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#18281 - 01/16/09 04:44 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
The CoS is nothing to have a quarrel about; it's a dead turtle.

I wouldn't say it's a dead turtle. With some reformations within it can actually become more alive then it is now.
Like the 200$ membership card; why not give some "Satanic" lecture with it and it is up to the participant/ new member to study and to learn. He can add the books to his library, he can learn from them and he has the card of being an official member. If he wants to become priest, let him pass a test for it based on the provided lecture. If he fails, he can try again later and so on. It provides more valuable members with a better grasp on the philosophy and you evade idiots joining the higher ranks.

No, I believe there is still some potential within, the only thing needed is some reformation and maybe a better "leader". They seem to stick in the past while the world is advancing. Maybe it is time for them to consider a new approach.

Aaaah well, I'm not to judge. Never tried to join them and so. And my views are only based from what I heard.


Edited by Dimitri (01/16/09 04:56 AM)
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#18283 - 01/16/09 05:02 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Priesthoods within the Church of Satan are not intended to be passed out for simply passing some test that shows you've read prerequisite texts. If that were the case, we could simply have opened our doors to any clod who can read and remember enough to answer 100 questions.

People seem to think that The Church of Satan is like a Catholic Church or a Protestant Church, where people go to worship on a set day with a priest who is there to minister to his flock. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm sure within groups out there, there are those who get together on a Friday night and do some kind of group ritual, and they may (or may not) have a priest there. But that is not what The Church of Satan advocates or promotes.

A Priest in The Church of Satan has no responsibilities to any "flock" or "gathering" or "grotto." They may, if they so choose, associate with others, BUT the first responsibility of a Priest is to The Church of Satan ONLY. I'm not sure what the current High Priest is using as a benchmark for the granting of the Priesthood, it was based (in my experience) on what you have done or are doing for The Church of Satan to support it AND what accomplishments you have made outside The Church as well. "As above, so below." If you were a bum on welfare, you would not have a very good chance of being a Priest. If you were in a business that might be able to help The Church in some way, your chances were better, but even that was no guarantee that you would gain that position within the organization.

I know it's difficult for people who've only really been exposed to the traditional roles of religious leaders to grasp the concepts, but The Church of Satan isn't like the traditional religions you've known. We don't call our flocks to us. They're on their own.
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#18284 - 01/16/09 05:10 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Jake999]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Priesthoods within the Church of Satan are not intended to be passed out for simply passing some test that shows you've read prerequisite texts. If that were the case, we could simply have opened our doors to any clod who can read and remember enough to answer 100 questions.

I know that, I was just giving an example on what they could do.
Looks like I wrote it a bit wrong.

 Quote:
I know it's difficult for people who've only really been exposed to the traditional roles of religious leaders to grasp the concepts, but The Church of Satan isn't like the traditional religions you've known. We don't call our flocks to us. They're on their own.
Actually it is not that hard to grasp, but people have this "lazy nature" inside them. They (would) like to achieve something without doing an effort. Can't blame them allright.. I'd also like to have an easy and wealthy life, but I know I must work hard to achieve so.
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#18286 - 01/16/09 05:18 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The internet changed things completely.
In the days of yore, before this remarkable and at the same time degenerating piece of mass-communication the situation was completely different. If I look at things here in Belgium, intelligent satanic communication was a pretty pain in the ass to have. What television depicted, in those rare occasions it had a satanic subject, was middle-aged men reciting prayers backwards and peeing on crucifixes. Oh the shock. Even in those days, the only correct word to describe it was pathetic. If there was something satanic to communicate with, it was not unlike the things you see in JoS and other theistic 2cent satanic philosophies. A couple of teenagers with funny names acting as if they were playing in a B-horror movie. Intelligent conversation upon the subject was pretty hard to find, as were books and articles. I remember having to buy the Dutch Playboy to read an article upon the CoS and Lavey. I bought that one for the article indeed. To a degree it maybe was a better period, the difficulty sure pushed one to make an actual effort. In those days grottos or covens or whatever orgs could make the difference.

The internet sure made other things easier. You can communicate upon about every subject whenever you like it. Knowledge is out there to grab and more communication is actually not needed. There is no reason to physically join anything for that specific reason. If there is a function left for any satanic org in these days, I think it is purely a social one. Not unlike the hotrod club or a biker gang. A specific subject to fulfill an apparently human need to be with others.

D.

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#18287 - 01/16/09 05:27 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
If I look at things here in Belgium, intelligent satanic communication was a pretty pain in the ass to have. What television depicted, in those rare occasions it has a satanic subject, was middle-aged men reciting prayers backwards and peeing on crucifixes. Oh the shock.

Diavolo, it still hasn't changed a thing yet...
I'm also belgian and it still is quite hard to find something "valuable" about Satanism. Ofcourse you now can buy the SB and other related books within the bookstores (this if you at least have the ISBN-code... or if you go to some "dark" shops). But still on the radio and television it is almost evaded. I have yet to find a Belgian broadcast about the subject without ridicule notions. Or even a bit of serious like-minded people on the same wave-length. Most Belgian Satanists I encountered were teens or older people trying to show-off or being rebelious. The only 2 I know of who are a bit more intelligent on that matter are you and Fabiano.
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#18290 - 01/16/09 05:38 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That's partly because Satanism doesn't sell here. There is no shock value to it and if it doesn't shock, it doesn't get tv-time. And in my opinion Satanism doesn't need to be on television. What function would that serve? Convince the masses that it isn't as bad as they think it is, or is more serious than the joke many think it is? I think it remains better in the dark.

