of 2012 except some panic, small scale rioting, and a bunch of hype. I am much more concerned with a triple front war in the middle east, the rekindling of a cold war because of bush's missile defense program in russia's front yard, and the pending collapse of the dollar.


A triple-front war in The Middle east, the rekindling of The Cold War, and the pending collapse of the dollar are reasons for worry. Yet, I am wary and weary of focusing too heavily upon this subject matter. Some of the greatest achievements throughout the history of humankind have been the direct result of our curiosity and our conceptual faculties. Einstein sucked at math, but - boy - he had one hell of an imagination. The guy speculated on shit that the average person probably thought was a waste of time. Nuclear power provides 15 percent of the world's electricity, by the way.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 03:30 AM)

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#18824 - 01/25/09 03:20 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
By commenting on 'my insecurities' to add muscle to your argument, you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.


Actually, I'm not.

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#18826 - 01/25/09 03:37 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: H.setesh
If you don't like Mexicans mowing your lawn, write your representative or vote for the National Socialist Party.


Dan, here is an example of me using an ad hominem fallacy in a debate with Bacchae. It may also be an example of a straw-man fallacy. I'm also guilty of sarcasm. That's it for the lesson (ad hominem/sarcasm).

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#18827 - 01/25/09 03:50 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
You have a lot of funny beliefs.
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#18831 - 01/25/09 03:57 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
You have a lot of funny beliefs.


Thank you.

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#18833 - 01/25/09 04:09 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
Originally Posted By: Bacchae
the mayans stole their calendar and astrological technology from the red bearded white god from the sea.


Quetzalcoatl... and the confusion of "Cortés" being "his" return.

but I think that was "Aztec"... anyway, I think that's what was being referenced...

It fits with the "calendar idea" anyway.

Ah, apparently the "same" in Mayan civilization... Kukulkán... but I'm not sure about the red beard...


Edited by daevid777 (01/25/09 04:16 AM)
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#18840 - 01/25/09 04:37 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
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Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
no its viracocha (sp?). i havent read that stuff in a long time, but i believe references are in fingerprints of the gods, and heavens mirror. maybe? its been awhile.

hancocks basis for this was in part citing other researchers works, wherein they described this god as a white man from the sea that taught them things, like calendars, but also because of the sudden an utterly unexplainable technological jump they made. one day collecting berries and dancing around a fire, and the next building massive structures and creating civilizations.
he also linked them up with the egyptians, under the same circumstances.
the mayans and aztecs however were lacking certain things that would have been obvious stepping stones to such a sophisticated state, such the wheel.

im going with Atlanteans on this one. and no, not people from Atlanta.

anyway. I find this stuff mildly interesting, enough to crack a few books every now and then, but ultimately its just a diversion. nothing will ever convince me that sophisticated civilization rose fully featured, powerful, and advanced out of the Americas. it just did not happen. yes there were these cities and such, and maybe they did construct them, but they did not create them on their own. this was the backwater of the world until the europeans came.

erego... fuck the mayans and the sacrificial victims they rode in on. ad hominems a plenty.

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#18842 - 01/25/09 04:40 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: daevid777

Quetzalcoatl... and the confusion of "Cortés" being "his" return.



sorry i read that wrong a minute ago. YES! quetzalcoatl and viracocha are the same or at least very very similar. and this is why they thought the spaniard was Him.

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#18846 - 01/25/09 04:52 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
The Germanic Peoples sacrificed people to Odin on a regular basis. They chose victims that were intoxicated and full of warmth and good cheer. They never knew what was coming: one moment they would be saying "brost," the next moment they would be dragged to a tree and hanged.

You are coming a bit on my territory now,
as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain.

 Quote:
The Maya were utilizing the most advanced mathematical system in the world and creating works of art that rivaled those of Greece. While Europe slumped into The Dark Ages, The Maya experienced a golden age.

True, but then again, if they had a "golden age" why do I not see them as wealthy persons in this modern age? If they were that great once they surely must had something to be succesfull that could be used today.
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#18847 - 01/25/09 04:52 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Do you really think that's what they thought, though?

Sometimes I wonder... I mean, these people must have had a bullshit detector, right?

I can't imagine... even for a so-called "primitive" society to not recognize things, or even see things as we might see them today. I do believe our eyes and ears haven't evolved so vastly in 2,000, 3,000, or whatever amount of years.

I guess if you throw in "faith", then we can knock ourselves down a few thousand years... but still...

the Mahabarata?

Sometimes I think the movie "Stargate" might have more knowledge in it than intended... but this is just fanciful speculation.
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#18850 - 01/25/09 04:56 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
True, but then again, if they had a "golden age" why do I not see them as wealthy persons in this modern age? If they were that great once they surely must had something to be succesfull that could be used today.


Maybe they relied too much on their "technology" \:\) ... but that, as they say... is another thread...

Again, as far as the sacrifices go, I think the reference was a little off, I think this might have been a reference to the "Druids", and the "bog-men" they found... didn't you see that special documentary?



Edited by daevid777 (01/25/09 04:58 AM)
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#18853 - 01/25/09 05:14 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
the mayans and aztecs however were lacking certain things that would have been obvious stepping stones to such a sophisticated state, such the wheel.


The concept that the wheel is a requisite for civilization is an ethnocentric point of view and is completely speculative. The whole concept was founded mainly by European archaeologists.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
yes there were these cities and such, and maybe they did construct them, but they did not create them on their own. this was the backwater of the world until the europeans came. erego... fuck the mayans and the sacrificial victims they rode in on. ad hominems a plenty.


A lot of your arguments are hailing from an ethnocentric point-of-view that verges on racism.

 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
hancocks basis for this was in part citing other researchers works, wherein they described this god as a white man from the sea that taught them things, like calendars, but also because of the sudden an utterly unexplainable technological jump they made. one day collecting berries and dancing around a fire, and the next building massive structures and creating civilizations. he also linked them up with the egyptians, under the same circumstances. the mayans and aztecs however were lacking certain things that would have been obvious stepping stones to such a sophisticated state, such the wheel. im going with Atlanteans on this one. and no, not people from Atlanta.


The bits about Atlantis and correspondences between The Egyptians and Mayans is interesting. I've read essays on the topic from various sources. I will need to read more of Graham Hancock's writings. I have always found his theories interesting. I am still skeptical. Popular theory maintains that The Olmec were the oldest civilization in The Americas. Their civilization dates back to 1500BC. Unpopular theory suggests that civilization in The Americas may have predated 1500BC. Most of Europe was still tribal at that time (which - as far as I'm concerned - may have been preferable). Egyptians and Africans (as you may be aware) are not "white." They're "colored." So, it must not have been them that rose out of the sea (if anyone rose out of the sea).


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 05:17 AM)

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#18854 - 01/25/09 05:16 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You are coming a bit on my territory now,
as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain.


My research refutes this. They hanged people . . . as sacrifices to Odin (Wotan).

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#18855 - 01/25/09 05:19 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Must have been my Viking brethren... blonde hair, red beard, sea-fairing...

Why not?

Ever hear about the "Cocaine Mummies"? in Egypt... where they didn't have the coca leaf...

I refuse to believe vast sea travel began at the time "historians" allege. Shit was going on... before, shit was going on...
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