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#18856 - 01/25/09 05:22 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
A lot of your arguments are hailing from an ethnocentric point-of-view that verges on racism.


And what's so wrong with ethnocentrism? Fact is, no matter how civilized and advanced the Mayas were, the Europeans whooped their ass. While they had a spiffy calender that could *ahem* predict the end of times, the Europeans imported doom directly.

D.

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#18857 - 01/25/09 05:25 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Must have been my Viking brethren... blonde hair, red beard, sea-fairing...

Why not?


Evidence. You're begging the question. The Vikinger didn't exist as a tribe until well after The Maya were building pyramids and factoring the swing of the Milky Way into the trajectory of The Earth.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 05:25 AM)

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#18858 - 01/25/09 05:28 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
And what's so wrong with ethnocentrism? Fact is, no matter how civilized and advanced the Mayas were, the Europeans whooped their ass. While they had a spiffy calender that could *ahem* predict the end of times, the Europeans imported doom directly.


You make a good point.

Here's another one: if you take a racist stance you're going to be limiting yourself to a very small tribe. Power in numbers - and you're outnumbered.

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#18859 - 01/25/09 05:31 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
And they did it with "advanced technology"... guns... and disease.

My kids were fine the first five years of their lives... put them in public school, wham! Cold, flu, stomach virus, cold, bronciolitis, cold...

I'm glad for "modern medicine", another "technological enhancement"... I'm not knocking the old ways... I use them as well, just as adjunctive treatment... I can't take any chances.
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#18860 - 01/25/09 05:34 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
While they had a spiffy calender that could *ahem* predict the end of times


For the record - since we've strayed from topic - I want to point out that I don't believe that The Mayans were "predicting the end of times." I think they thought the date was important, although I have no idea why and I don't think anyone does.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 05:35 AM)

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#18861 - 01/25/09 05:37 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
(Ahhh, Mr./Miss Setesh... you have graduated to "moderator", I would like to be the first to congratulate you.)




Edited by daevid777 (01/25/09 05:40 AM)
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#18862 - 01/25/09 05:39 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So what? I'm a very small tribe to begin with. Do you really think anyone in Satanism is there for the huge and happy family feeling? At best, we're tribalists. It's "them vs us" and even in that, it's "me vs us".

So ethnocentrism comes naturally and relativism is just a silly approach on things. I am not too bothered about ancient cultures. I admit it can be interesting to watch or read about and yes they did things that were remarkable during those days and no, we didn't find all the answers on how they did it. So what? Does that imply I have to think of the Egyptians or Mayas as someone at the same level as us? Not at all. Not that I think that highly about our current civilization, mind you.
But I can't put them on a pedestal because they could put rocks on top of another and invented some calenders. They were underdeveloped, we ate them. That's the true story.

D.

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#18863 - 01/25/09 05:44 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Denmark, Norway, Sweden... didn't have people? Or boats? I obviously need to study my history, if that's the case.
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#18865 - 01/25/09 06:14 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: H.setesh
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You are coming a bit on my territory now,
as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain.


My research refutes this. They hanged people . . . as sacrifices to Odin (Wotan).

Back it up please...
I know Odin hung himself to Yggdrasil and gained the knowledge of the runes by this way. But people actually doing it themselves or at least forced by others... Never came across that part yet. I don't give a damn if your research refutes it. If you claim something back it up. I got my copy of the Edda near me.
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#18867 - 01/25/09 07:12 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
During the Maya's preclassic period, we were already using iron, setting up city-states like Athens, Sparta, Rome. China was trading with some states here. Architecture was way advanced. So south-America's advanced civilizations were relatively advanced. Hell, we already had Alexander the Great kicking ass.

The Viking expansion and exploration dates at least another 1000 to 1500 later.

I don't think they had contact with other cultures, at least not with more advanced. If, they might not have used the wheel, but they sure would have used metals for weapons. Personally I consider them a stone age civilization.

D.

