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#18905 - 01/25/09 01:34 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
And for fucks sake setesh, go read and learn what 'ad hominem' actually means. I realize you probably only stumbled across the list of fallacies last week on some random website and had that 'aha' moment, but you are still using the term wrong.

An 'ad hominem' argument is when you use an argument that focuses on the one arguing the point in an attempt to discredit the point itself.

For instance, if I were to say your argument is crap because you seem like a complete flake, that would be an 'ad hominem' In reality, the two things (your argument being crap, and you being a flake) are separate, but true, statements.

See how that works?


Dan, you use a lot of logical fallacies in your arguments - if they can even be called arguments. This makes you look stupid. You are, again, incorrect.

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#18906 - 01/25/09 01:38 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
What exactly am I 'incorrect' about oh keeper of the ancient knowledge?

 Quote:

argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.


Read it twice if you have to.
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#18907 - 01/25/09 01:40 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Dan, watch out with the guy, he does research. We merely read books.

D.

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#18908 - 01/25/09 01:41 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3112
 Quote:
Show me evidence that The Vikinger sailed to Mesoamerica and bequeathed knowledge of the stars and stonemasonry to The Maya and Olmec a thousand years prior to The Vikinger ever entered the world stage. Your argument is flawed and I can only surmise that you're delusional if you believe it.

You are evading the original topic and some of my questions. Also your answers are based on assumptions. Bad thing to do, many bullshit-detectors here. My argument is not flawed, if you make an assumption, I can too even tough it is something impossible.

Anyway, like Dan said: history is history. Now is now, I live in this era/age/time and am happy about it. I don't give a fuck if there are ASSUMPTIONS there were civilisations so-called "more advanced" then ours. It's only something nice to know if it indeed was but that's about it. Do I gain something by knowing so? --> NO

So fuck-off, dream about you historic society's where they can fly on banana peels, and start learning something usefull.


Edited by Dimitri (01/25/09 01:58 PM)
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#18931 - 01/25/09 10:36 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dimitri]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
Research.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Originally Posted By: H.setesh
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You are coming a bit on my territory now, as far as I know there weren't real humans sacrified, HOWEVER a doll was made to sacrifice. And this in honour to "German" who was a mythical being linked to rain.
My research refutes this. They hanged people . . . as sacrifices to Odin (Wotan).
Back it up please...
I know Odin hung himself to Yggdrasil and gained the knowledge of the runes by this way. But people actually doing it themselves or at least forced by others... Never came across that part yet. I don't give a damn if your research refutes it. If you claim something back it up. I got my copy of the Edda near me.


Deities. Mercury is the deity whom they chiefly worship, and on certain days they deem it right to sacrifice to him even with human victims. Hercules and Mars they appease with more lawful offerings. Some of the Suevi also sacrifice to Isis. Of the occasion and origin of this foreign rite I have discovered nothing, but that the image, which is fashioned like a light galley, indicates an imported worship. The Germans, however, do not consider it consistent with the grandeur of celestial beings to confine the gods within walls, or to liken them to the form of any human countenance. They consecrate woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to the abstraction which they see only in spiritual worship. - Tacitus

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html

The gods were not worshipped in temples, but in sacred groves. Sacrifices were offered to them, sometimes even human sacrifices; and their will was found out by means of lots. - History of Germany By James Sime, Edward Augustus Freeman. Pg. 9 - 10

http://books.google.com/books?id=5MEBAAA...-qHzL8E#PPA9,M1

It was believed that Woden delighted in the blood of human sacrifice, and near the temple lay a dark and gloomy wood, where among the tree-roots and from out the moss gleamed white the skulls and bones of victims of his altars. - Stories from German History from Ancient Times to the Year 1648 By Florence Aston. Pg. 30.

http://books.google.com/books?id=cYpCAAA...qHzL8E#PPA30,M1

It is attested in primary sources that sacrifices were made to Odin during blóts. Adam of Bremen relates that every ninth year, people assembled from all over Sweden to sacrifice at the Temple at Uppsala. Male slaves and males of each species were sacrificed and hung from the branches of the trees. - Wikipedia article: Odin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin


When Tacitus refers to Mercury, he means Odin. Mercury would have been the Greek god that closest resembled Odin.

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#18932 - 01/25/09 10:49 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
H.setesh Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 29
Loc: Chicago, IL
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.


 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

...you could benefit by replacing your feet onto terra firma, and pulling your head out of the clouds.

...

I think you watch too many A&E specials.


So, Dan. How do the above two statements made by yourself "[address] the substance of the argument or [produce] evidence against the claim." It seems to me that they actually "[attack] or [appeal] to a characteristic or belief of the source (me) making the argument." Hmmm.

