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#18216 - 01/15/09 12:15 AM Positive Satanism
GarrettProAudio Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 16
This post was made to raise the question of "How has Satanism helped you through a critical time in your life, whether it was making a bright time brighter or making a dark time easier to deal with." I have always been interested in hearing the positive views of like minded people. Especially in this day and age when the media/news has nothing good to say about anything but "doom and gloom" if you will. Lets try to be specific about actual events instead of broad allegations. Fire at will.
This post was inspired by Henrik and his forum topic of "Satanism and Recovery."

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#18218 - 01/15/09 12:45 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: GarrettProAudio
This post was made to raise the question of "How has Satanism helped you through a critical time in your life, whether it was making a bright time brighter or making a dark time easier to deal with.

How have I helped myself through a critical time in my life, this is what you are asking... Going on to further define this as whether a good time was made better or bad time easier to deal with... So now we can simplify this to say tell me about a time in your life........ Satanist... At least this is in 101, I guess...

Maybe you could start and try to lead by example...
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#18226 - 01/15/09 02:00 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: ta2zz]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
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Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
"It" hasn't helped me one bit. Can I get a refund or something?
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#18228 - 01/15/09 02:11 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: daevid777]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Sorry, no refunds. This is clearly stated in the terms of use policy. You may exchange it for something of equal or lesser value though. Provided the packaging has not been damaged, you still have the reciept and it has been less than 30 days since the purchase.
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#18229 - 01/15/09 02:18 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
But what if was a gift?


A gift that cause headaches, social issues, and possible cash and job losses.

M
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#18232 - 01/15/09 02:37 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Morgan]
daevid777 Offline
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Can I "re-gift"? I'm sure someone wants this thing in my head...

Oh, how do I get it out? That could be a problem.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#18234 - 01/15/09 02:44 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
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What if it has minor packaging damage?


Can pick up & removal be arranged?


M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#18238 - 01/15/09 03:11 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: daevid777]
GarrettProAudio Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 16
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
"It" hasn't helped me one bit. Can I get a refund or something?


Its a fair question. Why such an unintelligent answer? Dont mean to be rude but did you happen to notice, that was my 5th post (hence: I am a 'newbie'). Its a simple question geared towards people who have had more experience with this 'religion' than myself. Everything has a learning curve, Satanism is no different. Even the people who claim to be "born satanists" would have never associated that term with themselves had they not Learned how to use computers/internet and read books to conduct research on Satanism. Newborns can't even spell Satanism. In short, my experience is still in the 'researching' phase so I was wondering what the experienced folks have for intelligent information to share.
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#18240 - 01/15/09 03:24 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
Why such an unintelligent answer? Dont mean to be rude but did you happen to notice, that was my 5th post (hence: I am a 'newbie').

Being a newbie isn't very much of an excuse for providing crap...

 Quote:
In short, my experience is still in the 'researching' phase so I was wondering what the experienced folks have for intelligent information to share.

Do your research and read the SB a few times more. Some like to stress out it is a solitary philosopy. Does that ring any bells?

Daevids answer is quite intelligent, take a step back andd judge objectively. If you don't know how to --> Mequa posted once a guide in the philosophy section on how you can "judge" in an objective way.
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#18241 - 01/15/09 04:32 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
spiderbreeder Offline
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Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
I appreciate where you are coming from with this, but Ta2zz is correct in saying that you should lay one of your own experiences on the table regarding how Satanism has helped You through a critical time in Your life- it might encourage someone here to reply to your post in the fashion that you originally intended.

Fire at will. ;\)
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#18246 - 01/15/09 07:16 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
Diavolo Offline
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It is maybe a fair question but constructed in such a manner that well, you'll probably won't get a fair answer.

It's also pretty difficult to answer. It's not as if people in critical moments of their life quickly search for a relief-passage in some satanic self-help book. The very least Satanism should do at every critical moment of your life, is make you realize that no matter what happens, you can't put the blame on some invisible being or a subject like fate and due to that keep wallowing into your grief.
It isn't going to make you free from pain or misery but it should give you a clue that whatever happens, it is all about either someone being responsible, often you, or shit just happening.

And in reality it isn't Satanism making you realize it as much as you realizing it yourself. Satanism might just give you a gentle push into that direction.

D.

