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#18190 - 01/14/09 03:35 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3883
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well I don't see it.

I think Satanism is a means to personal growth and success, and I think it is up to the individual what they do with it.

The fact that nobody is doing anything great 'in the name of Satanism' really doesn't effect me at all.
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#18191 - 01/14/09 03:52 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Musicaphillia]
Asmedious Moderator Online
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: New York
There is only so much, that can be said about personal freedom, and ideas. As with describing just about anything, I do believe, that the constant rehashing of certain ideas may appear as stagnant to those who have heard most of the variations of these ideas, over many years. The thrill of finding like minded individuals fades after time. It becomes boring.

However, I do not believe that the actual APPLICATION of free thought, becomes stagnated or boring, because there is so much to think about and consider, on a personal level, in the REAL world, for each individual; and since the real world is constantly changing, one doesn’t run out of “food for thought.” or ways to APPLY “personal freedom.”

I do not believe that people who have differing opinions on certain subjects, cannot get along on a deeper level. To say that each Satanist, is an island, and because some or even much of their opinions differs from the others’, they by nature must remain an island, seems to go against human nature, in my opinion.
Satanism is about embracing human nature, and the animal within us. This would include the natural need for community and bonding with others, at least on a certain level.
Also, wether we care to admit it or not, there is the need in humans, to at least attempt to try rise above those around us. Even in those circles of thought where poverty, and humility is seen as a virtue, members seem to try to out do each other, by being the most impoverished, and humble that they can be, because to do so, is outdoing and being a better martyr, then the next guy.

In order for the human species to survive, nature has provided (I believe all of us) with at least a certain amount of the “sheep” gene, and if we completely deny that it exists, and attempt to become completely isolated, then in the long run we end up harming our selves mentally. I believe that this is one of the most dangerous aspects of any belief system, where one believes themselves to be superior in thought to the rest of humanity.
I have seen many “free thinkers,” who have become “elite” to everyone else. I would often see them strolling around in their pocket-less pajamas, on the mental ward, where I worked. They would see themselves even there, as the most enlightened, and superior beings, while the doctors who led healthy, happy and successful lives, were seen by them, as merely part of the herd of sheepish humans. (Granted, some of the psychologists, and Psychiatrists were kind of fucked up themselves lol )

It seems to me, that Peter Gilmore is telling Satanists, that the CoS has already done all that defines Satansim, and the only room left for the new Satanists, is to stand and applaud their achievements. What he fails to admit, is that he is doing exactly that, which he is preaching against; even though he is just one of many, who are hanging on the coat tails of Dr. LaVey.
I don’t see Gilmore giving up HIS title of High Priest anytime soon, yet he seems to despise others who strive for similar recognition. Non the less, I don’t blame him, since he is just being human.
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#18200 - 01/14/09 07:58 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
If you can't see it, I can't explain it.
I know, sounds like a cop-out but that's how it is.

Perception = reality.

D.


See, D, ther problem is that if perception is reality, and I think that it quite often is, then it's pretty obvious that the problem most people have with Satanism as postulated by LaVey is simply that they think they should be able to add or detract and make it something "special," And that's ok. Build that better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door.

But I've been around a hell of a long time, and I'm comfortable with LaVey's vision and Satanism as it was when I found it's meaning resonating in MY life. And since that time, I've heard and read a LOT of "stuff" people have decided would make people think that their version of Satanism was far superior. For some, it might be. For me, they've all sounded like sour grapes at not having the spotlight, where LaVey DID. These pretenders to the throne might be onto something if they came up with something new... something innovative... something that makes people want to belong. LaVey did. Sure, he might have taken pieces from a thousand puzzles and fit them together, but he did it in a new and attractive way that made sense. There's not a lot of ambiguity. You can take up LaVey and you can tell that it fits, at least for YOU.

In the end, a successful philosophy isn't one that you have to say, "If you can't see it, I can't explain it." I've never had to have anyone tell me WHY with LaVey's words. He does a great job in the initial explanation. It's something I can grasp. It's something that has endured for decades. It's more than words on a computer screen.

Others might find something else just as appealing. There are millions of Jews, Christians, Jain, Moslems, and others. Most are hereditary adherents to their religious views. I got in on the ground floor and found that it's a great place to be. NO other philosophy has even tempted me since.
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#18205 - 01/14/09 10:58 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Diavolo]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Perception = reality.

D.

Very true... Remember this also applies to you... Of course if Satanism is not feeling like the title for you then drop it again as you have before...

To me you are going through the same process as looking for something and seeing it everywhere, just it's working almost in reverse...

~T~

Enjoy life...
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#18211 - 01/14/09 11:49 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Musicaphillia]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Seems like this bullet is fired directly at this site to me...

The use of the adjective “Satanic” with the noun “community” is oxymoronic. ~PHG

One could easily say the same about the use of the word SATAN with the word CHURCH, as in Church of Satan... This is also an oxymoron, is it not?

~T~
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#18217 - 01/15/09 12:44 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: ta2zz]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Honestly, who the fuck cares what Gilmore thinks....