It's funny. You claim to use logic but rarely do, and you throw it completely out the window when your ego is rubbed the wrong way. Perhaps you should put the brakes on the ego-magick because it's making you look like an ass.

Your ego is getting in the way of your logic.


Edited by H.setesh (01/25/09 10:51 PM)

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#18934 - 01/25/09 11:15 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Do you read? I already freely admitted that I do that. I just don't give a shit, I'm not bound by any formal rules.

I just think it's funny that you keep crying foul, as if this were some sort of regulated debate, yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that you are doing it yourself.

It's giving me an acute case of the lols
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#18937 - 01/25/09 11:47 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Dan_Dread]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Jesus...

Anyway, I was throwing out a "fanciful speculation" of mine (as I explained), that there could have been a more "global" exchange before any "authority" wrote it down, or if such things were recorded... they may have been lost. As occurs time and time again in "history".

People with boats (I don't care what they were named), and ocean in between, it was obviously done later, why not sooner? I don't need evidence to speculate...

Oh, how would the Chinese get their hands on Cocaine? Or Tobacco? From what I know the coca leaf is indigenous to South America alone, and would have remained there... unless...


Edited by daevid777 (01/25/09 11:54 PM)
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#18940 - 01/25/09 11:52 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
Btw, a Mexican-Viking? I suddenly see sombreros with horns.


I don't "dance on my hat" if that gives you any clues...
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#18941 - 01/25/09 11:59 PM Re: 2012 [Re: H.setesh]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
you simply have not presented any sane, rational, reasonable, or logical argument reinforcing your claims


I never meant to imply otherwise... but the way you wrote that, your tone... it hurts, man, hurts.

 Quote:
Their greatest achievements were developing a pseudo-democratic system, judge-by-jury, and drinking mead.


Don't forget evoking fear in most of northern Europe, listening to their wives, killing some priests, and destroying churches... oh, and "bathing" regularly.
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#18948 - 01/26/09 01:05 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
the Vikings and early Scandinavians had plenty of accomplishments. they were strong, inventive people that flourished in a harsh and isolated land, and through sheer skill navigated their SMALL boats across nearly every major body of ocean on the planet.

the peculiar thing is that today it is fashionable to belittle and dismiss the Vikings. because they were as white as the driven snow.
all northern europeans are treated this way. and that is The Reason. white hate, and self loathing.
the brown people however, are glorified, mystified, and deified. oh look at the their achievements! they made a calendar!!!

if i lived in a tropical paradise and didnt have to worry about freezing to death, starving to death, or drowning to death, and could sit around in a loin cloth chewing stimulants I would make goddamned calendars all day.

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#18951 - 01/26/09 01:23 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
Bacchae, you bring up an interesting point. While pondering your post I realized that it is completely true. So it is very possible the Maya created such a long calendar for lack of anything better to do.

Back to the 2012 theory though, wich is why I started this thread in the first place. Nostradamus predicted that 2012 would be the coming of the end. Believing or not doesn't change anything. Many of you discredit the Maya 2012 and have good reason to. Now what is your take on Nostradamus 2012?

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#18952 - 01/26/09 01:30 AM Re: 2012 [Re: Butterz]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Is this in one of his "quattrains"? (or however you spell it)

I mean, you could read almost anything in those things. I remember getting some false email after "the events of 9-11", regarding a totally cut and paste version of one of these. Did Nostradamus actually just write something that plain, for once?

I mean, he wrote "In the year 2012..."

I'm not doubting you, but I'd like a link or something.
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#18955 - 01/26/09 01:49 AM Re: 2012 [Re: daevid777]
Butterz Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Georgia
I got my information from:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=399006

Unfortunately the link is only an advertisement for the program. It does have a breif summary. I thought about posting links to the show on youtube, but they are broke down into 8 minute clips and the show was I believe 2 hours. It's easy to find a website saying anything you want but I trust History Channel.

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#18982 - 01/26/09 02:01 PM Re: 2012 [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Yeah, the more one thinks of it, the weirder it becomes. At what point did the attitude change from adoring the accomplishments of a nation or a conqueror to adoring the victim and the conquered?

What made nations great in the past was their pride, now it is almost a requirement to focus on the bad things. If Caesar would ride into Rome today, the people would throw tomatoes because he did many bad things to those poor barbarians. They after all could carve pretty symbols into rock.

I'm not much of a fan boy and race, culture and such leaves me pretty indifferent most of the time but hell, if I do have to pick or support one when the time is there, it sure is my own. Screw the rest.

D.

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