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#18251 - 01/15/09 10:31 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Most religions provide that cozy 'help structure' you are talking about. Soft words. Happy promises. Talk of fairness and equality and judgment and just desserts 'in the end'. Maybe hard times are a test from above. Surely 'gods plan' or 'fate' or whatever fuzzy abstract magic that is believed in will make the outcome alright?

In fact, I would say it is this very emotional safety net that attracts many to religion to begin with. Where is a higher rate of converts than among 'recovering' alcoholics or drug addicts?

It is often said Satanism is not for everybody, and that is the truth. It is a rare person that not only does not NEED that emotional crutch, but spits on it. Satanism represents reality as it REALLY is, which is cold, brutal, and detached.

So to answer your question..no. Satanism is not a self help program or a tool to soften the blows life offers. It is a much more useful tool than that.
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#18331 - 01/16/09 10:57 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
ShadowWalker Offline
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While Satanism may not be the emotional crutch that most people are looking for in a religion, it doesn't mean that it hasn't helped somebody somewhere.
I personally have been helped by the Satanic philosophy, because it helped me realize that no matter what happens in life, be it good or ill-fated, if you want it to change you need to do something about it yourself.
You can't just sit around and wait for things to change, or "pray" for them to change, life is about action, and doing. If a person sits around all day on the couch, saying "man I really hope I'm rich someday ," or they pray to be rich it is never going to happen, but if they actually get off of thier ass and get a job, or if they have a job start saving some money than, maybe they will get rich someday. But until they actually take action then nothing will happen.
While you say Satanism isn't a self help program, Dan_Dread, I believe it is. It may not be the traditional self help program: "It's not your fault... It is genetics... It was your parents fault... It's a disease... etc, etc, etc." It can give a person a glib insight into there own problems and make them understand that no one is going to help them, but themselves.
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#18338 - 01/17/09 01:22 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: ShadowWalker]
daevid777 Offline
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Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
...no one is going to help them, but themselves


Yep.

This is particular to Satanism?
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#18341 - 01/17/09 01:35 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: spiderbreeder]
GarrettProAudio Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 16
 Originally Posted By: spiderbreeder
I appreciate where you are coming from with this, but Ta2zz is correct in saying that you should lay one of your own experiences on the table regarding how Satanism has helped You through a critical time in Your life- it might encourage someone here to reply to your post in the fashion that you originally intended.

Actually, now that a look back at how I asked the question I realize that I should have approached the process of asking it differently. It definitely was not intended to make Satanism sound like a "crutch to lean on" when 'life' happens (much like how people use Christianity as a 'crutch' of comfort), but I am very impressed with the recent posts answering the question. They seemed to grasp my concept well even though the question was faulty. Cheers to you all.
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#18342 - 01/17/09 01:49 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: ShadowWalker]
GarrettProAudio Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 16
 Originally Posted By: ShadowWalker

I personally have been helped by the Satanic philosophy, because it helped me realize that no matter what happens in life, be it good or ill-fated, if you want it to change you need to do something about it yourself.



Bingo! This is exactly how I felt about about Satanism and how it has 'helped' me. To put it more bluntly, your answer was basically the concept I was trying to portray with my question. Thank You for understanding what I meant. Cheers \:\)
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Keep your nose to the wind...and if you smell a big fat weasel...kill it and grill it! \:\)

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#18343 - 01/17/09 04:56 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
I personally have been helped by the Satanic philosophy, because it helped me realize that no matter what happens in life, be it good or ill-fated, if you want it to change you need to do something about it yourself.

That's odd, I always thought satanic philosophy was more like "go help yourself" instead of "I'll help you."
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#18344 - 01/17/09 05:15 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Helping yourself is the Satanic philosophy. The realization of that meaning is what helped him.

Geez... does there have to be a confrontation or argument over every damned post? Seriously... this place is getting as bad as most of the other sites out there.
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#18350 - 01/17/09 09:33 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Jake999]
Fist Moderator Offline
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The most terrifying thing that a person can learn is just how much of their own life they control.

Once they realize that they, and they alone, will determine their own success and happiness they suddenly become responsible for their own lives. The horror...
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#18353 - 01/17/09 11:29 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Jake999]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Helping yourself is the Satanic philosophy. The realization of that meaning is what helped him.


And is also what would help most. If more people would remove their ignorance and see themselves for what they are and how they can effect their lives, mankind would be much better off. Just imagine everyone doing for themselves instead of wasting time by praying or wishing something would happen. It's act now or pay later by my book.