Religion is not longer a factor in society here. Most people I know indulge their lives. Yes they might have other opinions than me on subjects but they do whatever they feel they have to do. I don't know many people that still think in terms of sin or commandments and if, we all agree they are loonies, even the non-satanic.

It's easy to find good books now, you go to amazon and order whatever you need. Good satanic books and literature is a bit harder, not because it isn't there but because you have to dig through the mud to find a pearl. That's the degenerating part of the internet. In the past I had to wait ages to download 1Mb but I sure didn't get 79.500 irrelevant hits whenever I searched for a certain subject.

I never encountered many Belgians here, in fact, you guys are about the only ones I've seen in a decade that participate. Does it say a lot about Belgians? Maybe, I don't know but I think it says more about our current attitude towards everything religious.

D.

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#18291 - 01/16/09 05:47 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Dimitri]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
The only 2 I know of who are a bit more intelligent on that matter are you and Fabiano.


Then by the mercy of God, may he please help save this soul...

You're talking about bitter oranges and rotten apples here... sorry guys.

whoa... and I mean "Whoa"... and I thought the U.S. was fucked... I can't say anything more... so there...
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#18293 - 01/16/09 05:50 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: daevid777]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Don't you guys have Nina Hagen? What are you complaining about? Maybe that was just a song I heard. Also, Psy'Aviah, and other great music... be happy.
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#18295 - 01/16/09 05:59 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: daevid777]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
She's German, actually was east-German. But we got beer and waffles.

It isn't bad here. There never have been many Euros here. How many Italians, Spanish or Germans do you remember? Not many. There have been more Scandinavians compared to the rest but that's because the satanic metal scene was rather big there compared to other spots in Europe.

The problem is that in most English speaking nations, especially the USA, religion is such a huge factor in society and this triggers an increase in rebellion and due to that new satanists. Down here we aren't to bothered about whom fucks whom, booze and drugs are normal and morality isn't as bible-fixed. Even in politics people are not hiding they are Atheist.
In some eyes we do live a life of sin. I can only remember having met one person in the last decades that called himself a believer in Christianity. The most I meet are either Atheist or can't even be bothered about the subject. And that attitude results in the figures represented in Satanism.

D.

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#18296 - 01/16/09 06:04 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: daevid777]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Ow Daevid by your words I feel enlightend.. I can see god now
... Didn't know he smelled like Sulphur..

 Quote:
whoa... and I mean "Whoa"... and I thought the U.S. was fucked... I can't say anything more... so there...

Don't you worry they still are.. just like the rest of the world. Happy happy fucked family we all are.
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#18297 - 01/16/09 07:03 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Musicaphillia]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It seems as if the decrease in the relevance of Christianity in the West is the true culprit behind the lack of appeal and interest in the CoS, and in "real" Satanism in general. I don't think Gilmore or the other major Satanic "communities" (note: sarcasm) are to blame, and neither is it the fault of online groups such as this forum. If there's nothing to rebel against, why bother? Most newbies take on the title of Satanist because it shocks them, and, possibly, their parents or whomever. But shocking society as a whole? Not so much anymore.

A more "hot-button" banner to wave about would be to wear a shirt that is pro-abortion, or something to that effect. That's a touchier subject to more people than Satanism, as a person does not have to be a religious nut to think that life begins at conception.

Besides, it's not like anything Gilmore has to say will ever have an effect on me, or leave a lasting impression. He can spout off all he wants about online groups devaluing Satanism. But he needs to change with the times, or he'll be left in the dust. The "elite" dust.


Edited by Nemesis (01/16/09 07:07 AM)
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#18299 - 01/16/09 07:43 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Nemesis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
These are some stats from the vatican, so truth is relative but it shows what is happening in Europe for some time now:

 Quote:
On 31 December 2003 the number of Catholics was 1.085.557.000 with an increase of 15.242.000 more than the previous year, by continent as follows: Africa +6.231.000; America +6.678.000; Asia +2.434.000; Oceania +113.000. Again this year Europe showed a decrease in the number of Catholics although less than last year - 214.000 (- 674.000).


Down here priests have to race around the clock to do multiple services at different churches because they are a dying breed.
Religion is slowly getting into the direction of tradition and folklore.

D.

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#18300 - 01/16/09 07:56 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
One question about those numbers:
How do they know so many people have become Catholic or are turning away from it?
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#18301 - 01/16/09 08:00 AM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic community' [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
No idea, they'll probably use the birth register for the ones they baptize.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/16/09 08:01 AM)

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#18309 - 01/16/09 12:25 PM Re: Peter H. Gilmore's take on the 'satanic commun [Re: Nemesis]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

A more "hot-button" banner to wave about would be to wear a shirt that is pro-abortion, or something to that effect. That's a touchier subject to more people than Satanism, as a person does not have to be a religious nut to think that life begins at conception.


Last year some nutjobs came onto campus with a giant posters of aborted fetuses, calling it a "genocide gallery" or something like that, trying to warn us of the horrors of free choice. So I got the idea that me and my equally-nutty friends would make "pro-abortion" posters and stand next to them waving coat hangers. Needless to say, much lulz ensued.

More on-topic, as far as the decline of religion in Europe, it's not quite so in America... Catholicism is still a-growin', but the slow cancer of religious indifference is undermining its efforts.

I think Satanism can still be a powerful tool to help quelch neoconservative evangelism, where an omnipresent "Satanic Panic" mindset is a prominent feature. But its' power to shock in the general public sector has been generally reduced.
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