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#18880 - 01/25/09 11:34 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
History, is a mystery, when you start going back a few thousand years... especially if that culture didn't necessarily "write it down".


History is decided by those who can argue it best, and you simply have not presented any sane, rational, reasonable, or logical argument reinforcing your claims that The Vikinger bequeathed The Maya with advanced mathematical/symbological and building methods 1000 years prior to their existence. Are you suggesting The Vikinger traveled through time? The Vikinger never developed an astrological/astronomical technology, barely had a written language, and knew little or nothing of mathematics. Their greatest achievements were developing a pseudo-democratic system, judge-by-jury, and drinking mead.

Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 11:34 AM)
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#18881 - 01/25/09 11:38 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dimitri Offline
veteran member


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
 Quote:
People sometimes confuse the Nordic ritual of nailing a man to a tree in worshiping the goddess Freya, insuring bountiful harvests on land and sea. It's thought that the reason the Norse regions so quickly adapted to Catholicism is that when the first priests arrived they were carrying crucifixes, which the Norse tribesmen though to be the equivalent of sacrifices to Freya.

Second thing for adapting christianity into the German mythology was due to the fact Baldr and Christ had some points in common.

Back to H.Setesh: They say they executed people; social outcasts and so on. Executing vs sacrifice.... there is a difference.
But still waiting for a link from you. Not that I don't believe jake. But I prefer to read it from another source. Little article or so..
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#18882 - 01/25/09 11:40 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
The Viking expansion and exploration dates at least another 1000 to 1500 later. I don't think they had contact with other cultures, at least not with more advanced.


The Vikings actually did travel to North America via Iceland and Greenland. While there they found The Native Americans, who they mistook for elves, dwarves, and goblins. Apparently, they hung one of them. They found him so funny and interesting that they thought to make a sacrifice to Odin to bless the new land. After The Native Americans found the body of their dead tribesman hanging from a tree, a battle ensued. The Vikinger were outnumbered and lost.

This was less than 1000 years ago.

Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 11:43 AM)
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#18883 - 01/25/09 11:43 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Diavolo Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 3773
So not being a relativist makes me automatically a racist? Good to learn something new. If you want to experience the hippie feeling that all cultures are equally valid, as are all humans, feel free but you're not going to find much support here.

I can't subscribe to the current attitude that we must embrace everything out there and be ashamed for all we did in the past.
In reality, relativism is a memetic fart and a pretty self-destructive one.

D.
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#18884 - 01/25/09 11:45 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
So not being a relativist makes me automatically a racist? Good to learn something new. If you want to experience the hippie feeling that all cultures are equally valid, as are all humans, feel free but you're not going to find much support here.

I can't subscribe to the current attitude that we must embrace everything out there and be ashamed for all we did in the past.
In reality, relativism is a memetic fart and a pretty self-destructive one.


Logical Fallacy: Straw-man. I never said that being non-relative makes you a racist. Being racist makes you a racist.
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#18885 - 01/25/09 11:51 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dimitri Offline
veteran member


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
 Quote:
The Vikinger never developed an astrological/astronomical technology, barely had a written language, and knew little or nothing of mathematics.

vs

 Quote:
The Vikings actually did travel to North America via Iceland and Greenland.

Vikings had boats... to build a boat.. well you need the ability to count. And to navigate you must have astronomical knowledge. Rudimentary, yes; but they had it. Unless you believe they travelled by foot to North-America. Or how else do you explain they knew how to return home?
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#18886 - 01/25/09 11:52 AM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Diavolo Moderator Offline
Moderator
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 3773
Go suck a carrot.

There, slap a fallacy on that hippie.

D.
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#18887 - 01/25/09 11:59 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
That was from my post... I seldom rely on the web for my references.

History of the Christian Church by John Fletcher Hurst
World Mythology: A History of Great Myths and Epics by Donna Rosenberg

Got another source for you... but from memory... have to lay my hands on it in my library, and then I'll let you know. (Yeah... I know... I'm an old fart, but I still like books.)
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#18888 - 01/25/09 12:01 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
to navigate you must have astronomical knowledge. Rudimentary, yes; but they had it.


You are correct, although I still don't think they rose out of the sea and enlightened The Maya (which was my original point in that post).

Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 12:04 PM)
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#18889 - 01/25/09 12:03 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Go suck a carrot. There, slap a fallacy on that hippie.


I can use the Vitamin A.
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#18890 - 01/25/09 12:03 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Jake999]
Dimitri Offline
veteran member


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
Donna Rosenberg book...
I think I have that one if I'm not mistaken.
Not really had the time to read/start reading it YET.
I'll take a look for it and put it on top of my "to read list".
After the exams at least. ...

 Originally Posted By: H.seteh
You are correct, although I still don't think they rose out of the sea and enlightened the Maya (which was my original point in that post).

Why should they enlighten the Maya? If I find a new tribe which is pretty primitive I'm not feeling the urge to "enlighten" them.

Edited by Dimitri (01/25/09 12:06 PM)
_________________________
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#18894 - 01/25/09 12:43 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

Why should they enlighten the Maya? If I find a new tribe which is pretty primitive I'm not feeling the urge to "enlighten" them.


It's not that they should or shouldn't; it's that they couldn't. This is an attempt at historical revisionism.

Peace, nigga.
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#18900 - 01/25/09 01:09 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dimitri Offline
veteran member


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
Stupid remark, how do you know they couldn't? That's just an assumption.
And I'm no nigga thank you very much.
_________________________
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

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#18901 - 01/25/09 01:17 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dan_Dread Offline
senior member


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 2010
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Why is this thread still continuing? Are we really arguing about which civilization has brought the most and most advanced technology to the table?

We have instantaneous global communication, air travel, the Internet, surgery, cars, skyscrapers, computers, etc etc etc.

You would have to be a complete idiot to believe people that lived in mud huts and caught their food with spears can rival that just because they figured out a way to keep time.

REALITY. Embrace it.

And for fucks sake setesh, go read and learn what 'ad hominem' actually means. I realize you probably only stumbled across the list of fallacies last week on some random website and had that 'aha' moment, but you are still using the term wrong.

An 'ad hominem' argument is when you use an argument that focuses on the one arguing the point in an attempt to discredit the point itself.

For instance, if I were to say your argument is crap because you seem like a complete flake, that would be an 'ad hominem' In reality, the two things (your argument being crap, and you being a flake) are separate, but true, statements.

See how that works?
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#18904 - 01/25/09 01:33 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Stupid remark, how do you know they couldn't? That's just an assumption.
And I'm no nigga thank you very much.


Show me evidence that The Vikinger sailed to Mesoamerica and bequeathed knowledge of the stars and stonemasonry to The Maya and Olmec a thousand years prior to The Vikinger ever entered the world stage. Your argument is flawed and I can only surmise that you're delusional if you believe it.

Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 01:35 PM)
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