And as Fist said, it really is astounding how much of our lives we really control. When you really think about it, we have the power to decide our own future just with the right actions and decisions. It almost always seems that those who realize they are responsible for their own lives and do something to help themselves always seem to have a greater chance of success. For example, why do a rain dance and wait for water to fall from the sky to water your garden when you can use a hose? You'd be saving precious time and avoiding having your garden dry out. Personally I believe self-help is truly something to be valued.

 Quote:
Geez... does there have to be a confrontation or argument over every damned post? Seriously... this place is getting as bad as most of the other sites out there.


I've noticed this as well. I can't say I've never been involved in these arguments you're talking about, so I can honestly say the problem is simply some get it and others don't, and even if they have to have things explained to them they'll continue to argue, either because they won't admit they're wrong or they still just don't get it.
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#18356 - 01/17/09 12:27 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Quote:

If more people would remove their ignorance and see themselves for what they are and how they can effect their lives


You say that like it's possible. People can't change what they are. All they can do, if they are both able and skillful, is steer the direction of the beast. The old cliche 'a leopard can't change it's spots' does hold a lot of real world value.
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#18357 - 01/17/09 12:36 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Fabiano Offline
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Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
 Quote:
...no one is going to help them, but themselves


Yep.

This is particular to Satanism?


No, it's not !

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#18358 - 01/17/09 12:38 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
You say that like it's possible.


Of course it isn't. That's what I meant by the post, that it's too bad there aren't more people in the world that can at least take action and attempt to control themselves. The lack of self-control in my opinion is the reason the world is the way it is today.
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#18359 - 01/17/09 12:46 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Fist]
Fabiano Offline
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Posts: 374
 Originally Posted By: Fist
The most terrifying thing that a person can learn is just how much of their own life they control.

Once they realize that they, and they alone, will determine their own success and happiness they suddenly become responsible for their own lives. The horror...


That's the point! To come to realise that you're alone in a jungle. For some, this is a such unsustainable view that they prefer to look for a shelter rather than learning to dance in the rain...

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#18375 - 01/17/09 08:57 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Mike]
ta2zz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mike
That's what I meant by the post, that it's too bad there aren't more people in the world that can at least take action and attempt to control themselves. The lack of self-control in my opinion is the reason the world is the way it is today.

A world full of chiefs with no indians would truly be a horrible place to be... In other words if there were nothing but leaders with no one to lead, who does the work?

~T~
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#18378 - 01/17/09 09:46 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: ta2zz]
Mike Offline
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Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I didn't say leaders, nor was I hinting that. What I meant was that a world of people who can think rationally on the same level instead of the world being mostly populated by the ignorant would create at least a more productive society. This of course is not the case, nor will it ever be. This would also partly suggest that all men are "equal", which is certainly nowhere close to the truth.

And if there were nothing but those who could do all for themselves, we wouldn't need others to do things for us. Like I said, this concept is bullshit. I was merely pointing out that it's a shame that people with full self-control are the minority, when in fact if they were the majority society today might be very different, perhaps even "better" than it is now. However, no one will ever know.
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#18380 - 01/17/09 11:57 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Mike]
daevid777 Offline
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 Quote:
The horror...


It truly is, when one comes to this realization.

It's only as comfortable as your own skin...
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#18400 - 01/18/09 07:54 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
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Full self-control doesn't exist. The problem with self-control is that you only can have control about those aspects you realize to be controllable.
The aspects of your behavior you don't control are at the same time beyond the horizon of your realization.
It sounds good to say one controls his whole behavior but how could one really know?

D.

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#18402 - 01/18/09 09:20 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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And perhaps self-control is over rated? Man is the 'rational animal' but self-control only serves man in as much it enables him to meet his true aim. And his true aim may not necessarily be found in rigid discipline. To thy own self be true...


 Quote:
Those who restrain Desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained; and the restrainer or Reason Usurps its place & governs the unwilling.

And being restrained, it by degrees becomes passive, till it is only the shadow of Desire.

The history of this is written in Paradise Lost. & the Governor or Reason is call'd Messiah.

And the original Archangel, or possessor of the command of the Heavenly Host, is calld the Devil or Satan, and his children are call'd Sin & Death.


William Blake - "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
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#18404 - 01/18/09 11:16 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Mike Offline
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Posts: 253
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 Quote:
It sounds good to say one controls his whole behavior but how could one really know?


