#18905 - 01/25/09 01:34 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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H.setesh
stranger
Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
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And for fucks sake setesh, go read and learn what 'ad hominem' actually means. I realize you probably only stumbled across the list of fallacies last week on some random website and had that 'aha' moment, but you are still using the term wrong.
An 'ad hominem' argument is when you use an argument that focuses on the one arguing the point in an attempt to discredit the point itself.
For instance, if I were to say your argument is crap because you seem like a complete flake, that would be an 'ad hominem' In reality, the two things (your argument being crap, and you being a flake) are separate, but true, statements.
See how that works?
Dan, you use a lot of logical fallacies in your arguments - if they can even be called arguments. This makes you look stupid. You are, again, incorrect.
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#18906 - 01/25/09 01:38 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: H.setesh]
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Dan_Dread
senior member
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 2010
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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What exactly am I 'incorrect' about oh keeper of the ancient knowledge?
argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
Read it twice if you have to.
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#18908 - 01/25/09 01:41 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: H.setesh]
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Dimitri
veteran member
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
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Show me evidence that The Vikinger sailed to Mesoamerica and bequeathed knowledge of the stars and stonemasonry to The Maya and Olmec a thousand years prior to The Vikinger ever entered the world stage. Your argument is flawed and I can only surmise that you're delusional if you believe it.
You are evading the original topic and some of my questions. Also your answers are based on assumptions. Bad thing to do, many bullshit-detectors here. My argument is not flawed, if you make an assumption, I can too even tough it is something impossible.
Anyway, like Dan said: history is history. Now is now, I live in this era/age/time and am happy about it. I don't give a fuck if there are ASSUMPTIONS there were civilisations so-called "more advanced" then ours. It's only something nice to know if it indeed was but that's about it. Do I gain something by knowing so? --> NO
So fuck-off, dream about you historic society's where they can fly on banana peels, and start learning something usefull.
Edited by Dimitri (01/25/09 01:58 PM)
_________________________
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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#18931 - 01/25/09 10:36 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: Dimitri]
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H.setesh
stranger
Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Research.
You are coming a bit on my territory now, as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain. My research refutes this. They hanged people . . . as sacrifices to Odin (Wotan). Back it up please... I know Odin hung himself to Yggdrasil and gained the knowledge of the runes by this way. But people actually doing it themselves or at least forced by others... Never came across that part yet. I don't give a damn if your research refutes it. If you claim something back it up. I got my copy of the Edda near me.
Deities. Mercury is the deity whom they chiefly worship, and on certain days they deem it right to sacrifice to him even with human victims. Hercules and Mars they appease with more lawful offerings. Some of the Suevi also sacrifice to Isis. Of the occasion and origin of this foreign rite I have discovered nothing, but that the image, which is fashioned like a light galley, indicates an imported worship. The Germans, however, do not consider it consistent with the grandeur of celestial beings to confine the gods within walls, or to liken them to the form of any human countenance. They consecrate woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to the abstraction which they see only in spiritual worship. - Tacitus
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html
The gods were not worshipped in temples, but in sacred groves. Sacrifices were offered to them, sometimes even human sacrifices; and their will was found out by means of lots. - History of Germany By James Sime, Edward Augustus Freeman. Pg. 9 - 10
http://books.google.com/books?id=5MEBAAA...-qHzL8E#PPA9,M1
It was believed that Woden delighted in the blood of human sacrifice, and near the temple lay a dark and gloomy wood, where among the tree-roots and from out the moss gleamed white the skulls and bones of victims of his altars. - Stories from German History from Ancient Times to the Year 1648 By Florence Aston. Pg. 30.
http://books.google.com/books?id=cYpCAAA...qHzL8E#PPA30,M1
It is attested in primary sources that sacrifices were made to Odin during blóts. Adam of Bremen relates that every ninth year, people assembled from all over Sweden to sacrifice at the Temple at Uppsala. Male slaves and males of each species were sacrificed and hung from the branches of the trees. - Wikipedia article: Odin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin
When Tacitus refers to Mercury, he means Odin. Mercury would have been the Greek god that closest resembled Odin.
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#18932 - 01/25/09 10:49 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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H.setesh
stranger
Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
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argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
...you could benefit by replacing your feet onto terra firma, and pulling your head out of the clouds.
...
I think you watch too many A&E specials.
So, Dan. How do the above two statements made by yourself "[address] the substance of the argument or [produce] evidence against the claim." It seems to me that they actually "[attack] or [appeal] to a characteristic or belief of the source (me) making the argument." Hmmm.
It's funny. You claim to use logic but rarely do, and you throw it completely out the window when your ego is rubbed the wrong way. Perhaps you should put the brakes on the ego-magick because it's making you look like an ass.
Your ego is getting in the way of your logic.
Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 10:51 PM)
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#18937 - 01/25/09 11:47 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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daevid777
active member
Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
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Jesus...
Anyway, I was throwing out a "fanciful speculation" of mine (as I explained), that there could have been a more "global" exchange before any "authority" wrote it down, or if such things were recorded... they may have been lost. As occurs time and time again in "history".
People with boats (I don't care what they were named), and ocean in between, it was obviously done later, why not sooner? I don't need evidence to speculate...
Oh, how would the Chinese get their hands on Cocaine? Or Tobacco? From what I know the coca leaf is indigenous to South America alone, and would have remained there... unless...
Edited by daevid777 (01/25/09 11:54 PM)
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.
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#18940 - 01/25/09 11:52 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: Diavolo]
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daevid777
active member
Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
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Btw, a Mexican-Viking? I suddenly see sombreros with horns.
I don't "dance on my hat" if that gives you any clues...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
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#18941 - 01/25/09 11:59 PM
Re: 2012
[Re: H.setesh]
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daevid777
active member
Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
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you simply have not presented any sane, rational, reasonable, or logical argument reinforcing your claims
I never meant to imply otherwise... but the way you wrote that, your tone... it hurts, man, hurts.
Their greatest achievements were developing a pseudo-democratic system, judge-by-jury, and drinking mead.
Don't forget evoking fear in most of northern Europe, listening to their wives, killing some priests, and destroying churches... oh, and "bathing" regularly.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.
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#18955 - 01/26/09 01:49 AM
Re: 2012
[Re: daevid777]
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Butterz
pledge
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
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I got my information from:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=399006
Unfortunately the link is only an advertisement for the program. It does have a breif summary. I thought about posting links to the show on youtube, but they are broke down into 8 minute clips and the show was I believe 2 hours. It's easy to find a website saying anything you want but I trust History Channel.
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