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#18868 - 01/25/09 07:56 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Yeah, I mean "Norse" people generally... I know about the "Viking Age"... they're my peeps.

History, is a mystery, when you start going back a few thousand years... especially if that culture didn't necessarily "write it down".

No responses on the Egyptian-cocaine connection yet...
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#18869 - 01/25/09 08:39 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I never heard of it before but read up on it. They seem to have found not only cocaine but also tobacco in Egypt mummies.

It might be possible that Egypt had trade that gave them access to coca and tobacco but it doesn't necessarily imply they traveled there. It could as easily have been China whom already traded silk with Egypt around 1000BC.

Btw, a Mexican-Viking? I suddenly see sombreros with horns.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/25/09 08:45 AM)

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#18872 - 01/25/09 10:18 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:

You are coming a bit on my territory now,
as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain.


People sometimes confuse the Nordic ritual of nailing a man to a tree in worshiping the goddess Freya, insuring bountiful harvests on land and sea. It's thought that the reason the Norse regions so quickly adapted to Catholicism is that when the first priests arrived they were carrying crucifixes, which the Norse tribesmen though to be the equivalent of sacrifices to Freya.

According to Adam of Bremen, the Swedish kings sacrificed male slaves every ninth year during the Yule sacrifices at the Temple at Uppsala. The Swedes had the right not only to elect kings but also to depose them, and both king Domalde and king Olof Trätälja are said to have been sacrificed after years of famine.

The notorious "Bog Man (Fissured Fred)", who's head was found in a Germanic bog had signs of one single blow to the head, which had been severed from his body, and sunk into the bog. This could have been a sacrifice or a simple execution, but
from the BBC documentary on ancient Europe: "Writing much later, in the first century AD, the Roman historian Tacitus tells us that these Germanic peoples executed their social outcasts - cowards, shirkers and those of disrepute - by pressing them down into bogs. So were these bog victims in fact executions and not sacrifices? If such a distinction could be drawn between the two, it does seem most likely that they were sacrifices, because bogs were places where other, inanimate offerings were made."

Human sacrifice and cannibalism is pretty much a staple of most developing cultures in Asia, in Europe, in the South Pacific, In South America, and even in the good ol' US of A, where there is evidence that the Anasazi Indians practiced it, and, in my home town area, the Cahokia Indians of the Illinois and Mississippi Valleys practiced ritual murder and cannibalism with the emergence of the Vulture Cult, which made its way North from Mexico.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#18877 - 01/25/09 11:22 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
So what? I'm a very small tribe to begin with. Do you really think anyone in Satanism is there for the huge and happy family feeling? At best, we're tribalists. It's "them vs us" and even in that, it's "me vs us".


You seem interested in reinforcing the ego and projecting it mercilessly forward in time and space. This seems to be a preoccupation linked to Satanism. Am I correct? If so, being a member of a racist community makes you obsolete (note: I am not suggesting that all Satanists are racist). The majority, the powerful, decide the course of history and you're outnumbered. National Socialism and other forms or racism are no more than memetic sneezes that are doomed to be stamped under the heels of history. It's no skin off my back. In fact, I would like to ship all the racists of the world to Australia and let them butcher each other in The Outback. We can turn it into a reality show.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
So what? Does that imply I have to think of the Egyptians or Mayas as someone at the same level as us?


I never suggested you need to think about anything, but I did lead you to think about it.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Not that I think that highly about our current civilization, mind you.


Agreed.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
But I can't put them on a pedestal because they could put rocks on top of another and invented some calenders. They were underdeveloped, we ate them. That's the true story.


Agreed.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 11:24 AM)

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#18878 - 01/25/09 11:26 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Back it up please...
I know Odin hung himself to Yggdrasil and gained the knowledge of the runes by this way. But people actually doing it themselves or at least forced by others... Never came across that part yet. I don't give a damn if your research refutes it. If you claim something back it up. I got my copy of the Edda near me.


Refer to Jake999's post on this thread. I will conjure my research if need be, but - hopefully - this will do for now.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 11:27 AM)

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