I remember hearing from somewhere that it's been reported that Buddhist monks have been able to control even their own body temperatures. I also remember reading (sorry I can't provide the source) that there have been people with the ability to control their subconscious mind, as well as their dreams and their thought process. If one controls their subconscious mind as well as their conscious mind (meaning those aspects not normally known to be controllable), would it at least be possible to have a higher level of control of oneself that is beyond the point of controlling ones actions and emotions?
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#18406 - 01/18/09 11:30 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
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Higher is such a non-word in this case. You can't compare the amount of control between two people because you simply can't see inside their mind. You can accuse a church-goer of having no control about things while he might play the game and very much control those aspects.
It's the same with Buddhist monks. While you can say he's totally awesome because he can control his body temperature, I can say he lacks control because memes make him impotent.
I think controlling the subconscious is a myth. Lucid dreaming ok, I'm not disagreeing there but to control the subconscious, you'd have to know what the subconscious is doing and if all that information would be processed by your conscious part, I'd fear you'd burn it. If it could handle that stream of information, there hardly would be a need for the subconscious part.

D.

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#18407 - 01/18/09 11:34 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
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I agree that self-control can be overrated, as is the case with rationality. At times one just needs to let go but it still would be sensible to have control over the "let or not let go" part.

I don't think you restrain desire by maintaining enough control to actually decide if you're going for it or not. If you lack that control, well, I guess that's what they call addiction.

D.

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#18408 - 01/18/09 11:50 AM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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As with any art, Blake touches on some key principles - it is metaphor. I think any initiate to the LHP would do well to read the whole poem.

As you (and Blake) point out, control for it's own sake leads to impotence. Mastery without vitality is of little value.

The Buddhist monk seeks self-mastery to disassociate himself from his body because he views his earthly self to have little value. The Satanist values himself and earthly pleasure, and he only exercises control (in it's various forms) as it serves his purpose.
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#18409 - 01/18/09 12:09 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Fist]
Fabiano Offline
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Posts: 374
Lack of control is also impulsivity, and it's useful to be able to control it. Else, you're just controled by your emotions.

This kind of self-control is also part of epicurism, a philosophy which tends to maximize the pleasures...

Buddhists seek for self-control for being able to put in practice his philosophy, for instance cultivating the compassion.

But this is appliable to any philosophy, self-control is a tool for reaching goals. For instance, it is said that Vengeance is a dish best served cold. How do you want to have it cold if you cannot control your impulsivity?

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#18620 - 01/22/09 04:44 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: GarrettProAudio]
Jerry Offline
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 4
in my opinion its not Satanism that helps a person, its the ability to express freely one's views and one's outlook on issues, which some may preceive as Satanism.
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#18633 - 01/22/09 09:49 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Jerry]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Plenty of people freely express their views and opinions. Would you say fred phelps or oprah winfrey are Satanists? Dr Phil? That crazy guy that thinks obama is the antichrist? Street preachers?

Satanists, the real ones, are smart enough to realize 'freely expressing ones opinion' can often be counterproductive or even harmful.

Perhaps you might want to re-examine your opinion.
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#18637 - 01/22/09 11:04 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Jake999]
GarrettProAudio Offline
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Posts: 16
 Originally Posted By: Jake999


Geez... does there have to be a confrontation or argument over every damned post? Seriously... this place is getting as bad as most of the other sites out there.


Yea really... Whats up with that!? It seems like there are too many people that are afraid to admit when their wrong. Its OK to be wrong. Its called 'Learning'.
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#18667 - 01/23/09 05:16 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Everything you do should be calculated to your benefit...even "good deeds" are merely selfish gestures that just happen to have a positive outcome for someone else.

Whether or not I admit my convictions relies completely on whether or not I will benefit from having made them known.

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#18668 - 01/23/09 05:57 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
But of course my dear. Altruism is one of those things that exists in language and concept, but not in reality. Others in this category include infinity, unconditional love, and afterlife.


And of course, 'cui bono?' is always a prudent thing to consider where examining any situation or committing to any action.
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#18669 - 01/23/09 06:07 PM Re: Positive Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Posts: 4997
Not to forget that good deeds might result in someone being looked upon as a good guy resulting again in getting more trust, more benefits and more opportunities.

Purpose is the defining factor in human relations, what is his purpose to me, what is mine to him? That might sound a bit calculative, as if we're always looking for the best deal, but it's how it works in reality. We just don't realize that we're calculating most of the time.

D.

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