He's not paying my bills, and cleaning up the kitty litter. He's running some dead guys show by default, and without adding anything of substance of his own. Anton's show is over and Peter is just sweeping the floor looking for crumbs.

As Jake said, Anton was inventive enough to create what the bare bones of Satanism is, making things make sense to those who could see outside the box a little bit.

Satanism either fits you or it doesn't.
BUT ...
on that note, it doesn't mean that you sit on your ass and never read another damn thing.

Shit, I have more thumbs up to little Mikey here than Gilmore because at least Mikey is trying to learn more than be all satisfied saying the CoS is all that.

Besides, really, who gives a shit what the CoS really thinks.

Morgan

ps... yeah, whatever, Andre if your ghosting the site again, just remember all the shit you told me.
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#18219 - 01/15/09 12:49 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: ta2zz]
Musicaphillia Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

Seems like this bullet is fired directly at this site to me...


yeah, that is kind of how I saw it when I posted it. Maybe not THIS site specifically, but this and many like it. Personally, I see no harm in a simple online discussion, it's not like the 600 club proclaims to be an online satanic church, or that it is directly affiliated with CoS when it is not.

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#18221 - 01/15/09 12:58 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: ta2zz]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

One could easily say the same about the use of the word SATAN with the word CHURCH, as in Church of Satan... This is also an oxymoron, is it not?


Or, for those of us who actually understand the concept... the first of many creative blasphemies IN the Church of Satan. Oxymoronic? Absolutely. An attention-getting statement in 1966 America? You bet your ass.
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#18223 - 01/15/09 01:43 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Jake999]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Otherwise... "Satanism" is actually a very "simple" philosophy/religion...

It is so very basic in description (as initially defined by LaVey), one quickly realizes the "mystique", the bottom of this "occult" river is actually shallow water. It's a "religion" of actions, not words on paper. Only so much can be written before you realize all the philosophy is covered.

If you want mystery in "occultism", start looking in other directions.
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#18230 - 01/15/09 02:24 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: daevid777]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
"Non-joiners"... then he says... "care to join us?"

Got $200 bucks?

I thought this man was "smarter", but his little essay proves me wrong. I wonder if he was thinking of this site when he wrote about "Satanic Community"...

I don't see any "priests" around, though...
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#18233 - 01/15/09 02:40 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
As I said before in my earlier post who cares what he thinks....

There are some ex-priest here, as well as some current ones that ghost the place from time to time.

If he was smarter, he would have his own instead of riding on Antons' coat tails.

I just don't like him.

M


Edited by Morgan (01/15/09 02:42 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#18236 - 01/15/09 03:01 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: ta2zz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Tsk tsk, perception = reality.

What makes you think I took up the modern satanic title anyways?

D.

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#18237 - 01/15/09 03:09 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's not about spotlights Jake.
I know, the world out there is filled with little super-magisters and mega-magicka and half of them have their own churches, temples and covens which are always larger in presentation than reality but that's all not the point. Like CoS or anything else resulting from there and ending in another -oS isn't the point.

The LHP is a lonely route to begin with and it doesn't stop with LaVey. It might start there for some/most but that's about it. One can hardly presume it's the Alpha and Omega.

D.

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#18239 - 01/15/09 03:20 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
As I said before in my earlier post who cares what he thinks....

There are some ex-priest here, as well as some current ones that ghost the place from time to time.

If he was smarter, he would have his own instead of riding on Antons' coat tails.

I just don't like him.

M


Well, if the Church of Satan were going to survive the death of its founder and move from being a suspected cult to a bonafide religious entity, SOMEONE would have to pick up the banner and move on after LaVey died. LaVey's big mistake, in my opinion, was in not providing for a clearly chosen successor, and laying out exactly what qualities that he would wish in the one to follow him. As it was, and Rich could probably be more erudite in his description of the "end time," for Dr. LaVey, things were hardly organized and ready for a change in leadership at the time of his death, at least in my view, from afar.

The passage of the reigns was pretty much Barton to Nadramia to Gilmore... sounds a lot like the old Tinker to Evers to Chance double-play of baseball, but hardly as successful! Were there more qualified candidates for succession? Could be, but the success of any organization is in its recovery from missteps as much as its capitalization of opportunities. If history shows that the Church of Satan made its biggest mistake here, it will probably surprise no one. But what becomes of it from here on out... that's where the lesson will lie.
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#18243 - 01/15/09 05:54 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Jake999]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
I live in the past concerning the CoS....

It's still LaVeyan Satanism to me, not "Gilmorian Satanism" as I feel that Gilmore is just parroting the bulk of what LaVey said anyway... I haven't heard him come up with any startling new epiphany of his own, not in his interviews, or what's online.
Maybe I'm not looking in the right places..

As you said Jake, someone had to take over if the CoS was going to survive beyond the Doc's demise, and I also wish he had groomed a clearly chosen successor with the qualities needed to take over the helm after he had gone- it sure has caused a lot of discontent in the ranks due to the fact he didn't, I think!

Someone has to do it- I suppose Gilmore could be doing a lot worse, like handing the reins over to Marilyn Manson...

How repulsive of me to say that, I apologise in advance. ;\)
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